Straightest flights - takeoff to cruise to landing

RussR

RussR

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Yesterday I flew from Hutchinson, KS (HUT) to El Reno, OK (RQO). Both airports have runway 17, which we used. We barely made any turns, so it got me thinking and looking up some things:

HUT runway 17 is 173 degrees magnetic
Direct course to RQO is 179 deg.
RQO runway 17 is 176 deg.
(Values are approximate, from the approach procedures.)

So, we took off, turned 6 degrees right, flew for 156 nm, turned 3 deg left, and landed. That's a total of only 9 degrees of turning. And that's pretty much the way it went, we didn't get any ATC headings to fly or other turns. Immediately after takeoff we were pretty much on a 156 nm straight-in final.

Wondering about other similar pairs like this? What's the straightest pair you've ever flown?

I did fly once from HSD to WEA, which COULD be better with only 3 degrees of turning, BUT there is airspace in the way immediately off HSD that prevents the ideal situation.

(Magnetic variation being what it is, really this should be done in True, but Mag is so much easier to look up.)
 
KRNO depart 16L (164 deg), fly heading 165 for 30nm, land on 16 (165 deg) at Minden (KMEV).

This could work, but ATC will usually move you to the west side of the valley after departure from Reno.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
How do great circle routes factor into this game?
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That always twists my brain. If I were to fly direct from Tampa to Anchorage, I'd start out at a heading of 330 and end up flying 260, going straight there the entire time. :eek:
 
DesertNomad said:
KRNO depart 16L (164 deg), fly heading 165 for 30nm, land on 16 (165 deg) at Minden (KMEV).

This could work, but ATC will usually move you to the west side of the valley after departure from Reno.
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That's a good one (in theory)! But I get 167 (166.6) for the MEV runway heading, from the airport diagram. Still, that's a total of 3 degrees, so really good.
 
It won't win for straightest flight, but the straightest one I routinely do is KMMU runway 23, fly 247 for 20 NM and land N51 runway 22.
 
RussR said:
Since a great circle route requires turning every so often, I'd say those routes wouldn't win anyway.
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A great circle route doesn't involve turns unless you're accounting for the interactions between the earth and the atmosphere, Coriolis effect, etc. But in the simplest Earth-is-just-a-sphere approach, a great circle route doesn't include any turns. (To prove this to yourself, take a globe and plot out a great circle route. If you look at the globe from directly above the route, it will look like a line.
 
Okay, so we need a scoring system, obviously. I would say that the further away the two airports are, the better the score. So I propose this formula:

Score = distance / total heading change. A higher score is better.

So my first example, HUT to RQO, gets 156/9 = 17.3
My second example, HSD to WEA, would get 171/3 = 57, BUT since it's not really likely you could ever do it, doesn't count.
RNO - MEV gets 30/3 = 10 (using my value for KMEV runway heading).
 
RussR said:
Since a great circle route requires turning every so often, I'd say those routes wouldn't win anyway.
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Depends how you define turn. You wouldn't be turning the aircraft. But the coordinate system would be turning around you.
 
mcmanigle said:
A great circle route doesn't involve turns unless you're accounting for the interactions between the earth and the atmosphere, Coriolis effect, etc. But in the simplest Earth-is-just-a-sphere approach, a great circle route doesn't include any turns. (To prove this to yourself, take a globe and plot out a great circle route. If you look at the globe from directly above the route, it will look like a line.
Click to expand...

Correct in the physics or geometry sense. But if you're doing this route:

Salty said:
If I were to fly direct from Tampa to Anchorage, I'd start out at a heading of 330 and end up flying 260, going straight there the entire time. :eek:
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You'd start off flying heading 330. If you kept flying heading 330, you wouldn't end up in Anchorage. An autopilot in heading mode wouldn't take you there. Maybe it's a definition thing. If your heading is changing in reference to north, that seems to me to be for aviation purposes a "turn". But of course, your opinion may differ. It's not like this is high-wing vs low wing or anything important like that!

But I don't know how to account for that in this very important game...
 
RussR said:
Correct in the physics or geometry sense.

But if you're doing this route: [[ direct from Tampa to Anchorage ]]

You'd start off flying heading 330. If you kept flying heading 330, you wouldn't end up in Anchorage. An autopilot in heading mode wouldn't take you there. Maybe it's a definition thing. If your heading is changing in reference to north, that seems to me to be for aviation purposes a "turn". But of course, your opinion may differ. It's not like this is high-wing vs low wing or anything important like that!

But I don't know how to account for that in this very important game...
Click to expand...

