Step 2 - Tailwheel, Complex/HP or Sea?

El Reverendo

El Reverendo

Filing Flight Plan
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Aug 16, 2016
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SoCal
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Display name:
Diego Garcia
About to get my license to learn, and looking forward to putting it to good use.
I'm not on the fast track to an airline job or anything so I can have some fun with it.

I have just under 100hrs total time and for the next 100 hours or so I would like to continue to mix in some instruction with my pleasure flying.

So looking for some advice on the best next step. Not quite ready to tackle Instrument or Commercial yet so I was thinking about a tailwheel course, or maybe adding Complex/HP or maybe even a seaplane rating. Something FUN!

I'm in Southern California so it would be nice to find something reasonably close or if I have to travel, a course that will only take a few days. Also thinking about maybe a Cirrus transition course or something so I can fly something sexier.

Any thoughts or recommendations greatly appreciated here!
 
Well what's available to rent near you?

Getting a Tailwheel endorsement (most will only be ink and not enough time for anyone to trust you solo) if you're not going to be flying tailwheel is silly.

Same for the rest, as for seaplane, hardly anyone rents seaplanes.

I'd look into glider clubs, that's something you could actually use and build some quality and fun hours with if there is a semi local glider club.

High performance / complex is good, you'll end up using it, but it's really like a one or two lesson thing.
 
Tailwheel will wake up your feet. But James is right. You'll need to get instruction and time beyond the endorsement of you want to solo a tw plane. It's worth it.

Seaplanes are a ton of fun. But it's unlikely that you'll get many hours after the rating unless you buy one or have access in some way other than renting.

I'm a believer that any type of new flying adds to your skill set and makes you a better pilot.
 
Tailwheel and Seaplane rentals are harder to come by. Getting your HP/Complex endorsements will likely be easier. The next question is what do you intend to fly? No point in getting a seaplane rating if you never are going to fly such.
 
It can be much harder to find a TW plane to rent solo. I was lucky enough to find a couple Citabrias around. Even if you don't fly tailwheels exclusively after the training, I found that getting the TW signoff woke up my feet, and significantly helped with my crosswind landings. When I hit about 50 hours in TW, and truly felt more comfortable with crosswinds in the Citabria, crosswinds in a 172 were a total non-event.
 
There are several places that rent tailwheels for solo flight in SoCal. A good T/W aerobatic course is the best thing you will ever do to improve your flying skills. Plus you might find that type of flying is fun. There are several excellent places in SOCal. Sunrise Aviation and 5G Aviation are at SNA. CP Aviation is at Santa Paula. All are first class aerobatic schools. Don
 
A 100 hour pilot has much to learn about flying as it is without adding ratings. Somebody's putting the cart ahead of the horse.
 
Flying a tail wheel for the next hundred hours or so , some of it with an excellent instructor would make a big difference. The ability to recover from unusual attitudes, spins , not to mention crosswind landings, take offs would be a big benefit. Fast eddy has it right because he's been there done that with lots of students. I never flew a nose dragger until well after 500 hours in anything from a champ to a 180 Cessna. When I flew a bonanza and a mooney for the first time, both were very easy to handle. Far different from training in a 172 which in mho is a real boring airplane. Yes, a citabria gcbc would be a great choice.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Flying a tail wheel for the next hundred hours or so , some of it with an excellent instructor would make a big difference. The ability to recover from unusual attitudes, spins , not to mention crosswind landings, take offs would be a big benefit. Fast eddy has it right because he's been there done that with lots of students. I never flew a nose dragger until well after 500 hours in anything from a champ to a 180 Cessna. When I flew a bonanza and a mooney for the first time, both were very easy to handle. Far different from training in a 172 which in mho is a real boring airplane. Yes, a citabria gcbc would be a great choice.
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Indeed and same here.

Problem is, as I just said on another topic, folks look for the easiest and most forgiving planes to learn how to fly in, it's like picking a university based on how easy the classes will be.

Learning to fly from the start in a tailwheel or glider is a GREAT way to go.

But if you are not going to be flying them much, just getting some ink in the back of your log and a few token classes is a waste of $$

Another good idea on paper, that really doesn't work real life, is the idea of acro+tailwheel training, frankly it's more than enough to just learn a tiny bit of one, thinking you're going to actually be able to handle a tailwheel after a weekend acro class is foolish, you're there to learn acro and unusual attitudes, the fact that you get a few takeoffs and landing in a taildragger in incidental.

Just find out what you'll actually use and go with that, if you can rent a J3, get your tailwheel, and as far as time goes, think of it as soloing all over again, I actually found I soloed 0 time guys in taildraggers in less time than guys transitioning from trikes.

If there are no taildraggers, but there is a glider port that rents, look into that.


All else fails just take a lesson or two and and get your high performance and complex, it's not really much to learn and you'll end up needing it sooner or later.
 
