Stadium TFRs?

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NoBShere

Pre-takeoff checklist
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NoBShere
So do I have this correct? If a towered airport lies within a stadium TFR and I want to takeoff to go to dinner outside the TFR and then return all while the TFR is in effect (not sure that the TFR will be in effect for the return flight but maybe), I just need to talk to tower prior to entering TFR area on return (takeoff is a given)? They may or may not give me a squawk code. Is there a possibility that the tower could tell me "no" on the return?
 
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Well, you need to have been cleared or reasonably expect clearance, as in "Bugsmasher 1234 report crossing 520 bridge, expect left base runway 16L."

---Not sure just talking to them meets the intent.

I don't think the Stadium TFR would give cause for them to refuse your request to enter class D.
 
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NoBShere said:
So do I have this correct? If a towered airport lies within a stadium TFR and I want to takeoff to go to dinner outside the TFR and then return all while the TFR is in effect (not sure that the TFR will be in effect for the return flight but maybe), I just need to talk to tower prior to entering TFR area on return (takeoff is a given)?
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yes but it doesn't hurt to be explicit. ("Tower, Skyhawk 12345, 3000 over Lake Albert with information hotel for landing through the stadium TFR")
They may or may not give me a squawk code. Is there a possibility that the tower could tell me "no" on the return?
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TFR or not there's always a slim chance they can say "aircraft calling over the lake remain outside my airspace". I've had that happen without a TFR.
 
You also have to be on a flight plan.
 
asicer said:
Where in this NOTAM does it say that you have to be on a flight plan?

https://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_7_4319.html
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I don't have time to look it up now but it's my understanding that to operate in a TFR you must be on a flight plan. (IFR or VFR) It doesn't say it in the NOTAM but in the FAR's I think. I've heard of other people that have had to open a flight plan on the ground inside a TFR before they take off. I MAY BE WRONG SO LOOK IT UP BEFORE YOU GO!!! Good luck!!!
 
My understanding is different than @lancie00's The stadium TFR at CLL (aka Texas A&M Aggieland) does not require a flight plan, but it does prohibit transient and training operations.

So, I've been inbound VFR many times, with no filed plan, but intending full stop there and no issues.

Also, returning on Saturdays sometimes includes flying through the Stadium TFR for the TCU Horned Frogs. Again, no flight plan needed, just don't loiter in the TFR space.
 
They normally don’t care, might ask you to just not fly directly over the game, just ask, 9/10 no biggie, most I’ve crossed I haven’t been on a flight plan or anything, it’s not some of the more serious TFRs, just talk before you enter.
 
wilkersk said:
Well, you need to have been cleared or reasonably expect clearance, as in "Bugsmasher 1234 report crossing 520 bridge, expect left base runway 16L."

---Not sure just talking to them meets the intent.

I don't think the Stadium TFR would give cause for them to refuse your request to enter class D.
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No clearance is required. Any ATC instruction that send you thru works.
 
It just says to follow ATC instructions:

A) THE AIRCRAFT OPERATION HAS BEEN AUTHORIZED BY ATC FOR OPERATIONAL OR SAFETY PURPOSES, INCLUDING AUTHORIZATION OF FLIGHTS SPECIFICALLY ARRIVING AT OR DEPARTING FROM AN AIRPORT DESIGNATED BY ATC USING STANDARD ATC PROCEDURES AND ROUTES

Also:

PILOTS MUST CONTINUOUSLY SQUAWK AN ATC-ASSIGNED BEACON CODE AND MAINTAIN 2-WAY RADIO CONTACT WITH ATC WHILE OPERATING IN THE DEFINED AIRSPACE.

I would not overthink it.
 
NoBShere said:
So do I have this correct? If a towered airport lies within a stadium TFR and I want to takeoff to go to dinner outside the TFR and then return all while the TFR is in effect (not sure that the TFR will be in effect for the return flight but maybe), I just need to talk to tower prior to entering TFR area on return (takeoff is a given)? They may or may not give me a squawk code. Is there a possibility that the tower could tell me "no" on the return?
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That’s it. Well, besides just talking to the Tower, ya gotta do what they say. They can tell you no. They can tell anyone no anytime, TFR or not. But they don’t do it indiscriminately. The purpose of them is to just avoid fluster clucks of sightseeing planes crowding the sky over the Stadiums. Towers may adjust typical flows of traffic like downwinds on the other side than usual etc. May turn down practice approaches, stuff like that.
 
If you're making a straight-in to 16L/R at KBFI during a Mariners game you're gonna be going almost right over the stadium. Not that you'd care much to see it, given the way they played this year ... :(:rolleyes:
 
Thanks for the replies. Much appreciated.
 
lancie00 said:
I don't have time to look it up now but it's my understanding that to operate in a TFR you must be on a flight plan. (IFR or VFR) It doesn't say it in the NOTAM but in the FAR's I think. I've heard of other people that have had to open a flight plan on the ground inside a TFR before they take off. I MAY BE WRONG SO LOOK IT UP BEFORE YOU GO!!! Good luck!!!
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I think you’re confusing stadium tfr’s with Canada overflights.
 
Pilawt said:
If you're making a straight-in to 16L/R at KBFI during a Mariners game you're gonna be going almost right over the stadium. Not that you'd care much to see it, given the way they played this year ... :(:rolleyes:
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It's pretty far out, but ILS/straight ins to the 28's at PIT go right over both PNC Park and Heinz Field. A few blowout Pirates games I'll watch the 737's and RJ's instead of the game. Hospital helipad right behind the stadiums too.
 
wilkersk said:
Well, you need to have been cleared or reasonably expect clearance, as in "Bugsmasher 1234 report crossing 520 bridge, expect left base runway 16L."

