Starting instrument training - materials?

DaleB

DaleB

Final Approach
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DaleB
Hi all... hope this has not been beaten to death too many times already; if it has, feel free to publicly flog me for asking. :)

I want to get started on my instrument rating. So far I've done next to nothing -- just the required instrument flight during my primary training, and I did have an instructor run me through a GPS approach (without foggles) while getting some HP training in a 430W-equipped 182.

I'd prefer to do as much of the ground school on my own as possible. Is there a "clearly the best" option for an on line or other self-study ground program? I tried out a few different methods for the PP ground school and found the King on line course to be pretty effective, if that helps. Sporty's was OK, but it seemed to be more "exam prep" than actual learning.
 
NineThreeKilo said:
King School
Click to expand...

I used King Schools as well. Just remember that the Feds no longer let them have the test so you may very well get some questions that you may or may not have seen before. I had at least 10 that were complete surprises to me. I still recommend them because I called them, told them about this and they were very receptive. King Schools wants you to do well.


Mike
 
I used King online and then used Dauntless for practice until I hit the 90's on a regular basis.
 
I used King Schools also. Back then, the FAA did let them have the questions. I did well on the test.
 
I didn't pass any writtens (or need to) but the King materials that are occasionally shown at FIRC seminars have cured my insomnia.
 
If you can tolerate the King humor then give them a shot. I used them for my PP written (a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away) and a couple years ago for my IR written. They prepare you well for the written (and only the written). I also have the Gleim book, but reading the questions and answers there puts me to sleep faster than a King video. If you go with the on-line version of the King videos you will have the advantage of it always being as up-to-date as the Kings can make it. But, you need a good fast connection to the net. Otherwise you spend too much time waiting for the connection to catch up while you are looking at a frame with Martha's mouth open and nothing happening.

Download the books the FAA has. They're free and contain much useful information. You won't need them for the written (although you can download the book used with the written to see if you can read some of the figures any better - it probably won't help), but they are useful as you complete your training.

Oh, and a key material is a properly equipped airplane. I know, kind of obvious, but I thought I'd throw it in. A good CFII is useful, too. :D
 
If you're just looking to pass the written test, the Gleim test prep book worked like a charm for me.

As for actually learning something, get the book that is used by PIC: http://www.iflyifr.com/book.php

Those books, reading (useful) discussions here, and a half-way decent CFII is pretty much all I used to get through the training and checkride without any problems.
 
I suggest you do this.

1.) Have your instructor tell you what you should read and understand from the Instrument Flying Handbook before each lesson. The Instrument Procedures handbook may be used as well. But initially it's all about the IFH.

2.) Brute-force your way through the instrument written. Much of it is pretty irrelevant these days and it's not an easy written. I suggest this software package for $40:
http://www.dauntless-soft.com/products/groundschool/ifr.asp

3.) After you've completed the written focus on the Practical Test Standards. Knowing the PTS inside and out is *HOW* you pass checkrides.

4.) The PTS will tell you where to find, in free materials, the subjects that you'll be tested on. It references Advisory Circulars all over in it with the information.

5.) An instrument oral guide is cheap and is a great quick reference for you to look things up.

6.) Before your checkride have your instructor do mock orals with you. I normally do two or three mock orals with my students before an instrument ride at 3 to 4 hours each. This is the KEY to doing well on your checkride. The PTS is the guide for it. My mock orals are way harder than the real deal and I show the student how to find everything they didn't know.

7.) So now you might be thinking. OMG. This guy has a system for passing checkrides. He even tells people to brute force the written. What about becoming a safe instrument pilot that can actually utilize their certificate? **THAT** is covered by doing good training flights, real cross countries, and flying in real weather. Learning to be a good instrument pilot has little to do with being good at passing instrument checkrides. Find an instructor that will cover both.

If you follow what I wrote you'll spend $50 on materials for your ground training. It's really all you need.

I've sent 5 pilots to instrument checkrides in the last year and a half or so. 100% pass.

Instrument Flying Handbook
http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/media/FAA-H-8083-15B.pdf

Instrument Procedures Handbook
http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/instrument_procedures_handbook/

Practical Test Standards
http://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/test_standards/media/faa-s-8081-4e.pdf
 
Sound advice overall, few suggestions

- Sheppard Air is better for brute-forcing your way through the written than any other software out there
- Get the PTS off of the FAA website from that link. Printed editions currently sold are outdated. You can you the one from Jepp + the most recent revision list (minor stuff), ASA is much more outdated.
- Oral guide - as good of an idea as it is, the current Instrument one is also somewhat outdated.


jesse said:
I suggest you do this.

1.) Have your instructor tell you what you should read and understand from the Instrument Flying Handbook before each lesson. The Instrument Procedures handbook may be used as well. But initially it's all about the IFH.

