Stadium TFRs = Unplanned Lake Michigan cruise

mikea

mikea

Touchdown! Greaser!
Gone West
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iWin
Thanks, to TWO stadium TFRS popping up on ForeFlight, I took an unplanned tour of the Chicago cribs way out in Lake Michigan. It looks like it was Soldier Field and Northwestern.

The last time I had to do this diversion, it was a hazy, hazy, hazy July 3. With no warning, Meigs tower said the airspace was closed, where I had no horizon out front over the water. I was set up do a JFK, Jr but I went on instruments and had a view of Chicago out my right window.

Somehow I don't think I was only one out there. Foreflight with my Stratus showed me several planes busting the TFR even, "Traffic at 10 o'clock at your altitude."

Suckage.
 

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bears playing in soldier field and the cubs playing in wrigley. both lost.
 
3 mi or 3000 all is all you needed steer around those stadiums.
 
If you are in controlled airspace talking to the facility can they vector you/fly you through them?

For instance there are some class B and C's where it's just right off the departure end, or on the arrival end , could you fly through them in that instance if being vectored and controlled by those agencies?
 
Chicago approach has never cleared me into a tfr on thr skyline. And they can't or don't try to see the tfr's on the skyline. I flew between 70-80 skyline intro flights this summer. All talking to chicago approach. Had multiple controllers tell me no when I requested entry after saying they were unaware there was a tfr

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
Potomac approach lets me through anytime I have a discrete code, even calls the banner towing traffic for me.
 
I nearly committed a JFK Jr. myself when diverted over the water by airspace. The mist and water make an insidious combination. Be careful out there.
 
If you get down to about 50 AGL (AWL?) you can usually get enough surface texture to keep the shiny side up (at least during the day).
 
if you are not instrument rated, don't have an autopilot, and you are put in a situation where you have no horizon - either 'unable' or 'I have been vectored into IMC and need to declare an emergency."

Because guess what? Not being instrument rated, with out a autopilot, in non-VMC conditions and no confidence in your ability to keep the blue side up IS one.
 
comanchepilot said:
if you are not instrument rated, don't have an autopilot, and you are put in a situation where you have no horizon - either 'unable' or 'I have been vectored into IMC and need to declare an emergency."

Because guess what? Not being instrument rated, with out a autopilot, in non-VMC conditions and no confidence in your ability to keep the blue side up IS one.
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Yeah. When I got set up for a JFK, I was talking to Meigs tower, but I didn't have the idea to tell them it was trouble. I was mostly telling myself to avoid losing control and look at AI and the resist the urge to lock my arms on the yoke.
 
rk911 said:
bears playing in soldier field and the cubs playing in wrigley. both lost.
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It looked like the 2nd TFR was up north for the Wildcats. Wrigley would have been further south and not extend too far into the lake.
 
comanchepilot said:
if you are not instrument rated, don't have an autopilot, and you are put in a situation where you have no horizon - either 'unable' or 'I have been vectored into IMC and need to declare an emergency."

Because guess what? Not being instrument rated, with out a autopilot, in non-VMC conditions and no confidence in your ability to keep the blue side up IS one.
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Speak for yourself. The first time I hit it I was thoroughly unprepared, and had some real problems. I've hit this several more times in the same place without issue. Get on the instruments, keep the shiny side up. Not an emergency if you know what's going on and what you have to do.
 
JustinD said:
If you are in controlled airspace talking to the facility can they vector you/fly you through them?

For instance there are some class B and C's where it's just right off the departure end, or on the arrival end , could you fly through them in that instance if being vectored and controlled by those agencies?
Click to expand...

ATL approach does it. I've taken off from Peachtree (NE of ATL) and they had me cross mid field headed south. Forget the altitude, but have done that a few times there. Best place to cross is midfield.
 
Read the TFRs. Entry is permitted for operational purposes when in communication with ATC. No clearance is required, and as you note, ATC is not usually aware of these.
 
mikea said:
It looked like the 2nd TFR was up north for the Wildcats. Wrigley would have been further south and not extend too far into the lake.
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could be but I thought the wildcats play on saturdays.

question for those more experienced. my understanding is that stadium TFRs when games are being played are automatic (for lack of a better term) but these two are not showing up in the TFR list at http://tfr.faa.gov/tfr2/list.jsp. why? in fact when I sort the list by state I see no TFRs for Illinois. ???
 
There is a general TFR covering stadiums. It's up to you to figure out when. At least they finally put the stadium locations on sectionals though.
 
Holy necropost! I was confused by the mention of Meigs Tower.
 
rk911 said:
in fact when I sort the list by state I see no TFRs for Illinois. ???
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FAA does not list the times that stadium TFR's are active. It's up to you to check the NCAA, NFL, MLB, NASCAR schedules.
Tools like Sky Vector and, as I understand it, will highlight those for you. But, neither FAA sources nor 1800wxbrief will help in any way shape or form.
 
I told everyone back then that if JFK, Jr., in his fancy Saratoga, had pressed the HDG button he'd be alive today. . . .

Sorry guys, but you get into unexpected IMC and you start feeling the panic creep up, you don't declare and get some help or get turned back around where you can see the ground . . . its your funeral.

Some guys have had an instrument rating forever and just don't see it as an issue any longer - because the gauges are second nature - but many don't.

A man has got to know his limitations. Its not unreasonable to know yours . . . don't let ATC put you in a position where you need to reach into your bucket of luck. . .
 
Harold Rutila said:
Read the TFRs. Entry is permitted for operational purposes when in communication with ATC. No clearance is required, and as you note, ATC is not usually aware of these.
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Just clicked on a stadium TFR near me, and a few others. It only says if you're in contact with ATC for operational and safety of flight purposes, is just being vectored by atc for a normal day to day operation considered that? Most TFR's that allow entry if in communication with ATC are worded a bit differently than that
 
Clip4 said:
You can't get a Bravo clearance if you never request one.
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You're not from around here are ya?

Chicago began actually answering VFR flibs only about 3 years ago. AFAIK, it's always "Maintain clear of Bravo," now unless it's 1 AM.
 
Clip4 said:
You can't get a Bravo clearance if you never request one.
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I've gotten plenty of Bravo clearances without requesting. However, I've never gotten a Bravo clearance without being in radio contact with the controlling agency.

Not that I know of, anyway.
 
mikea said:
You're not from around here are ya?

Chicago began actually answering VFR flibs only about 3 years ago. AFAIK, it's always "Maintain clear of Bravo," now unles

No, I am not from around there, but I have gotten VFR B clearances in that airspace.
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asicer said:
I've gotten plenty of Bravo clearances without requesting. However, I've never gotten a Bravo clearance without being in radio contact with the controlling agency.

Not that I know of, anyway.
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The only Bravo clearances I've gotten were without asking for them. The one time I asked, I was denied. :rolleyes:
 
I've gotten a couple Bravo admittances, but never from Chicago. They answer, but its always the same thing. "Remain clear of the Bravo".
 
I got handed off to Chicago Approach on flight following once, and even they they never answered me! I was close to my destination, and the tower (KARR) seemed used to it since I just switched to them myself instead.
 
steingar said:
I've gotten a couple Bravo admittances, but never from Chicago. They answer, but its always the same thing. "Remain clear of the Bravo".
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We once called from south of downtown over the lake and got, "What is your destination? You are cleared to enter the Bravo and fly direct." It was 1 AM. It was very strange to see that part of the city.
 
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