I guess in aviation purposes I consider a "turn" something that would require a bank or yaw movement in otherwise still air. For example (again, assuming no air movement), if you fly to the North Pole at a heading of 360, and then pass the North Pole, you are flying south at a heading of 180, but I wouldn't say you made a "180 turn" if you just kept flying straight...
 
mcmanigle said:
I guess in aviation purposes I consider a "turn" something that would require a bank or yaw movement in otherwise still air. For example (again, assuming no air movement), if you fly to the North Pole at a heading of 360, and then pass the North Pole, you are flying south at a heading of 180, but I wouldn't say you made a "180 turn" if you just kept flying straight...
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Although if you were to start at the equator, fly over the pole, and end at the equator, you've made a 180 degree turn in the Z axis. :)
 
GaryM said:
Although if you were to start at the equator, fly over the pole, and end at the equator, you've made a 180 degree turn in the Z axis. :)
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That's true! I was about to add seventeen caveats about the inherent issues with projecting a 3d(ish) world onto a 2d plane when defining terms like "turn" and "accelerate" and "velocity," but then thought better of it. And wasn't the whole "if I fly halfway around the world, will my attitude indicator say I'm upside down?" question covered somewhere on here already? :eek:
 
Here's one I've done a bunch:
Depart KLAR runway 21, Fly 541 nm on a heading of 230, then land RWY 25 at KVGT.

ww
 
GaryM said:
Although if you were to start at the equator, fly over the pole, and end at the equator, you've made a 180 degree turn in the Z axis. :)
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Right. Kinda like Dick Rutan and Voyager holding the record for largest outside loop.
 
mcmanigle said:
I guess in aviation purposes I consider a "turn" something that would require a bank or yaw movement in otherwise still air. For example (again, assuming no air movement), if you fly to the North Pole at a heading of 360, and then pass the North Pole, you are flying south at a heading of 180, but I wouldn't say you made a "180 turn" if you just kept flying straight...
Click to expand...
I would consider that a turn requires the flight vector to change, which it wouldn't. You're not accelerating horizontally at all.
 
Probably 10 years ago or so... cold front passed through Boerne Stage 5C1 area... It was VERY, VERY windy and I was bored...

Took out the Cub and managed to get airborne, took full throttle to proceed down the runway. Shortest takeoff, evah. Climbed straight ahead for maybe 5-6 minutes, got up to something like 3000', then throttled back and kept it just above stalling speed. Drifted backwards while maintaining heading for 3-4 miles, reduced power to descend, then had to firewall it to crawl forwards. Landed on the grass in a howling wind, could barely taxi and a few friends came out to help keep the plane on the ground on the taxi. I didn't get a copy, but someone out there took video. Never changed heading.
 
Runway 17 at ONZ (currently closed, 167 true), 37 nm 167 degrees magnetic, runway 18 at PCW (178 true). Magnetic variation 7-8 degrees West. I'll let you do the math.
But I go the long way around to avoid Canada and 36 nm over open water.
 
Wilywapiti said:
Here's one I've done a bunch:
Depart KLAR runway 21, Fly 541 nm on a heading of 230, then land RWY 25 at KVGT.

ww
Click to expand...

That's such a long distance it may override the relatively great difference in runway heading. Let's see.

distance = 541
takeoff heading = 217
course = 230
landing heading = 257

541/40 = score of 13.5

So, the runway heading difference takes it out of the running... :O

But that's far enough that the magnetic variation becomes a factor, also the great circle route issue that I don't know how to deal with in this.
 
RyanShort1 said:
Probably 10 years ago or so... cold front passed through Boerne Stage 5C1 area... It was VERY, VERY windy and I was bored...

Took out the Cub and managed to get airborne, took full throttle to proceed down the runway. Shortest takeoff, evah. Climbed straight ahead for maybe 5-6 minutes, got up to something like 3000', then throttled back and kept it just above stalling speed. Drifted backwards while maintaining heading for 3-4 miles, reduced power to descend, then had to firewall it to crawl forwards. Landed on the grass in a howling wind, could barely taxi and a few friends came out to help keep the plane on the ground on the taxi. I didn't get a copy, but someone out there took video. Never changed heading.
Click to expand...

Let's see - distance = 0, heading change = 0, so score = 0/0. Undefined! You broke the scoring system...
 
RussR said:
But that's far enough that the magnetic variation becomes a factor, also the great circle route issue that I don't know how to deal with in this.
Click to expand...