Just fly and learn. Anything that you're able to.
 
At about 100hrs I was bored with flying because I could only afford an hour or two at a time. I quit for almost a year and then got my tailwheel in a Great Lakes. They cut me loose solo at 7hrs and I started aerobatics in the Great Lakes and Super Decathalons. Now I could go fly an hour and have a blast and could practice improving my maneuvers. Got checked out in a Stearman and then bought a SNJ a couple of years later. There is a lot more to flying than going point A to B and much more fun and challenging airplanes out there than the run of the mill spam cans. Don
 
flyingron said:
Tailwheel and Seaplane rentals are harder to come by. Getting your HP/Complex endorsements will likely be easier. The next question is what do you intend to fly? No point in getting a seaplane rating if you never are going to fly such.
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Tailwheel rentals are around, just harder to find than HP/complex.

There are a handful of sites that specialize in tailwheel training. In SoCal, the only one I know of is at Santa Paula, but I'm sure there are others.
 
If you can find someone doing instruction in a SeaRey, you can get tailwheel and seaplane at the same time!
 
If you get instruction in a Grumman Goose, you can get seaplane, multi-engine, tailwheel, complex and high performance at the same time.
 
SkyDog58 said:
If you get instruction in a Grumman Goose, you can get seaplane, multi-engine, tailwheel, complex and high performance at the same time.
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There is actually an outfit up in Alaska that does MES training in a G21 Goose. A bit pricey though.
 
Fearless Tower said:
There is actually an outfit up in Alaska that does MES training in a G21 Goose. A bit pricey though.
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I am thinking of going down to Florida Seaplanes this winter and do my MES in their Widgeon. Yeah, probably will not get too many chances to use the rating once I get it, but heck... I want to have a little fun. Why does everyone want to give practical answers to the OP's question? I got my SES and am hooked on landing on water. A major goal now is to buy an amphib float plane. Would never have that goal if I hadn't thrown money at the rating in the first place.
 
Stewartb said:
A 100 hour pilot has much to learn about flying as it is without adding ratings. Somebody's putting the cart ahead of the horse.
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I had my ticket at 44 hrs. At 100 hrs I was knee deep in instrument training in an Arrow and had the complex endorsement already.
 
@Fearless Tower , call Tim at KT Aviation, near Bangor. He's a CFI and a DPE, so you'll need to work out a second DPE to do the ride. There's only one other DPE in the state who can do those checkrides, I think, and he's near Portland. It's the world's only Apache on floats - might be reasonably priced.
 
Yeah, I've read about that Apache and it does sound cool plus it is in Maine which is somewhere I want to visit. However, the Widgeon sounds cooler and I will probably be wanting to get it done over the winter which makes Florida more attractive than Maine.
 
At 100 hours what are you flying now, a 172 or a PA28? Why not just take the time to get really good with that? If you're in So Cal get some experience with the mountains and high desert, have fun exploring the area because there's a heck of a lot to see and do down there. It's going to take you a couple of years to master what you have going now, no need to blast off and take on new things before finishing what you've started.
 
I was where you were a few years ago. I ended up getting all three, in this order: HP, Complex, Tailwheel.

HP is easy. Figure out cowl flaps and you're good. I found the cowl flaps more challenging to manage than the prop, but still not a big deal. Most clubs require 3 to 5 hours to check out, but you'll have it inside of an hour.

Complex is little more challenging, if only because making mistakes is much more costly. Takeoff and go-around are more challenging. Landing isn't, but screwing up will empty your wallet. Again, 3-5 hours is typical for this due to insurance requirements.

Tailwheel, now, that's real learning. Expect 10 hours of real lessons to solo. It's also the most fun of the bunch.

Can't talk about Sea. Don't have that one.

Another thing to do, if you have the opportunity, is just to check out in a bunch of different types. Every plane flies a little different. I ended up getting about a dozen checkouts.
 
arnoha said:
IFigure out cowl flaps and you're good.
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Not all HP aircraft have cowl flap - the Cirrus, for instance.

I think the biggest gotcha in HP aircraft is not being aware that all the left-turning tendencies are magnified - that can get a pilot in trouble quickly on a go around. More than a few smoking holes to the left of runways to attest to that.
 
My vote is for Complex/HP. Since you say training for your Instrument and CPL will be in the future, it wouldn't hurt to start flying some complex aircraft and getting some time in them. GL!
 
Definitely instrument. But not the actual training. Just start studying the ground, and practice flying with precision. Get to know your avionics, especially what your GPS can do. Go up with a CFII and learn how to shoot an approach without the hood. Then you can end all your flights with practice approaches remaining VFR. And do it all while racking up cross country time. Then you'll be ready to tackle your instrument rating.

