luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
I doubt if it’s airline pilots that push the pilot numbers up. There’s a job that never seems to make these lists. Only 46 people have ever had it. 4 of them got killed on the job.
Starting EMT training today
- Thread starter Morgan3820
- Start date
We used to explicitly ask for fire, ask for another ambulance crew and Murphy’s law you’re going to get the 130lb EMT girl with the 80yr old “driver”
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 15,597
- Display Name
Display name:
Velocity173
Yep, same issue in my area. One of the reasons our flight volume has increased. We’re doing simple transfers now because ground EMS is out of service. Seems like it’s gotten worse since COVID.
Morgan3820
Ejection Handle Pulled
At our first day of class the instructor pointed out that if you’re being an EMT for the money think again. She specifically mentioned that you could make more money working at McDonald’s then doing EMT work. I don’t care because I have a good pension/retirement fund. But $15-$16 an hour isn’t going to motivate many people to join and stay. Only three students showed up for class. I think this is happening in a lot of public sector jobs.
midwestpa24
Final Approach
I did a little more digging into the information, to try to find the raw data.
In 2017, there were 59 occupational pilots killed. This results in a rate of 48.6 per 100,000 full-time pilots. I had a hard time finding the exact number of occupational pilots in 2017, but 2021 numbers were around 42,000. I think that is what drives this statistic, the overall number of pilots is not that high.
In 2017, there were 93 Police officers killed in the Line of Duty. Of that, 47 were accidental, and 46 were classified as "felonious". In 2017, there were approximately 956,000 full time officers employed in the US.
2017 also saw 87 Firefighter Line of Duty Deaths, although as usual most FF LODD are cardiac events on scene.
I was but a vollie, however I could swear I saw EMT-B jobs that paid like $25hr, still vastly underpaid for what you’re doing, but the only way I could see getting paid less than a burger flipper is if you’re volunteer
There was a job listing at a casino years back that was like 50k a year for a EMT-B, guess you stand around and wait for a slot lizard to keel over, or someone to choke on a complementary cup of nuts
Depends where you are. I am in rural WV with volunteer EMS ($0/hr + T-shirt). The hospital affiliated transport company that does all the BLS/ALS/CC transports pays substantially more than those numbers. A good number of our EMS members are either drivers, EMTs or paramedics with the company.
hindsight2020
Final Approach
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2010
- Messages
- 6,998
- Display Name
Display name:
hindsight2020
Based on my family anecdotal experience (4 extended members in EMT, all now out of it) my only hesitation for that kind of work in my 50s would be back decay/injury. We got one on SSDI as a result of decades of that work (these are all in PR, where pay is even more atrocious and poverty has been near locked in for political status reasons that are not germane to this thread). All of them are messed up though. Leasing your body for a lifetime pension is one thing when it comes to indentured servitude, doing it for a clap line at the local hospital parking lot and a SSDI check in early indigence is another thing entire. This isn't limited to EMT btw, many blue/pink collar occupations that resemble that remark.
Given my income opportunity costs, that kind of bodily injury exposure wouldn't pencil out for me in first retirement, but i salute those who undertake the risk for zero dollars.
Given my income opportunity costs, that kind of bodily injury exposure wouldn't pencil out for me in first retirement, but i salute those who undertake the risk for zero dollars.
It includes cardiac events within 24hrs of being engaged in firefighting or rescue operations. So if you are 76 and you drive the tanker to a brush fire in the afternoon and the next morning you wake up dead, it's counted as a LODD. I understand why this was expanded , but there are plenty of examples where it is difficult to claim causality beyond general cardiovascular risk.
It also includes personal vehicle accidents to or from the station if related to an emergency response. So if 19yo smoke eater launches his Subaru down an embankment while posting his exploits to Instagram after a call, it's a LODD.
Actual deaths while inside a fire building or during a rescue operation are in the low 20s every year.
midwestpa24
Final Approach
I won't dispute your post, but will add to it.
The cardiovascular risk from firefighting far exceeds the person's age/health. More and more studies have shown that the cardio stress on firefighters on scene is massive. High heat trapped inside the turnout gear, high physical exertion with no warm-up (sometimes from a dead sleep in the middle of the night), high stress and adrenaline from the situation, and the exposure to carbon monoxide, cyanide, and other toxic gases, all place a lot of stress on the firefighter's body. Yeah, there are outside cases like you mention of older out of shape firefighters, but they are not the norm.
The auto vehicle deaths, yeah there is no excuse. We stress that very hard to our crews, especially the newer, younger ones. Iowa only allows volunteers to have a single blue light in the windshield, which is nothing more than a courtesy light. No siren, no breaking traffic laws. Even in the apparatus, our Chief discourages running hot except in the most critical calls. The time difference between driving normal and driving emergent is usually insignificant, at least in our district.
My fire department has had two LODD in its 150 year existence. Both were cardiac events, one on scene and one a couple hours later. In the case of the one who died at home later, he was a young fit man in his early 30s with no known pre-existing conditions.
Zeldman
Touchdown! Greaser!
Which I find dissapointing that EMT's have hundreds of hours in training and continuous studying to make 15 bucks an hour, while minimum wage earners at McDonalds receive minutes of training and demand the same 15 bucks an hour...
