Sporty's new $1595 electric backup AI

* Reserve your copy now for August delivery.
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Looks good. Great price. It's looks like we owe another thanks to Hal. (He was strong supporter of Meigs.)

You buy one first. I'll stay tuned to see how well it holds up for the early adopters. :D
 
We will be buying a backup AI soon...does anyone one have any experience with the lifesaver gyro? This one looks like a good one too and it's less than half the price. hmmmm
 
How do you know if you are standard rate. I see the inclinometer, but I don't see a std rate hash.
 
N2212R said:
How do you know if you are standard rate. I see the inclinometer, but I don't see a std rate hash.
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You memorize the bank angles for standard rate at your standard cruise and approach speeds.
 
When the airlines allowed another AI in lieu of the turn and slip, several of them seemed to miss the rate of turn indicator also. As Ron said, you turn to a degree of bank. Now, if you lost your AI and were having to use the backup, making a perfect standard rate turn may not be your highest priority!! The AI is sure easier to use in turbulence than a turn coordinator for most folks. Then you get into the which on is working challenge if one is winding down and the other is properly indicating. Of course, HSI, IVSI and other primary instruments can help there, but you'd have to be cross checking actively to catch it quickly.

Talking about changes in Attitude Indicators--I still kinna miss those that had the "manual erector".;)

Best,

Dave
 
Ron Levy said:
You memorize the bank angles for standard rate at your standard cruise and approach speeds.
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Is that TAS or IAS? If it's TAS, now I've got more calculations to do, not something I want to be doing.
 
N2212R said:
Is that TAS or IAS? If it's TAS, now I've got more calculations to do, not something I want to be doing.
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Most birds cruise at full throttle and a fairly constant TAS regardless of altitude/IAS so the error at cruise speed will be negligible if the pilot simply memorizes one bank angle for cruise operation.

Second, figure 2 percent per thousand error IAS versus TAS. Figure most folks don't make instrument approaches at airports above Denver altitudes. Those two provisos makes for no more than 11% error if you used IAS instead of TAS for the approach speed and used one bank angle for your standard (IAS) approach speed. 134 second per 360 degree turn versus 120 seconds worst case. No biggie. Certainly not enough to bring ATC out of their seats and more than enough accuracy if timing turns to headings.
 
Airliners don't make standard rate turns. Most all of them are limited to 25 degrees bank, which is well under standard rate at the speeds they fly, even on approach.
 
Ron Levy said:
Airliners don't make standard rate turns. Most all of them are limited to 25 degrees bank, which is well under standard rate at the speeds they fly, even on approach.
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Ron, I think you meant to say "in standard operations airliners do not exceed 25 degrees of bank". This is for passenger comfort. During flight testing they definitely exceed 25 degrees (by a lot), and just like with other aircraft, G-loads would be limiting, not bank angle.

Jeff
 
I was all set to go with the electronic AI that Ken has and I was going to put in one of the STEC Turn Coordinator auto pilots.

Actually what I want is a smaller electric back up AI that fits in the spot where the clock goes.

Len
 
Len Lanetti said:
I was all set to go with the electronic AI that Ken has and I was going to put in one of the STEC Turn Coordinator auto pilots.

Actually what I want is a smaller electric back up AI that fits in the spot where the clock goes.

Len
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The Tiger I flew had an S-TEC 30 autopilot. First time I've bothered to use one. I'd read up on it, and found it easy to use.
 
Now, that's interesting product. Is it "certified" in any way ?
 
jdwatson said:
Now, that's interesting product. Is it "certified" in any way ?
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You talking about the Sporty's AI? Yes, it's TSO'd.

If you're asking about the mini electronic one, no, it's not. I have a version that fits a 3-inch hole. I had a 12V aux plug installed under my panel. I put dual lock on the front of the unit and on the inside of my panel. Reach up and pop it in place, plug it in and go. It's a portable installation. There are two rule-sticklers from the local FSDO who I let fly my airplane occasionally for tailwheel proficiency. One asked me to placard it "For VFR use only" but other than that no hassle at all.
 