2.) Brute-force your way through the instrument written. Much of it is pretty irrelevant these days and it's not an easy written. I suggest this software package for $40:
http://www.dauntless-soft.com/products/groundschool/ifr.asp

3.) After you've completed the written focus on the Practical Test Standards. Knowing the PTS inside and out is *HOW* you pass checkrides.

4.) The PTS will tell you where to find, in free materials, the subjects that you'll be tested on. It references Advisory Circulars all over in it with the information.

5.) An instrument oral guide is cheap and is a great quick reference for you to look things up.

6.) Before your checkride have your instructor do mock orals with you. I normally do two or three mock orals with my students before an instrument ride at 3 to 4 hours each. This is the KEY to doing well on your checkride. The PTS is the guide for it. My mock orals are way harder than the real deal and I show the student how to find everything they didn't know.

7.) So now you might be thinking. OMG. This guy has a system for passing checkrides. He even tells people to brute force the written. What about becoming a safe instrument pilot that can actually utilize their certificate? **THAT** is covered by doing good training flights, real cross countries, and flying in real weather. Learning to be a good instrument pilot has little to do with being good at passing instrument checkrides. Find an instructor that will cover both.

If you follow what I wrote you'll spend $50 on materials for your ground training. It's really all you need.

I've sent 5 pilots to instrument checkrides in the last year and a half or so. 100% pass.

Instrument Flying Handbook
http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/media/FAA-H-8083-15B.pdf

Instrument Procedures Handbook
http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/instrument_procedures_handbook/

Practical Test Standards
http://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/test_standards/media/faa-s-8081-4e.pdf
Click to expand...
 
moonshine said:
Sound advice overall, few suggestions

- Sheppard Air is better for brute-forcing your way through the written than any other software out there
Click to expand...
There is no such thing as an Instrument Sheppard Air. I like their products but they do not have anything below Commercial.

I recommend people use Daughtless for Private and Instrument then Sheppard Air for everything after that.

Edit:

Disregard. It appears there is now an Instrument Sheppard Air that they recently came out with. I suggest you use that instead:
http://www.sheppardair.com/instrument-rating.htm
 
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If you liked and did well with the online course, don't fix what ain't broke -- stick with it. Then get one of the practice test software packages (I like Gleim's but they're all pretty much the same) and keep doing practice tests until you're consistently scoring 85 or better before you do it for real.
 
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jesse said:
I suggest you do this.

1.) Have your instructor tell you what you should read and understand from the Instrument Flying Handbook before each lesson. The Instrument Procedures handbook may be used as well. But initially it's all about the IFH.

2.) Brute-force your way through the instrument written. Much of it is pretty irrelevant these days and it's not an easy written. I suggest this software package for $40:
http://www.dauntless-soft.com/products/groundschool/ifr.asp

3.) After you've completed the written focus on the Practical Test Standards. Knowing the PTS inside and out is *HOW* you pass checkrides.

4.) The PTS will tell you where to find, in free materials, the subjects that you'll be tested on. It references Advisory Circulars all over in it with the information.

5.) An instrument oral guide is cheap and is a great quick reference for you to look things up.

6.) Before your checkride have your instructor do mock orals with you. I normally do two or three mock orals with my students before an instrument ride at 3 to 4 hours each. This is the KEY to doing well on your checkride. The PTS is the guide for it. My mock orals are way harder than the real deal and I show the student how to find everything they didn't know.

7.) So now you might be thinking. OMG. This guy has a system for passing checkrides. He even tells people to brute force the written. What about becoming a safe instrument pilot that can actually utilize their certificate? **THAT** is covered by doing good training flights, real cross countries, and flying in real weather. Learning to be a good instrument pilot has little to do with being good at passing instrument checkrides. Find an instructor that will cover both.

If you follow what I wrote you'll spend $50 on materials for your ground training. It's really all you need.

I've sent 5 pilots to instrument checkrides in the last year and a half or so. 100% pass.

Instrument Flying Handbook
http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/media/FAA-H-8083-15B.pdf

Instrument Procedures Handbook
http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/instrument_procedures_handbook/

Practical Test Standards
http://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/test_standards/media/faa-s-8081-4e.pdf
Click to expand...


Upon reading this I agree with everything Jesse has written. I didn't spend enough time in the Instrument Flying Handbook. Learn the PTS Standards, study the Oral prep book and learn the Instrument Flying Handbook inside and out and you'll be prepared for the whole thing. Your flying will happen faster as well.
 
jesse said:
Edit:

Disregard. It appears there is now an Instrument Sheppard Air that they recently came out with. I suggest you use that instead:
http://www.sheppardair.com/instrument-rating.htm
Click to expand...