Everyone always says how much more difficult the instrument rating is to get, and how much better a pilot it made them. I didn't believe it, and didn't really prepare for it during my first 2 years of flying. (Other than racking up a lot of cross country time.) I really wish I would have, because they weren't lying. The instrument training is very challenging.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I am thinking of going down to Florida Seaplanes this winter and do my MES in their Widgeon.
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Florida Seaplanes just advertises it for this guy. Does the instruction out of his home at Spruce Creek. Going down to Jack Browns to do the SES and am thinking about just doing the MES as well with this guy.
 
I did the following endorsements after getting the PPL:

> seaplane and complex - mainly to check out the flight school as I wanted to do my instrument rating with them
> instrument - way later then I wanted to get that ticket
> tailwheel - one of the best things to improve your landing skills in a nose wheel...

While seaplanes and tailwheels are seldom out there for rent, both endorsements improved my flying skills tremendously AND they are fun. :)
 
Skywalker said:
While seaplanes and tailwheels are seldom out there for rent, both endorsements improved my flying skills tremendously AND they are fun. :)
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While solo rental seaplanes can indeed be a bit of a unicorn, there are plenty of places around the country that will let you solo their tailwheels.
 
Gucci Pilot said:
Florida Seaplanes just advertises it for this guy. Does the instruction out of his home at Spruce Creek. Going down to Jack Browns to do the SES and am thinking about just doing the MES as well with this guy.
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Thanks for that info. I didn't know that it was a different operation though that doesn't change my mind. I still hope to find the time this winter to head down there. However, I do need to brush up on my multi-engine skills before I do as it has been a few years since I've flown a twin. When are you thinking of going down there?
 
What's available for you to rent? Complex and/or HP will probably be the easiest to knock out.
 
Nobody's said it so I will...

Glider add-on.

It's the cheapest form of learning how to actually pay attention to the aircraft and fly it, you'll ever do. It'll help with the TW, too.
 
Gucci Pilot said:
Florida Seaplanes just advertises it for this guy. Does the instruction out of his home at Spruce Creek. Going down to Jack Browns to do the SES and am thinking about just doing the MES as well with this guy.
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My brother and I got our SES with Rich in his Maule back in 2003. He's quite the character and a cool guy, ex Navy A7 pilot. We did mock strafing runs at a naval gunnery range in the straight float equipped M7 somewhere in central Florida north of Orlando. :cool:
 
Rykymus said:
Definitely instrument. But not the actual training. Just start studying the ground, and practice flying with precision. Get to know your avionics, especially what your GPS can do. Go up with a CFII and learn how to shoot an approach without the hood. Then you can end all your flights with practice approaches remaining VFR. And do it all while racking up cross country time. Then you'll be ready to tackle your instrument rating.

Everyone always says how much more difficult the instrument rating is to get, and how much better a pilot it made them. I didn't believe it, and didn't really prepare for it during my first 2 years of flying. (Other than racking up a lot of cross country time.) I really wish I would have, because they weren't lying. The instrument training is very challenging.
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I enjoy letting instrument pilots have a go at flying the N3N. Most can barley keep it straight and level. Good stick and rudder skills are not emphasized any more. Do a tailwheel/basic aerobatic course. It will give you a solid base for all your future ratings. Don
 
Just my .02, I am still a low time PP as well. I am dipping my toe in instrument training while building some XC time. My next thing is going to be a basic aerobatic course. Greg Koontz does a two day course near where I live and I plan to do that next year. The guy who runs the local FBO has a 140 that he said I could borrow to get my tailwheel, I'm just not sure where I would use it yet. I might do that next year also. However, I do believe the instrument rating will do me the most "good".
 
yakdriver said:
I enjoy letting instrument pilots have a go at flying the N3N. Most can barley keep it straight and level. Good stick and rudder skills are not emphasized any more. Do a tailwheel/basic aerobatic course. It will give you a solid base for all your future ratings. Don
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What's Tailwheel/stick and rudder have to do with instrument?

Instrument doesn't really have to do with having or not having a good stick and rudder sense, it's mostly just procedures.


Guess I'm very much a instrument guy, I still cut my teeth flying tailwheels and have shot full IAPs, broken off and landed, went low level visual and landed in a lake.
 
OP, where are you located? TW / acro at Sunrise (Michael Church) or Fly 5G (Ty Frisby) is awesome. They're both based at SNA, and I've flown with both schools.

Sidenote: if you haven't done the spin/upset recovery with Sunrise (or anything like it), go do that first, regardless of what you choose next.

Sunrise: older machines, but very knowledgeable, slightly cheaper than 5g. Way more scheduling availability.

Fly 5g: Ty came from Sunrise years ago. Slightly more expensive, but the aircraft are essentially brand new (and also for sale most of the time since they are an ACA rep - but don't let that scare you off one bit). Scheduling is more tricky, it's really a phone call to arrange lessons. They aren't a high volume/formal flight school with dispatchers, etc.

I know Sunrise you can rent TW solo, and even do acro solo. Not sure on Fly 5g.
 
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