How does the Sportys' AI compare with the one from Mid-Continent Instruments called LifeSaverGyro ? Other than price of course !!
 
jdwatson said:
How does the Sportys' AI compare with the one from Mid-Continent Instruments called LifeSaverGyro ? Other than price of course !!
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That's the $3012 question. AFaIK Sporty's version lacks the backup battery and Mid-Continent want's an additional $208 for the inclinometer. MC's is also available in a couple different display configurations as well as adjusted for three different panel tilts. MC claims 7500 hour MTBF, Sporty's makes no reliablity claime AFaIK.
 
lancefisher said:
That's the $3012 question. AFaIK Sporty's version lacks the backup battery and Mid-Continent want's an additional $208 for the inclinometer. MC's is also available in a couple different display configurations as well as adjusted for three different panel tilts. MC claims 7500 hour MTBF, Sporty's makes no reliablity claime AFaIK.
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Mid-continent also has a non battery backup AI that I have found as cheap as 3085. That is still twice as much as the sporty's version...
 
See also www.gyrohouse.com I bought a TSO'd RC Allen electric AI (lighted) about three years ago for a Piper and it is still selling new (outright - no exchange) for around $2000, which is about $400-$500 more than I paid. It was very difficult to find one "lighted" at that time. It broke down during the warranty period, but other than that, it has been fine. Good repair service at RC Allen. I didn't replace the turn coordinator since I had another spot for it.
 
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Gary Sortor said:
See also www.gyrohouse.com I bought a TSO'd RC Allen electric AI (lighted) about three years ago for a Piper and it is still selling new (outright - no exchange) for around $2000, which is about $400-$500 more than I paid. It was very difficult to find one "lighted" at that time. It broke down during the warranty period, but other than that, it has been fine. Good repair service at RC Allen. I didn't replace the turn coordinator since I had another spot for it.
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The rumor mill which includes several avionics shops says the RC Allen electric AI's are very trouble prone and/or short lived. It's hard to say if the failures they experienced were outliers, handling induced, or typical though.
 
lancefisher said:
The rumor mill which includes several avionics shops says the RC Allen electric AI's are very trouble prone and/or short lived. It's hard to say if the failures they experienced were outliers, handling induced, or typical though.
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My shop will not install RC Allen electric gyros without the owner signing a waiver saying they won't come back and complain when the thing fails.
 
lancefisher said:
The rumor mill which includes several avionics shops says the RC Allen electric AI's are very trouble prone and/or short lived. It's hard to say if the failures they experienced were outliers, handling induced, or typical though.
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Even the RCA vacuum gyros don't last more than a few hundred hours.
 
I like the words surrounding the Mid-continent version of this. I didn't see whether it was TSO'd or not. If I were to have the cash, the battery backup would my choice by far.
 
Ken Ibold said:
You mean like this one ...
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Ken,

Yep, I have that web site book marked.

Due to engine expense I've got a feeling I won't be doing anything that the plane doesn't actually require this year.

The list of things to do is getting shorter though (in no particular order):
  • Backup Electric AI.
  • Two Axis Autopilot
  • HSI
  • Panel Mount IFR Approach Certified GPS WAAS Capable, satalite download weather display capable, sferics display capable, traffic display capable (a WAAS capable Garmin 530 would fill the bill)
  • Modern audio panel with built in intercom, wired for audio input
  • Weather download capability
  • JPI EDM 900/930
  • 4th fuel bladder per wing (won't do this 'till the kids are flying their own planes for useful load reasons).
Len
 
N2212R said:
Is that TAS or IAS? If it's TAS, now I've got more calculations to do, not something I want to be doing.
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Use IAS, it'll be close enough, probably closer than you'll be able to interpolate the bank angle anyway.
 
Len Lanetti said:
Actually what I want is a smaller electric back up AI that fits in the spot where the clock goes.

Len
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Here is another example of a small electric backup AI:

[font=HELVETICA,ARIAL]Mid-Continent offers mini gyro at lower cost[/font]

DALLAS — Mid-Continent Instruments now offers a two-inch "mini" gyro at the same cost as its 4200-series three-inch attitude indicators. At the show today Mid-Continent showed off the attitude indicator, also from the 4200 series, as a backup to both traditional gyros and electronic flight information systems (EFISs). The $3,839 list price meets that of the standard-sized attitude indicator; the smaller unit runs on 10 to 32 volts direct current (VDC) and is TSOed under C4a and meets DO-160D standards. Internal LED lighting also sets the attitude indicator apart.
 
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