Still confused logging IFR training in sim?

[LastXdeth]

I apologized if this question has been asked too many times. I did my best to interpret part 61.51 and 1.1 for verbatim definitions, but I often find them vague.

Anyways, I am a private pilot that had two IFR training flights in the sim last week, specifically in the Redbird SD (an AATD). I know I can log simulated instrument (hood), but what else can I log? I know I can't log ASEL time. How about:

• Takeoffs and Landings?
• Dual Received time?
• PIC time?
• Total time?

 

[mcmanigle]

My understanding is:

Takeoffs and Landings?

Not unless it's a full-motion simulator and you actually fly the landing.

Dual Received time?

Yes.

PIC time?

No.

Total time?

No. (Well, "total time" is not really a thing, but most people mean "flight time" when they say "total time" so no.)

 

[RingLaserGyroSandwich]

You can log the total “Hobbs” as sim time as well.

 

[AggieMike88]

Make sure you either obtain a photocopy of the sim owners Letter of Authorization or take a photo of it. Then keep it with your logbook. It should be posted on the wall near the sim.

This letter is what authorizes pilots to use it for loggible time. I have included an example.

keeping this with your logbook will help "defend" the time if anyone was to question it.

 

[AggieMike88]

Also, read this article from Redbird on how to properly record your time.

https://landing.redbirdflight.com/posts/logging-time-under-the-new-revisions-to-part-61

 

[RingLaserGyroSandwich]

Make sure you either obtain a photocopy of the sim owners Letter of Authorization or take a photo of it. Then keep it with your logbook. It should be posted on the wall near the sim.

This letter is what authorizes pilots to use it for loggible time. I have included an example.

keeping this with your logbook will help "defend" the time if anyone was to question it.

View attachment 82515 View attachment 82516

I’ve seen this suggested a couple of times before but I don’t understand why it’s necessary. Of course verifying the sim is approved for logging time is good. What could happen if you don’t keep a record? I don’t keep records which show a plane’s airworthiness certificate was valid the day I flew it.

There may be a good reason, or a good story to show why it’s a good idea, so I’m curious.

 

[smv]

Takeoffs and Landings?

Not unless it's a full-motion simulator and you actually fly the landing.

...and the sim's LOA specifically lists landings as an approved loggable maneuver...

 

[Craigd31]

For an ATD, see AC61-136 appendix 4, page 4....

3. LOGGING TRAINING TIME AND EXPERIENCE. Authorized instructors utilizing an FAA-approved ATD for airmen training, pilot time, and experience requirements are required to log the time as dual instruction and as basic aviation training device (BATD) or advanced aviation training device (AATD) time appropriately. Any columns that reference flight time should remain blank when logging ATD time. Simulated instrument time can be logged in an ATD, but only during the time when the visual component of the training session is configured for instrument meteorological conditions (IMC) and the pilot is maintaining control solely by reference to the flight instruments. Logging time in this fashion will allow a pilot to credit this time towards the aeronautical experience and recent experience requirements as specified in 14 CFR part 61 or 141. It is required under part 61, § 61.51(b)(1)(iv) that the type and identification of the ATD be included in the logging of pilot time as described in the letter of authorization (LOA). It is the responsibility of the flight instructor, student, or certificated pilot to verify the device is qualified and approved for training or experience requirements. It would be appropriate for the person using the ATD to retain a copy of the LOA.

Some other specifics can be found here...

https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/avi...afety/info/all_infos/media/2015/InFO15012.pdf

 

[RingLaserGyroSandwich]

Great, thanks. So it is a recommendation from the FAA, in writing. I will obtain copies next time.

 

[bobmrg]

Great, thanks. So it is a recommendation from the FAA, in writing. I will obtain copies next time.

It is an APPROVAL from the FAA, not a recommendation.

Bob

 

[RingLaserGyroSandwich]

It is an APPROVAL from the FAA, not a recommendation.

Bob

This AC provides “information and guidance” to us pilots. The exact wording is: “It would be appropriate for the person using the ATD to retain a copy of the LOA.” This all seems like the FAA is recommending a course of action to me regarding obtaining a copy of the LOA, not providing direction. Can you explain the distinction you are making?

 

[tsts4]

It is an APPROVAL from the FAA, not a recommendation.

Bob

Bob, I think he was referring to keeping a copy of the LOA for his own records (not required), vs the AATD or BATD having a LOA with the machine which is required.