Starlink Beta - Impressive

denverpilot

denverpilot

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DenverPilot
It works. It works really well.

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Enjoying that Musky aroma?

Any initial info on cost? (Acquisition and ongoing)
 
As someone whose phone number is nearly identical to the hughesnet/direcPC ceo hotline, and thus, having to field endless calls from people wanting to chew them out for their sucky internet...

...this excites me.

That's a lot faster than I thought it would be. Once this goes global, so will I. Thinking about getting a sailboat and peaceing out from polite society, yet staying connected and paid.
 
This guy has a theory about what they’re doing. When I saw this I had a few lightbulbs go on.

 
schmookeeg said:
As someone whose phone number is nearly identical to the hughesnet/direcPC ceo hotline, and thus, having to field endless calls from people wanting to chew them out for their sucky internet...

...this excites me.

That's a lot faster than I thought it would be. Once this goes global, so will I. Thinking about getting a sailboat and peaceing out from polite society, yet staying connected and paid.
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The cruising community is waiting with great enthusiasm, no doubt. My understanding is that the antenna very precisely tracks the satellites as they pass overhead using a motorized gimbal. I would think that due to the constant movement, it will take a while to develop an antenna system that will work on anything other than a vessel on the hook in a very calm anchorage.
 
Brad Z said:
The cruising community is waiting with great enthusiasm, no doubt. My understanding is that the antenna very precisely tracks the satellites as they pass overhead using a motorized gimbal. I would think that due to the constant movement, it will take a while to develop an antenna system that will work on anything other than a vessel on the hook in a very calm anchorage.
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Nope. The motors (at least on the stationary dishes) are simply to automatically tilt it north. Satellite tracking is done by the antenna being a phased array.

This tear down was impressive.

 
So, do Tesla cars have steerable synthetic aperture antennas built into the roof for use with this system?
 
I'm out in the boonies and only have cell service for internet. I've looked at getting starlink but what keeps me from doing is it the FAQ. It says at this time there are no data caps, does that mean there eventually will and if so what? Have you got any info regarding that? Id sure hate to pay $500 and $99 a month to get capped at 50 gig one day.

Our electrical Co-op is starting to offer fiber but it's a slow roll out and still years away from me I beleive.
 
denverpilot said:
Nope. The motors (at least on the stationary dishes) are simply to automatically tilt it north. Satellite tracking is done by the antenna being a phased array.

This tear down was impressive.

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Understood, but the antenna still needs to be pointed in the general direction, which might pose a problem on a pitching and healing sailing vessel (or banking aircraft for that matter). I have no doubt Starlink will get there; maritime and aviation connectivity are not an insignificant market.
 
Larry in TN said:
Sounds like the basis for a second YouTube channel! LOL

Have you seen the Red Poppy Ranch channel? Completely off grid family in Idaho. They recently switched to Starlink.
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Thanks, I haven’t seen them. I’ll check it out.

Technically we are still in the burbs but everyone owns several acres in the area. For whatever reason cable/internet providers don’t go there and it’s well/septic. We do have power so I guess not completely off the grid. Just need internet for the existing channel...no time left over for anything else. :)

Looking forward to Starlink and not seeing my neighbors!
 
Brad Z said:
Understood, but the antenna still needs to be pointed in the general direction, which might pose a problem on a pitching and healing sailing vessel (or banking aircraft for that matter). I have no doubt Starlink will get there; maritime and aviation connectivity are not an insignificant market.
Click to expand...
Brad Z said:
The cruising community is waiting with great enthusiasm, no doubt. My understanding is that the antenna very precisely tracks the satellites as they pass overhead using a motorized gimbal. I would think that due to the constant movement, it will take a while to develop an antenna system that will work on anything other than a vessel on the hook in a very calm anchorage.
Click to expand...
I'll note that cruise ships have had internet for some time now. I agree that the ships are much more stable than a 30 or 50 foot boat, but they still do pitch and roll, yet the internet still works well enough on them while underway.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
I'll note that cruise ships have had internet for some time now. I agree that the ships are much more stable than a 30 or 50 foot boat, but they still do pitch and roll, yet the internet still works well enough on them while underway.
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The one and ONLY time I've taken a cruise on one of those floating hotels the daily charge to use the shipboard internet was outrageous. I waited 'till we had a signal near port and downloaded my email on the cell phone. Which proves once again how cheap we pilots are. :D

For the folks here cruising their own boats, I can see the motivation, but one of the primary reasons I go sailing is to get away from being connected.
 
I have my deposit down for StarLink service as soon as it becomes available here in E TN.

We’ve been cobbling up cellular WiFi solutions for home internet but each has had drawbacks. Current solution is $140/mo, so StarLink is cheaper after the initial hardware.

Wired via Spectrum was an option, but they wanted something like $13,000 to run the line. I assume StarLink will be a similar godsend for all sorts of rural, and even suburban folks in similar situations.
 
GRG55 said:
The one and ONLY time I've taken a cruise on one of those floating hotels the daily charge to use the shipboard internet was outrageous. I waited 'till we had a signal near port and downloaded my email on the cell phone. Which proves once again how cheap we pilots are. :D

For the folks here cruising their own boats, I can see the motivation, but one of the primary reasons I go sailing is to get away from being connected.
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No doubt, but being able to get weather updates five days into a passage is pretty nice to have.
 
*sigh*

1 mile from the switch but CenturyLink won't upgrade the lines in the neighborhood, and we were never wired for cable (OTOH I will NEVER do business with Comcast!)

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FastEddieB said:
Wired via Spectrum was an option, but they wanted something like $13,000 to run the line. I assume StarLink will be a similar godsend for all sorts of rural, and even suburban folks in similar situations.
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Not worth it. This will blow away anything Spectrum can deliver, and you'll never recover that cost.