Do you know if their Instructor course will also cover the material needed to pass the Instrument written? Why, because I think I want to take both exams. If I take and pass the instructor, does the FAA also give it a 2 year shelf life?
 
Jaybird180 said:
Do you know if their Instructor course will also cover the material needed to pass the Instrument written? Why, because I think I want to take both exams. If I take and pass the instructor, does the FAA also give it a 2 year shelf life?
Click to expand...


They have packages, give Sheppard a call. The II is very similar to the IFR written. it can make a lot of sense to do the IFR, II, and IGI at the same time. Same with the Commercial, CFI and AGI.
 
ja_user said:
They have packages, give Sheppard a call. The II is very similar to the IFR written. it can make a lot of sense to do the IFR, II, and IGI at the same time. Same with the Commercial, CFI and AGI.
Click to expand...
Yes, that's what I actually meant, but why the heck not? I'm in!
 
Jaybird180 said:
Yes, that's what I actually meant, but why the heck not? I'm in!
Click to expand...

It will save you time prepping for the written, but again. This isn't the same as ground school, this is just passing the test.
 
Email correspondence from Sheppard Air below (with permission to disseminate):

Hi,

Yes, you can.

Sincerely,
Mike.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jaybird180
To: sheppardair <sheppardair@aol.com>
Sent: Wed, Jun 5, 2013 10:59 pm
Subject: Re: FII and IRA question

Is it OK to disseminate your response?

Sent from my iPhone with the teeny tiny keyboard

On Jun 5, 2013, at 11:13 PM, sheppardair@aol.com wrote:

Hi,

No, definitely not. We do differentiated bank study as you probably know from our web site. That means when you study for IRA, you ONLY see the questions in the FAA's current IRA test engine, but NO questions that appear on other tests (like FII). The reverse is true... if you only studied for FII, you'd only see the questions the FAA uses on the FII test and NONE of the questions that are unique to the IRA test. The bottom line is that if you studied with our FII course and attempted the IRA test you WOULD FAIL! People have enough trouble passing the IRA test when they have enrolled in the IRA course (because it is the hardest FAA airplane pilot test at the moment according to the FAA's statistics).

Sincerely,
Mike Stauffer,
Sheppard Air, Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jaybird180
To: sheppardair <sheppardair@aol.com>
Sent: Wed, Jun 5, 2013 8:47 am
Subject: FII and IRA question

Hi
I am considering your software to help me with my Instrument test prep. I also
considered taking the Instrument instructor. If I just purchase the instructor
software, will it also prepare me for the IRA?

Sent from my iPhone with the teeny tiny keyboard
 
yes, buy each one that you want to pass (their packages are cheaper). But don't be surprised after you do IRA to see a lot of the same questions in II.
 
jesse said:
3.) After you've completed the written focus on the Practical Test Standards. Knowing the PTS inside and out is *HOW* you pass checkrides.
Click to expand...

I agree with Jesse, I used the IFH and IPH for my training.

The only thing I would add is forget everything you know about the PTS on the walk out to the plane. At that point you need to fly the plane like you have been with your instructor, worrying about what the PTS says won't make you a better pilot. If you do something dumb and don't get called on it, keep flying the plane!

If you do something dumb and get rattled by it ask for a discontinuance, there's no reason to keep the accident chain going and end up with a bust because you got taken off your game.
 
airheadpenguin said:
I agree with Jesse, I used the IFH and IPH for my training.

The only thing I would add is forget everything you know about the PTS on the walk out to the plane. At that point you need to fly the plane like you have been with your instructor, worrying about what the PTS says won't make you a better pilot. If you do something dumb and don't get called on it, keep flying the plane!

If you do something dumb and get rattled by it ask for a discontinuance, there's no reason to keep the accident chain going and end up with a bust because you got taken off your game.
Click to expand...

I agree with your first paragraph to a T. About the second paragraph. My very humble response to that is...Don't let yourself get rattled or at least try really hard not to. My best advice is to tell your self in advance of the check-ride "I will not let any thing rattle me today, even 10 mistakes on the check-ride will not rattle me today".
 
Jaybird180 said:
The bottom line is that if you studied with our FII course and attempted the IRA test you WOULD FAIL!
Click to expand...

Seems like fearmongering to increase sales. I took the instrument rating test several years ago and missed 2 questions. I took the instrument ground instructor test 12 months later, WITHOUT STUDYING AT ALL, and missed 3 questions. They appear to use identical question banks except the latter might have a helicopter Q or what not in it. I would image the instrument flight instructor is the same way.
 
dtuuri said:
You're kidding, right?

Sorry, but as a former DPE I can't help but think of this commercial:

dtuuri
Click to expand...

