Station air down Marlin TX

Sad to see. Looks like they were doing maneuvers at low altitude
 
Maybe a photo mission, lots of circles. Winds were from the SSW with some gusts. CAVU

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They got really slow during a few of those turns. Stall speed in level flight in a 206 is 47 knots. 60 degree bank it’s over 60 knots. Could this be a moose stall? From the looks of the wreckage they came in pretty vertical.


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OK, I see the weather was fine. Very tragic.
 
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It was a pipeline patrol airplane, with a young lady named Cinnamon on board starting a new job. She was from south of Indy. "Somebody" said they were seen landing at Marlin and it went wrong, but that's about as heresay as it gets. I knew her, she was so excited to be starting off with her wet Commercial ticket getting a new job and on her way in aviation. That was a bit of a jolt to read about her death 16 hours after I'd just interacted with her...as always, I feel for the family the most.
 
Registered to AMS Aviation LLC out of Indiana. The linked in profile indicates it was formed to supply aerial survey companies with leased aircraft. If true that may explain the maneuvering late in the flight.
 
FlightofTwo said:
It was a pipeline patrol airplane, with a young lady named Cinnamon on board starting a new job. She was from south of Indy. "Somebody" said they were seen landing at Marlin and it went wrong, but that's about as heresay as it gets. I knew her, she was so excited to be starting off with her wet Commercial ticket getting a new job and on her way in aviation. That was a bit of a jolt to read about her death 16 hours after I'd just interacted with her...as always, I feel for the family the most.
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That is just heartbreaking.
 
sourdough44 said:
Wasn’t the weather bad? Seems like scud running may of become fatal??
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No, it was perfect weather. We were nearby soon enough afterwards to still hear the ELT going off, but we had been doing aerial photography in the Dallas area earlier.

That's the town of Marlin on the east side of the Brazos River cropped from an image taken yesterday afternoon a couple of hours after the accident.

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It was clear skies, maybe a bit on the windy side for some folks, but well within a Cardinal's crosswind capabilities.
 
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FlightofTwo said:
It was a pipeline patrol airplane, with a young lady named Cinnamon on board starting a new job. She was from south of Indy. "Somebody" said they were seen landing at Marlin and it went wrong, but that's about as heresay as it gets. I knew her, she was so excited to be starting off with her wet Commercial ticket getting a new job and on her way in aviation. That was a bit of a jolt to read about her death 16 hours after I'd just interacted with her...as always, I feel for the family the most.
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Hopefully you don’t build many memories like that but if you stick around this business I’m sure it won’t be the last. Unfortunately.
 
I can confirm weather was CAVU, light gusty xwind for R-17. Runway is only 3000’ and narrow. It has quite an interesting Chart Supplement writeup.
 
DavidWhite said:
is one of the most badass/experienced pilots on this board
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I have known a few of those that did not survive flying in Alaska.

Tarheelpilot said:
Hopefully you don’t build many memories like that but if you stick around this business I’m sure it won’t be the last. Unfortunately.
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Sadly a lot of truth here. Some will be folks no one ever expected to get in a situation similar to this one.

I just hope it was not a ''Look at what this plane can do'' type accident.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Hopefully you don’t build many memories like that but if you stick around this business I’m sure it won’t be the last. Unfortunately.
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DavidWhite said:
@FlightofTwo is one of the most badass/experienced pilots on this board
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Gosh, I don't know about that, but thanks...
Tarheelpilot said:
I know.
Relevance? How does anyones experience change what I said.
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Yeah, I've stuck around this business for 30+ years and sadly, no, it's not close to my first loss. Including my husband's best friend with him watching, another was one of our former instructors, then there was a close friend and two boys who were our cousins who hit a pole on landing and died in a fireball in front of me a bit over a year ago, and that's not even all of them. I sure hope this is the last person I know that I lose, but I plan on being around this business for another 30+ years, so I doubt it, unfortunately... :(
 
Zeldman said:
Sadly a lot of truth here. Some will be folks no one ever expected to get in a situation similar to this one.

I just hope it was not a ''Look at what this plane can do'' type accident.
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I don't know who else was in the plane or what their roles were on that flight, but Cinna wasn't a show-off kind of pilot. She was always very conscientious, still young enough as a pilot to be eager to learn, eager to get started in her professional flying career, not eager to be a yahoo, or to think she was bulletproof, yet...
 
Sorry for everyone involved. The adsb data looked like it stopped right around when they hit pattern altitude. I don't know what that means there, but here it could be as simple as you drop below line of site for anything to pickup the data. Anyway, if I read it right, last point was about 98 knots ground speed. So if they had a 12 knot - guessing - tailwind, that would be what, 86 knots airspeed. Which seems pretty slow to me in the descent to final, if a 206 has a clean stall speed of about 62. I haven't read people talk about it much, but the pitch increase to level out from a descent increases angle of attack, too. The normal thing to think worry about is the base to final turn, but arresting a descent and turning downwind could do it just as easily, especially slow and coming out of a tailwind. I know, a lot of if's. Not trying to disparage anyone, just thinking about things that I want to be careful about, too.
 
