A friend of mine has a neat little Champ he’s owned for quite a while. He just got the airplane out of annual last month. I didn’t humiliate him with questions, but the logs were stolen. He’s pretty sick about it and has lost interest in the airplane. I believe his age is also another reason for “ losing interest “ in flying. He’s asked me if I want it. Honestly, yes. He’s taken good care of it and it’s a neat little airplane. But obviously the price needs to reflect missing logs too. Fortunately they didn’t get the airworthiness certificate. So that’s one less thing I would need. I know rebuilt logs kill the value. I get it. But if my IA does the annual, complies with all AD’s from the beginning…….. I’d be ok with that. My real question is let’s say an average Champ sells for $25k, how bad does the missing logs hurt it. In other words how do I come up with an offer. I know this is still a vague question. The IA did keep a copy of the last entry proving the hours were 277 on the last OH and 2200 on the Airframe. So at least there’s some legally binding numbers somewhere. Thanks all.
Stolen logs, depreciated value questions
- Thread starter Skip
- Start date
Regardless what the common thoughts are on this I've found its more specific to the person and aircraft how the value is affected. Know of a number of old aircraft with a single logbook that kept their value.
But if you want a number, one method is to value the aircraft normally then subtract cost to annual and include all AD and SB research cost. I include the SBs to determine current aircraft configuration especially on older ones.
Now with your run of the mill Cessna or Piper sure book history can have an affect especially when you have several to pick from. But theres no regulatory requirement to keep most of that info.
Have your buddy buy a new logbook and make an entry attesting to the aircraft total time and have it notarized as per the AC guidance. Do the same for the engine if applicable. Then make the deal and go fly.
That’s a good way to justify the devaluation. Thanks.
Doc Holliday
En-Route
Just curious, does the airplane have the original dataplate?
Yes. He’s owned it for 33 years. It’s always been in annual and flying.
KRyan
Pre-takeoff checklist
Ok, I'm curious. Why would anyone steal log books? I've heard about instances where mechanics held logs "hostage," but other than that, why steal logs? It's not like they'd be great coffee table books.
They would often be kept in a secure location. Valuables are also commonly kept in the same secure locations. IE: a safe. If the safe was stolen....
Doc Holliday
En-Route
Lots of reasons actually. Bitter ex wives, PO'd former employees, a vendor that didn't get paid to name a few.
The other reason logs get stolen, or disappear, is when the owner knows there is information contained within that could be damaging if uncovered.
Lots of layers to the onion.
Flight bay along with a few other things in an apparent office break in. I didn’t ask much more than that. It sounds like they were with the mechanic and the office was broken into after the annual. Lots stolen, those happened to be among the stuff in the file cabinet I’m guessing. I’ve always held my
Logs, had them signed, stickies put in them… and take them back immediately for this very reason.
Pinecone
En-Route
But in the case, it will already have a new annual and compliance with ADs documented.
But this is why I do NOT give me logs to the shop. I give them a PDF of the logs. And then they give me a sticker I can put in the logbooks, scan and update the PDFs with the new pages.
DaleB
Final Approach
I’m probably in a small minority here, but the logbooks for a Champ would be, to me, more a historical curiosity than anything else. If there’s enough to document any ADs and the condition… great. The only sticky part might be documenting any STCs that were installed over the years. Or would those be in the FAA records available on CD?
Odds are good that it’s a 77 year old airplane. Personally, I’d be more interested in, “Is it in a known and legal state now?” Than, “Does it have a detailed record of everything that’s happened since 1946?”
Odds are good that it’s a 77 year old airplane. Personally, I’d be more interested in, “Is it in a known and legal state now?” Than, “Does it have a detailed record of everything that’s happened since 1946?”
Zeldman
Touchdown! Greaser!
Once in 1997 I looked at log book #1 for a 1947 C-120. It noted an engine change in 1948, 125 total hours. No reason given for the change.
Like stated, historically interesting but no bearing on the value of the plane.