When I was in air ambulance the EMT's/ nurses worked their three 24 hour shifts, then on their 7 days off worked at the hospital. They were making more than the pilots.
Last edited:
Let'sgoflying!
Touchdown! Greaser!
We are told this too.
1. Must obey all traffic rules like all vehicles.
2. Lights and Sirens are discouraged due to their direct, and statistically proven relationship to collisions or loss of control. They amp up the driver who then loses awareness, and abandons normal caution.
We were given a couple of videos to watch - one was I think 'Lights and Sirens' talking about this, the other was a sobering 1st hand account by a firetruck driver who killed an innocent driver enroute due to his lack of caution.
We only use them when traffic requires (rare in rural).
On our drives of often over an hour, the few minutes saved by driving 83mph (our governor speed) is not going to make a difference in 99.999% of cases.
(I drive our ambu occasionally; small town)
Very true
Most of our lights and sirens were at pretty low speed just trying to make a hole to get through
High speed lights and sirens, that’s asking for trouble, can’t save the Pt if you get them killed yourself
Let'sgoflying!
Touchdown! Greaser!
Same here. I think our volunteer average age in our service is over 50. We recently had an 80yo retire.
Not sure if it was mentioned but there is a device we have called a Raizer lifting chair that saves our backs. It slides under the supine patient, all the legs attach to a motor/battery. You hit the remote switch and they are shortly in a sitting position. From there many can get up to their walker etc. I was told Medicare will help pay for one, where the pt is making multiple 911 calls in a month for a Lift Assist. $3-7K
And we have the Stryker transport stretcher in which you don't ever have to lift the pt in or out of the Ambu; they attach to the back of it, the legs raise up, you slide it in and same on reverse. We have rolled pts a hundred feet across uneven sloped surfaces with them. You can get a refurb for $10K.
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
Any data on what types of occupational pilots? Airline, fire suppression, bush piloting, etc. I’m still thinking that Airline pilots are probably not the ones pushing the overall pilot rate up. Yeah on firefighters and heart attacks. My son is one. They are more conscious about that than the old days. Annual physicals and diet education are a big thing nowadays. At least his department, Los Angeles County. The days of the boys cooking up nothing but heart attacks on a plate at the house are gone.
Very admirable! Good luck on your new endeavors.
I think everyone said it wasn’t big 121 drivers, also medicals don’t really make anyone much safer based on evidence
The aspects that make flying a DAL 787 super safe are practically impossible for the rest of the aviation industry, outside of the gov subsidized majors most cant operate in as much of a sterile environment with a army of people coordinating everything, it’s just not practical operationally or financially
midwestpa24
Final Approach
I couldn't find real good information with limited time to Google things, but I assume Part 121 Airline pilots are included in the 42,000 total, but obviously Part 121 pilots are not making up the entire 59 occupational deaths. I don't believe there was a single US Part 121 fatal crash in 2017. I suppose there could be 1 or 2 pilots that died of medical or other causes in the Airline world while at work, but certainly not 59.
One other thought I've had on this, I think the "Dangerous Job" part of these statistics can be misleading. Using the "Out of 100,000" rate can wildly skew numbers, because of the vast difference in total numbers of pilots, police officers, firefighters, mechanics, waiters, escorts, etc. As you can see, the total number of occupational deaths in most of these occupations is quite low compared to everyday life. The workplace is probably one of the more controlled, safer places you can be.
I would also point out, that for most occupations, a death would result from an accident, likely of your own or a co-worker's mistake. Law enforcement is probably one of the very few jobs where you could literally have someone shoot or stab you in the back, just for showing up to your job.
In the majority of our calls that involve a cardiac or something else serious they send extra manpower (engine, or at least a few guys in a utility). There's just too much crap that comes in/out with us: airway kit, O2 bottle, drug box, cardiac monitor/defib, radio/telemetry, thumper, stretcher, etc..
Forget everything you learned in class ;-)
Morgan3820
Ejection Handle Pulled
Yes I am certain it is. But I am not moving out of state. I’m not looking at this is a career. I’m looking at this is something interesting to do while serving my local community.
It has been a while, but I remember the test was dynamic where the amount of questions or difficulty level changed depending on how you were doing, I got done very quickly with mine, called my instructor, he said I ether did very well or completely bombed it, thankfully it was the happier outcome
Zeldman
Touchdown! Greaser!
When I was flying air ambulance one of our pilots became interested in becoming a EMT.
He did so and came back to the company as a EMT and part time pilot. He was young so irregular sleep did not bother him much.
He did so and came back to the company as a EMT and part time pilot. He was young so irregular sleep did not bother him much.
A number of states have moved to the national test for their local licensing.
Morgan3820
Ejection Handle Pulled
North Carolina is always behind the curve on stuff.
Consider yourself lucky.
NREMT has a knack to write questions in a incomprehensible format. So you may know something but if you don't know it exactly the way NREMT wants you to know it, no luck.
I would consider springing for the $180 for the exam. I know you are not doing this for career, but you could take a summer job in some tourist spot if you got the itch.
Morgan3820
Ejection Handle Pulled
I have started doing my ride alongs for my qualifications. Nothing too dramatic.