The system is designed to relieve a stressful situation by providing an alternate that is reachable and has a good approach. In real life, if I arrived at my intended destination, shot the approach and had to go missed I could make a decision about what to do next. It may not be to press on and come around again. Depending on conditions it may likely be to divert to my alternate which should have better weather based on alternate minimums.

A checkride puts the student in a myriad of situations that are abnormal, plus the stress of the day itself. Some increased stress you should be able to handle but I would say that if you no longer believe you can fit the criteria described by IMSAFE its good ADM to discontinue. You can think of this as diverting to an alternate that allows you to land VFR.
 
I used the King's VCR tapes. Scored a 98 on the test.

I would recommend them. Then I got the FAA test booklet, read and marked ALL the right answers and went through it 3 times. That way, I saw the question and the right answer. Never looked at the wrong answer.
 
airheadpenguin said:
A checkride puts the student in a myriad of situations that are abnormal, plus the stress of the day itself. Some increased stress you should be able to handle but I would say that if you no longer believe you can fit the criteria described by IMSAFE its good ADM to discontinue. You can think of this as diverting to an alternate that allows you to land VFR.
Click to expand...
Twenty-five years ago I would give out a pink slip if you got so rattled over a mistake you asked to end the test. Unless due to circumstances beyond the control of the applicant, like an equipment failure or weather, the test could only end in one of two ways: A temporary license or a pink slip. Are you of the opinion times have changed? I looked through Order 8900.2, Chapter 7, Par. 16 e. (2) and found this:
(2) The examiner or the applicant may discontinue the test at any time when the failure of a required Area of Operation makes the applicant ineligible for the certificate or rating sought. If the test is discontinued, the applicant must receive credit for only those Areas of Operations which were successfully performed. With the consent of the examiner, the applicant may also elect to continue the test after failing a required task. The applicant must receive credit only for those Areas of Operations which are satisfactorily completed.
​
I think the rule is the same, and rightly so, should you fail a task. You don't get to call a timeout and come back when you're really ready.

Nor do you get to discontinue a test any time you want. The next paragraph explains:
17. Practical Test Discontinuance. Environmental, mechanical, or personal situations can occur which could cause the test to be discontinued. In such cases, the examiner should assure the applicant that he/she has not failed the practical test and should attempt to reschedule the test as soon as possible. Some of the reasons for discontinuance of a practical test are weather, mechanical problems, or incapacitation of the applicant or examiner after the test has begun.
​
If you're contending "personal situations" can be stretched to cover nervousness, I disagree. It means this from Paragraph 7. a. of the same:
a. Personal Prejudices. An examiner must not allow personal prejudices to interfere with the objective evaluation of an applicant. If a personality conflict or disagreement develops between the examiner and the applicant before any unsatisfactory performance by the applicant, the examiner or the applicant may discontinue the practical test. In this case, the examiner issues a letter of discontinuance.
​

Or are you stretching "incapacitation" because of a "mistake" rather than, say, the stomach flu?

If you are right (I'm not perfect), I think it's pretty sad that D-day plus 69 years and two days, an applicant for a pilot license or rating thinks they don't even need to take responsibility for their own performance let alone rush a machine gun nest.

YMMV.

dtuuri
 
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If they fail they should get pink slipped, I agree.

The conditions you mention all can be scapegoated into being used as a reason to discontinue. In reality the student is simply not comfortable operating in those conditions.

The database is littered with accidents resulting from get-there-itus. Why should students not apply the same ADM process to their checkride that they would apply to any other flight? Is yielding to git-er-done-itus better?
 
airheadpenguin said:
The conditions you mention all can be scapegoated into being used as a reason to discontinue.
Click to expand...
And I say an examiner ought to see it for just that and fork over a pink slip.


airheadpenguin said:
In reality the student is simply not comfortable operating in those conditions.
Click to expand...
Aww... what a shame. The "student" is going to stay one until the student learns how to stay comfortable.

airheadpenguin said:
The database is littered with accidents resulting from get-there-itus. Why should students not apply the same ADM process to their checkride that they would apply to any other flight?
Click to expand...
Wrong analogy. A correct one would be a comparison with pilots who crashed after they couldn't handle their own mistakes. Good luck finding that on the littered land.

dtuuri
 
I remember when I was finally ready for my check ride. Before, I would get flustered and confused. After I stuck with it longer than I thought I needed to, I reached a point where I could correct my mistakes and get back on track.

That is when my II released for my check ride. It lasted 3 1/2 hours total but I did very well because I was ready in experience, not in time and regulations.

The GPS was hard for me but once I mastered it everything sort of fell into place. Also flying six days straight, all day long, helped me tremendously. I used PIC. Best decision I made.
 
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