---Not sure just talking to them meets the intent.
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Right. "Talking" is not necessarily "Authorization" the way it is for a regular class C or D operation. Following an ATC instruction is, and the NOTAM used to read a bit closer to that.

lancie00 said:
I don't have time to look it up now but it's my understanding that to operate in a TFR you must be on a flight plan. (IFR or VFR) It doesn't say it in the NOTAM but in the FAR's I think. I've heard of other people that have had to open a flight plan on the ground inside a TFR before they take off. I MAY BE WRONG SO LOOK IT UP BEFORE YOU GO!!! Good luck!!!
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Negative on the flight plan. I think POTUS TFRs might, but there aren't any right now for me to check. Stadium TFRs do not require a flight plan.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Right. "Talking" is not necessarily "Authorization" the way it is for a regular class C or D operation. Following an ATC instruction is, and the NOTAM used to read a bit closer to that.

Negative on the flight plan. I think POTUS TFRs might, but there aren't any right now for me to check. Stadium TFRs do not require a flight plan.
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Deal with the VIP TFR frequently out of KLNA. It is in the inner circle and is shut down. TFR reads that you must be on a filed flight plan (VFR or IFR) and squawking a discrete code to enter the outer ring. Talking to ATC also, no doubt. A lot of folks there use F45 during TFRs, it is in the outer ring and I was flying back after repairing a customer's Cherokee 6 that was stranded in New Smyrna. I was flying an Archer. Anyway, I made the mistake of asking the customer, who did it frequently, what is the procedure for landing at F45. "Just talk to ATC and get a code." Which I did and they had no problem with that but it was wrong and bad advice and shame on me.
 
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My apologies, I was obviously wrong. I don't know where I got the idea that you needed to be on a flight plan. Probably just was thinking about a discrete code.
 
A) THE AIRCRAFT OPERATION HAS BEEN AUTHORIZED BY ATC FOR OPERATIONAL OR SAFETY PURPOSES, INCLUDING AUTHORIZATION OF FLIGHTS SPECIFICALLY ARRIVING AT OR DEPARTING FROM AN AIRPORT DESIGNATED BY ATC USING STANDARD ATC PROCEDURES AND ROUTES

This section of the sporting event TFR used to end with "for operational or safety purposes." I'm not sure when they changed the text, but it seems reasonable to conclude that the FAA has added the latter part specifically to answer this question, and clarify that arrivals and departures are permitted. IME that's how most towers treated it before.
 
EdFred said:
But what if you're inbound (or outbound) and towing a banner ?
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Typically a TFR is scheduled to start an hour an half before and hour and half after game time. If you have a banner you have to stay minimally 3 miles away from the stadium's TFR. These TFR's are a result of 9/11 when they were put in affect.
 
The Skywriters said:
Typically a TFR is scheduled to start an hour an half before and hour and half after game time. If you have a banner you have to stay minimally 3 miles away from the stadium's TFR. These TFR's are a result of 9/11 when they were put in affect.
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Sarcasm: Missed.
 
The Skywriters said:
Typically a TFR is scheduled to start an hour an half before and hour and half after game time. If you have a banner you have to stay minimally 3 miles away from the stadium's TFR. These TFR's are a result of 9/11 when they were put in affect.
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Nope, not 90 minutes... 60 minutes.

"THIS FLIGHT PROHIBITION IS IN EFFECT ONE HOUR BEFORE THE SCHEDULED START UNTIL ONE HOUR AFTER THE END OF A QUALIFYING EVENT."
 
Mike I said:
Nope, not 90 minutes... 60 minutes.

"THIS FLIGHT PROHIBITION IS IN EFFECT ONE HOUR BEFORE THE SCHEDULED START UNTIL ONE HOUR AFTER THE END OF A QUALIFYING EVENT."
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yes, correct! It is 1 hour before and 1 hour after.
 
The Skywriters said:
Typically a TFR is scheduled to start an hour an half before and hour and half after game time. If you have a banner you have to stay minimally 3 miles away from the stadium's TFR. These TFR's are a result of 9/11 when they were put in affect.
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They weren't put into effect right away after 9/11, and let's be honest, they have nothing at all to do with security.

However, the frenzy of paranoia surrounding 9/11 is certainly what led to their creation. The major sports leagues saw their opportunity to eliminate the one source of ad revenue that they had no control over and got no cut of, and started screaming "Security! The sky is falling!" to lawmakers while pushing money into their campaign coffers, and we got the joke that is the stadium TFR.

Three miles isn't for "security". A freaking 150 would be through the TFR and crashed in the stadium (if that's what we're supposed to be protecting people from) before any responders would have even gotten the call, much less got in their aircraft, fired up, and flew to the stadium. It is solely there to get rid of the banner towers.
 
It did get rid of the banner planes and shut down a lot of banner towing businesses that had been operating for over 30 plus years.
 
The Skywriters said:
It did get rid of the banner planes and shut down a lot of banner towing businesses that had been operating for over 30 plus years.
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And hence you know why Stadiums and Disney managed to get their own TFRs. Disney and major league sports don't want to lose their advertising monopolies on the venue.
 
lancie00 said:
I don't have time to look it up now but it's my understanding that to operate in a TFR you must be on a flight plan. (IFR or VFR) It doesn't say it in the NOTAM but in the FAR's I think. I've heard of other people that have had to open a flight plan on the ground inside a TFR before they take off. I MAY BE WRONG SO LOOK IT UP BEFORE YOU GO!!! Good luck!!!
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That's presidential ... all others talking and squawking will do fine.

I got aimed directly THROUGH the Disney TFR by SoCal each time I was flying Fullerton to Catalina ... confirmed it each time and controller said cleared through "for the view" ... although only the Matahorn is recognizable, the rest just looks like factory roof tops.
 
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