Starlink, et. al., will do well because the government wants to solve the "broadband to every home" problem and buying $500 dishes is far cheaper than $13,000 to run a cable line with all its limitations. The cable business model is quickly becoming outmoded.
 
Larry in TN said:
SpaceX moves to beam Starlink internet into trucks, boats, and aircraft
Starlink could go mobile — if the FCC approves
https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/8/22319761/spacex-starlink-fcc-internet-cars-boats-aircraft
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And THAT will be a fight at the FCC. The incumbents (VZ, AT&T, T-Mobile) will spend billions in lobbying and writing the rules to try and exclude a new competitor. They've done it in the past, they'll do it now because so much money is at stake.

There are two sides to regulation: yes, it can help the consumer and help set standards, but at the same time it can hurt the consumer as the first-ones-in get to lobby and essentially set the rules to protect their own interests at the same time. Verizon and AT&T are experts at that - and T-Mobile is not far behind.

This will limit what Starlink can do.
 
Brad Z said:
Understood, but the antenna still needs to be pointed in the general direction, which might pose a problem on a pitching and healing sailing vessel (or banking aircraft for that matter). I have no doubt Starlink will get there; maritime and aviation connectivity are not an insignificant market.
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Oh right. I’m talking about the dish they have today. The motors on it wouldn’t come anywhere near being fast or accurate enough to do that. At the relative speeds the satellites are passing I doubt any motorized system will be used at all. Too slow. Especially if they have to use an even lower orbit constellation to make up for smaller antennas and even less gain.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
I'll note that cruise ships have had internet for some time now. I agree that the ships are much more stable than a 30 or 50 foot boat, but they still do pitch and roll, yet the internet still works well enough on them while underway.
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That’s a large gyro stabilized dish.
 
denverpilot said:
Oh right. I’m talking about the dish they have today. The motors on it wouldn’t come anywhere near being fast or accurate enough to do that. At the relative speeds the satellites are passing I doubt any motorized system will be used at all. Too slow. Especially if they have to use an even lower orbit constellation to make up for smaller antennas and even less gain.
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Maybe not. You would be surprised, though, what one can do with synthetic steering using phased arrays. It can be very impressive. Can't say any more than that.
 
wsuffa said:
Maybe not. You would be surprised, though, what one can do with synthetic steering using phased arrays. It can be very impressive. Can't say any more than that.
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I said MOTORIZED. Read it again. I said nothing about phased arrays not being able to keep up.
 
wsuffa said:
The antenna is a phased array. No need for motors at all, if designed properly.
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Exactly. But for true moving use it’ll be smaller (less gain) so it’ll need another (lower/closer) orbital plane, which will have higher relative motion between the antennas.

Which won’t need or even want to use a motor. It’d be way too slow. It’s already too slow for the one sitting dead still in my yard.

We’re saying the same thing. I’m just adding that the relative notion increase to make up for the path loss with a much smaller antenna is going to need much fancier arrays both on the ground AND in orbit.

True mobile use won’t be happening soon. Or they’ll severely degrade it to make it “better than nothing”.

Fixed use on a moving boat may require what the other systems use, a gyro stabilized platform with a phased array sitting on top. And as big or bigger than the home service array. Big radome to protect it.

Mine was definitely “on the edge” in terms of SNR during the blizzard. It has a heater to go with that water shedding cover and it managed to clear itself until the wind hit about 40 knots and it got buried in a drift but it wasn’t able to do more than about 25-35 Mb with some packet loss during that timeframe.

They’ll have to do some mixed method engineering magic to make it happy while moving. And probably launch a different satellite design also, lower.

Really big aircraft or boats they can do s much bigger array. Cars and such, as someone joked, the entire roof may need the array integrated for moving. Once truly stopped and not rocking / moving, all of the above would work fine on the tech they have today, other than the subscriber unit being locked to a particular spot beam / “cell” as some are calling it.
 
wsuffa said:
Maybe not. You would be surprised, though, what one can do with synthetic steering using phased arrays. It can be very impressive. Can't say any more than that.
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yup - synthetic steering using phased arrays is really quite impressive. and apparently some people don't believe you.
 
wsuffa said:
Maybe not. You would be surprised, though, what one can do with synthetic steering using phased arrays. It can be very impressive. Can't say any more than that.
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No need to say any more. A phased array uses the same principles as any other device using waves- light, sound, radio. Intensity, phase, and interference. We use the math to describe holography, optics, an array of hydrophones, and very long baseline interferometry for radio telescopes.
Bob Noel said:
yup - synthetic steering using phased arrays is really quite impressive. and apparently some people don't believe you.
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It is impressive, and I believe you guys.
 
It's also nothing new... I remember seeing the AN/TPQ-36 Firefinder back in the late 70s. Big ol' slab of an antenna that could track multiple artillery rounds in flight and track them back to their origin. Pretty cool stuff, especially when you consider it was running on, if I remember correctly, 8080 hardware.
 
I pre-ordered back in Feb when I first became aware I could. Eagerly awaiting an upgrade from the 2MB local wireless connection I've been on for years.

I'd be thrilled just to be up to 10 down at this point, anything over 100 sounds almost unbelievable.
 
How does it work during a thunderstorm? I know my parents dish always goes out when it rains.
 
EdFred said:
How does it work during a thunderstorm? I know my parents dish always goes out when it rains.
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Haven’t had one yet but it hung in and did 15-25 Mb in the fourth largest snow in CO history when ground temps were still 37F or so and it was coming down as slush balls.

It’ll probably be quite a while until I can report on even a rainstorm or downpour but I’ll try and remember for ya.
 
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