And all the while the earth is rotating under the aircraft while it is en route. North Las Vegas is moving at about 837 mph, while Laramie is moving at about 780 mph (cosine of latitude x rotational speed at the equator).

Makes my head hurt. I think I'll just follow the magenta line.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
How do great circle routes factor into this game?
Click to expand...
My good friend Steve earlier this summer flew his C182T on what he believes to be the longest great circle route (with a few overnights) within the lower 48 states...

IMG_2054.PNG
 
RussR said:
Dang, man! No, I did not search for this topic first... :D

Yeah, @Brad Z , I'm asking literally the exact same question...
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I thought this topic sounded familiar!

Basically, if you can complete the cross-country flight without removing the control gust lock, you win.
 
Brad Z said:
I thought this topic sounded familiar!

Basically, if you can complete the cross-country flight without removing the control gust lock, you win.
Click to expand...
Except you'd guaranteed lose if the gust lock stayed in.
 
RyanShort1 said:
Probably 10 years ago or so... cold front passed through Boerne Stage 5C1 area... It was VERY, VERY windy and I was bored...

Took out the Cub and managed to get airborne, took full throttle to proceed down the runway. Shortest takeoff, evah. Climbed straight ahead for maybe 5-6 minutes, got up to something like 3000', then throttled back and kept it just above stalling speed. Drifted backwards while maintaining heading for 3-4 miles, reduced power to descend, then had to firewall it to crawl forwards. Landed on the grass in a howling wind, could barely taxi and a few friends came out to help keep the plane on the ground on the taxi. I didn't get a copy, but someone out there took video. Never changed heading.
Click to expand...
This reminds me of the day I tried to leave Fort Dodge in the Champ. I was waiting out some weather and it finally cleared. I got off the ground, climbed to my lowish cruising altitude, established myself in cruise, and then checked when I would get to the next airport on my long journey home. It was going to be a little after sunset and I didn’t have a working radio, or any night landings in a taildragger (most time was in a Cub with no electrical system), or more than 1 landing in that plane, or any night time without gyro instruments. So I decided to turn around and head back to Fort Dodge for the night.

And after all of that flying and thinking, I had barely crossed the airport fence. Needless to say, the return trip was a lot faster than the outbound leg.
 
GaryM said:
And all the while the earth is rotating under the aircraft while it is en route. North Las Vegas is moving at about 837 mph, while Laramie is moving at about 780 mph (cosine of latitude x rotational speed at the equator).

Makes my head hurt. I think I'll just follow the magenta line.
Click to expand...
Based on the rest of your post, you’re actually chasing the magenta line more so than following it.
 
My most common fuel run is 52F Rwy 35 to GLE rwy36

36.jpg
 
Take off east from BHM, landing east in ATL, early departure. ATC would usually let us fly 250 to the marker.

Idle boards at IAF, gear full flaps on speed. Then retract the boards about 20 kts above vref, you’d just make stabilized approach by 1000 agl.

Ride the clacker both up and down... it’s a SHORT flight in a 727.
 
Alton (KALN) near St. Louis to Mt Olive (KOLV) Mississippi just south of Memphis.

depart RY17 @KALN turn 1 degree fly 235nmi land RW18. Magvar change is zero too

score = 235
 
Initial Fix said:
Alton (KALN) near St. Louis to Mt Olive (KOLV) Mississippi just south of Memphis.

depart RY17 @KALN turn 1 degree fly 235nmi land RW18. Magvar change is zero too

score = 235
Click to expand...

I get ALN runway 17 = 174 deg
Course = 179 deg
OLV runway 18 = 181 deg
For total turn of 7 degrees, and a score of 33.6. Really good though!

And I think it would be the winner so far, but I have to ask if it would be realistic to expect to actually fly this route in a straight line. I see it cuts through the NQA Class D, and a few miles later you'd have to either get a Class B clearance (and no vectors), or cross over some antenna towers with 400-ish ft clearance (and violate the minimum altitude rules).

But if you've actually done this flight in a straight line, cool!
 
@RussR thanks for the math check, I shouldn’t do math in public at 6am. You can stay outside and below the classB and miss the the class D for St louis downtown and Scott AFB.
 
Initial Fix said:
@RussR thanks for the math check, I shouldn’t do math in public at 6am. You can stay outside and below the classB and miss the the class D for St louis downtown and Scott AFB.
Click to expand...

My interest is more on the Memphis end of it, can you really fly straight-in to OLV runway 18 and not have to maneuver either to avoid the NQA Class D, the antenna towers, or enter the Class B and get vectored for traffic?
 
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