Straight in

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falcon9999

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falcon9999
What's the deal with so many people going straight in? So at my airport in training there is likely 2 or 3 in the pattern at least when I'm up and often it'll be... inbound of landing, i hear all of the guys in the pattern think I can sneak in straight in, did that lead to a crash? Like why do people keep doing this, in an hour lesson I will hear this at least once or twice.
 
I do straight ins all the time when traffic permits. What’s the problem?
 
falcon9999 said:
What's the deal with so many people going straight in? So at my airport in training there is likely 2 or 3 in the pattern at least when I'm up and often it'll be... inbound of landing, i hear all of the guys in the pattern think I can sneak in straight in, did that lead to a crash? Like why do people keep doing this, in an hour lesson I will hear this at least once or twice.
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fast forward to 4:10... or watch the whole thing. This is the single best video on pattern flying ever released. I've posted it here a few times, so pardon to the others
 
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I flew straight in twice this week to the same airport. Listen as far out as you can, I make a call at 15mi out if I intend to do a straight in, and then the usual 10, 4, etc, declaring straight in. If I hear anyone in the pattern, I switch to entering the pattern with them. Nobody there? Straight in.
 
RyanB said:
I do straight ins all the time when traffic permits. What’s the problem?
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I mean like I'm in the pattern calling downwind and about to turn base and I get 3 mile final straight in, so I guess I'm just going to extend or get run over. I mean if there's no one that makes sense way more efficient but this weekend I guess 3 or 4 in the pattern in different areas, quite busy and then hear a straight in..
 
Tantalum said:
fast forward to 4:10... or watch the whole thing. This is the single best video on pattern flying ever released. I've posted it here a few times, so pardon to the others
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oh my gosh that's hilarious. I skipped like you said but i'm going back to watch the whole thing.
 
falcon9999 said:
I mean like I'm in the pattern calling downwind and about to turn base and I get 3 mile final straight in, so I guess I'm just going to extend or get run over. I mean if there's no one that makes sense way more efficient but this weekend I guess 3 or 4 in the pattern in different areas, quite busy and then hear a straight in..
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Ah, I gotcha. That’s just inconsiderate, but it happens, just like you’ll have people pull out right in front of you or fail to yield at roundabouts when driving. You’ve gotta watch those guys…
 
I was flying into my home base from the SE on Saturday and the winds favored 35. I'm in a 182 and coming down, so I'm moving at a pretty good clip. I'm about 12 miles out when I hear an Arrow from a local flight school say he's 5 miles East, going to cross over mid-field and enter on the teardrop. I thought about it and figured the best way for me to enter was to do a straight in so there would be no conflict. About the time I was on a 5 mile straight in, he was passing over mid-field. I was on a 1 mile final by the time he said he was on a 45. I made the first turn off as he was calling downwind. Then he said he was doing a 360 for spacing. Since there was nobody else in the area on the radio, I asked him if I caused him to do a 360. He said no, not really, he was just having his student do short approaches and wanted him to have more time to think about it.

In this case, I think my straight-in approach was justified, simple, and maybe even the safest way to avoid the other traffic.
 
Lowflynjack said:
I was flying into my home base from the SE on Saturday and the winds favored 35. I'm in a 182 and coming down, so I'm moving at a pretty good clip. I'm about 12 miles out when I hear an Arrow from a local flight school say he's 5 miles East, going to cross over mid-field and enter on the teardrop. I thought about it and figured the best way for me to enter was to do a straight in so there would be no conflict. About the time I was on a 5 mile straight in, he was passing over mid-field. I was on a 1 mile final by the time he said he was on a 45. I made the first turn off as he was calling downwind. Then he said he was doing a 360 for spacing. Since there was nobody else in the area on the radio, I asked him if I caused him to do a 360. He said no, not really, he was just having his student do short approaches and wanted him to have more time to think about it.

In this case, I think my straight-in approach was justified, simple, and maybe even the safest way to avoid the other traffic.
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i think that one is correct, also adsb does provide me with more situational awareness than I had when i started training 20 years ago
 
WTF, more listening, less complaining. Getting worked up about it is going to get you killed. There are plenty of jerks who fly normal patterns. Extending costs you about 3 minutes, literally, not worth the aggravation. Focus on being a good pilot rather than ruminating on what others are doing.
 
Tantalum said:
fast forward to 4:10... or watch the whole thing. This is the single best video on pattern flying ever released. I've posted it here a few times, so pardon to the others
Click to expand...

To be clear, all you need to know about straight-in approaches is covered precisely and concisely from 5:08 to 5:12. That's right, just 4 seconds of info is all you need.
 
If you do any Instrument flying or practice approaches you end up landing straight in. Pilots on long cross countries use the straight in quite often.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Excellent. I'll run all my pattern entries by you before doing them ;)
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that sounds fine. as I have now completed my student solo this weekend, I should absolutely be the first person you call when you are doing that :)

I should probably not watch all of the youtubers that have the accident videos it's giving me a complex.
 
falcon9999 said:
that sounds fine. as I have now completed my student solo this weekend, I should absolutely be the first person you call when you are doing that :)

I should probably not watch all of the youtubers that have the accident videos it's giving me a complex.
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Dan Gryder is the only YouTuber you need to follow. Don't run from the banjo music




......runs for cover




also, /s
 
I did straight in approaches if traffic warranted, and a couple times did them to get out of the way of other traffic. I'm happy to give way to jets, they burn more fuel than me. Always have to be watchful for IFR traffic, they do straight ins too.
 