FlightofTwo said:
I don't know who else was in the plane or what their roles were on that flight, but Cinna wasn't a show-off kind of pilot. She was always very conscientious, still young enough as a pilot to be eager to learn, eager to get started in her professional flying career, not eager to be a yahoo, or to think she was bulletproof, yet...
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And it sounds like she walked one hell of a path toward what she hoped would a bright future in the sky. It genuinely hurts to read/watch this, especially the update at the end.

https://www.maryrigg.org/cinnamons-success-story/
 
flightwriter said:
"If you laugh, you think, and you cry, that's a full day. That's a heck of a day. You do that seven days a week, you're going to have something special." -- James "Jimmy V" Valvano
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That quote popped into my mind as I was reading the article you put up. It's a great speech. Now I need to find something funny to watch.
 
NTSB hasn't determined what happened, they haven't even said who was flying yet, but our aviation version of Alex Jones, the one and only Dan Gryder has solved the case. She stalled and spun it in on a go-around or a touch-n-go. It was certainly her piloting the plane and her lack of experience that caused this. Dan has spoken... so let it be written, so let it be done. Case closed.
 
Lowflynjack said:
NTSB hasn't determined what happened, they haven't even said who was flying yet, but our aviation version of Alex Jones, the one and only Dan Gryder has solved the case. She stalled and spun it in on a go-around or a touch-n-go. It was certainly her piloting the plane and her lack of experience that caused this. Dan has spoken... so let it be written, so let it be done. Case closed.
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I've never watched any of his videos based on info posted around here ... isn't he the same guy that crashed a 152 into a corn field?
 
danhagan said:
I've never watched any of his videos based on info posted around here ... isn't he the same guy that crashed a 152 into a corn field?
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Yep.

(Removing the rest of my comment. I don't want this thread to get locked since I'm sure there will be further updates when an actual cause is determined.)
 
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texasclouds said:
I can confirm weather was CAVU, light gusty xwind for R-17. Runway is only 3000’ and narrow. It has quite an interesting Chart Supplement writeup.
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That it does….

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DG could be correct. I can see the probability for a stalled aircraft with nose trimmed up to land, an aircraft with heavier controls and more power than the small framed pilot is used to. Maybe even a rapid change of flap configuration from full to zero.

I’m not sure why they even chose to land in Marlin. There are no services, no restroom, and the lake clientele is quite sketchy. I’ve had a few picnics there and wished I was packing heat.
 
brcase said:
Usually a Trim Stall on a Go around. After the Moose walked across the runway as you were about the land.

Brian
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Nope. It’s a distracted turning stall at low altitude. As you see a moose and do a tight turn to keep it in view at low airspeed.
 
texasclouds said:
DG could be correct. I can see the probability for a stalled aircraft with nose trimmed up to land, an aircraft with heavier controls and more power than the small framed pilot is used to. Maybe even a rapid change of flap configuration from full to zero.

I’m not sure why they even chose to land in Marlin. There are no services, no restroom, and the lake clientele is quite sketchy. I’ve had a few picnics there and wished I was packing heat.
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He has been correct quite a few times, we're all pretty good at guessing in this type of accident. It's just the way he states as a fact who was flying and what they did wrong.

I've landed at Marlin many times to stretch my legs and walk around the lake. They may have simply needed a minute outside of the plane after flying that long.
 
texasclouds said:
DG could be correct. I can see the probability for a stalled aircraft with nose trimmed up to land, an aircraft with heavier controls and more power than the small framed pilot is used to. Maybe even a rapid change of flap configuration from full to zero.

I’m not sure why they even chose to land in Marlin. There are no services, no restroom, and the lake clientele is quite sketchy. I’ve had a few picnics there and wished I was packing heat.
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The 182 can be a handful on the go due to trimming so much to land. Stationair has to be even more work I’d imagine.
 
Lowflynjack said:
Yep.

(Removing the rest of my comment. I don't want this thread to get locked since I'm sure there will be further updates when an actual cause is determined.)
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I guess he makes youtube money, sad that it's on the backs of survivors pain :(... aviation is very unforgiving for minor errors and memory lapses.

Years ago I got smoke in the cockpit on a night flight as I was approaching to land (alternator bolt sheared, pulley froze, smoke from belt spinning over non-moving pulley, battery exploded a second later). After landing without electrical I thought about if that landing had ended up much worse and the "cause" was destroyed in the accident resulting in the horrible "pilot error" finding :eek::eek::eek:.
 
Lowflynjack said:
It's just the way he states as a fact who was flying and what they did wrong.
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I'm torn on DG. The Shamblin stuff was just bazaar and I'm not sure why he went so deep in the paint on that one and some of his stuff is just rude. But tbh I don't mind channels like blancolirio and DG, there's so much speculation out there and often times the NTSB's findings take years, and the probable cause is something akin to "pilot's failure to fly the airplane" without any real deep dive

Both blancolirio and DG take some time to get factual details about the accident, both (for better or worse) are around planes a lot and have experience with them. In the case of DG, and this is where he loses people, he will often cast a blunt judgment on the folks flying. His take on this accident didn't seem in poor taste, at least not by his standards. It's doubtful for this accident the NTSB would give us something beyond "pilot's failure to maintain control of aircraft during landing" <- which doesn't tell us much about how to be better pilots
 
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