RyanB said:
I do straight ins all the time when traffic permits. What’s the problem?
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When traffic permits is the key.

Don't be like the knucklehead at ONX on Saturday that insisted on landing straight in on 23 with multiple airplanes in the pattern for 5.

I was half tempted to go ahead and takeoff from 5 (I had told him that traffic was landing and departing 5, but figured that going head to head with someone that clueless was not the best idea....
 
falcon9999 said:
I mean like I'm in the pattern calling downwind and about to turn base and I get 3 mile final straight in, so I guess I'm just going to extend or get run over. I mean if there's no one that makes sense way more efficient but this weekend I guess 3 or 4 in the pattern in different areas, quite busy and then hear a straight in..
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Why does it matter if you have to make room for them in the downwind instead of on final? Either way, you have to adjust for them. Frankly, straight in keeps them in your hair for far less time than any other approach would.
 
Salty said:
Why does it matter if you have to make room for them in the downwind instead of on final? Either way, you have to adjust for them. Frankly, straight in keeps them in your hair for far less time than any other approach would.
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If they are straight in they generally have less opportunity to adjust based on the traffic in the pattern. If they are entering on a 45 to a downwind, they can more easily vary their arrival to sequence in between other traffic. Sometimes, straight in might still be fine, but that's at least a potential benefit.
 
Again? Straight-ins are just fine. Communicate and aviate. It's not a problem if everyone is talking. If you are training or arriving IFR, you are almost always going to be going straight-in. Plus there is no reason to avoid straight-ins VFR if it can be done safely. For turbine arrivals, it might be safer for them to arrive expeditiously straight-in rather than barge around the pattern. I fly at a rural airport that can be pretty busy with a mix of turbine aircraft, pistons (various sizes), and glider operations. You can talk and make it work.
 
falcon9999 said:
What's the deal with so many people going straight in? ..
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Hi.
It's Not complicated. Anyone that does a Straight in with other acft in the Pattern, and not specifically given priority, should have their certificate removed. There is no good way to know what someone coming from behind / on a straight in does.
They need to be reported, if you had to take evasive action, like having to change direction from Base to Down wind to give them priority, get the N number down and report them to FAA.
FAA needs to start doing something about it, there are just too many DoDo birds out here now days that think they are special.
 
bluesideup said:
Hi.
It's Not complicated. Anyone that does a Straight in with other acft in the Pattern, and not specifically given priority, should have their certificate removed. There is no good way to know what someone coming from behind / on a straight in does.
They need to be reported, if you had to take evasive action, like having to change direction from Base to Down wind to give them priority, get the N number down and report them to FAA.
FAA needs to start doing something about it, there are just too many DoDo birds out here now days that think they are special.
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What a great idea. Let’s advocate that the Faa give out violations for random reports of bad behavior. What could possibly go wrong with that. :rolleyes:
 
chemgeek said:
Again? Straight-ins are just fine. Communicate and aviate. It's not a problem if everyone is talking. If you are training or arriving IFR, you are almost always going to be going straight-in. Plus there is no reason to avoid straight-ins VFR if it can be done safely. For turbine arrivals, it might be safer for them to arrive expeditiously straight-in rather than barge around the pattern. I fly at a rural airport that can be pretty busy with a mix of turbine aircraft, pistons (various sizes), and glider operations. You can talk and make it work.
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I think a turbine doing a straight in, communicated and working with people in the pattern is better than them doing the pattern, at 500 feet above everyone else and then descending through the pattern altitude.

When I did my RH ratings, at most airports we flew a Right pattern to separate from the fixed wing. It worked fine, as everyone worked together.

Yes, sometimes you will have to extend downwind a bit, or slow down on downwind, or even speed up and fly a short, fast pattern.
 
I'm not sure that joining the conga line of planes in downwind is any safer than clearly communicating your intentions of making a straight-in. Especially when there are planes of different speeds/capabilities in the pattern. If you're in a Lancair do you really want to be low and slow behind a 152? Should a Piper Matrix queue up behind a student flown 172? Is that really safer or more organized? I don't think so.

My procedure for doing straight in if its busy is just a quick to-the-point announcement 10+ miles out that I'm on a straight-in final. Then 5 miles out. Then 2 miles. Then short final. At any time I stand ready to scrap the landing and go around if someone cuts in front or something. And goes without saying but I keep my eyes peeled.

A much more practical problem I see at busy, non-towered airports is people who don't use the active runway because its further from their FBO/hangar/whatever. Coordinating that with a bunch of people doing touch-and-goes is more dangerous than a straight in, IMHO.
 
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Tom Wells said:
If you're in a Lancair do you really want to be low and slow behind a 152? Should a Piper Matrix queue up behind a student flown 172?
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If you can't fly a Pattern, with any acft in it, get some more training or do something else, flying is not for people that think they own the sky and have others bow to their superior lack of knowledge.
 
bluesideup said:
If you can't fly a Pattern, with any acft in it, get some more training or do something else, flying is not for people that think they own the sky and have others bow to their superior lack of knowledge.
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Was that post meant to be ironic?
 
In light of all the conversations about pattern entries and straight ins, I have decided until further notice than I will fly a vertical pattern, first overflying the runway downwind, then a Split-S to final. That should deconflict me from other traffic, right?
 
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