Sport Cruiser

mcpilot

Pre-Flight
Joined
Aug 10, 2013
Messages
37
Display Name

Display name:
Mcpilot
Just curious... Not seeing any of these for sale on TAP or Controller. The link to the US dealer on the manufacturer's page is not good either.

Does anyone know the status of this aircraft? I am looking for an LSA and this and otehrs caught my attention...

Regards

MM
 
Check with Patrick Arnzen at Thrust Flight (Addison, TX). Czech Sport Aircraft folded their operations in Utah (formerly Sebastian, TX) and went back to the long time distributor Thrust Flight (formerly US Sport Aircraft.)

If interested in the Sportcruiser, join us at SCflier.com for more marque specific discussions.
 
Check with Patrick Arnzen at Thrust Flight (Addison, TX). Czech Sport Aircraft folded their operations in Utah (formerly Sebastian, TX) and went back to the long time distributor Thrust Flight (formerly US Sport Aircraft.)

If interested in the Sportcruiser, join us at SCflier.com for more marque specific discussions.



Thank you... Just signed up!!
 
Patrick Arnzen is one of the good ones in these aviation parts. And smart too.

about the same time as the LSA market was stalling, he chose to expand the flight school side to create Thrust Flight. The unsold sport cruisers went into the school and have been putting in the hours ever since. I encounter them all over the place flying myself and the Doctor bonanza.
 
I am surprised to hear this news. I am thinking that as the boomers go in to their retirement, that the market will grow fast...
 
I am surprised to hear this news. I am thinking that as the boomers go in to their retirement, that the market will grow fast...
I think BasicMed put a bit of a kibosh on that aspect of sport privileges. If your regular physician doesn't think you should be flying you probably shouldn't be and you may be violating the regs if you fly anyway.
 
I think BasicMed put a bit of a kibosh on that aspect of sport privileges. If your regular physician doesn't think you should be flying you probably shouldn't be and you may be violating the regs if you fly anyway.


I think you might be right... I have to say though The planes, Sport Cruiser, Bristell, Tecnam, all look like great bang for the buck... I would rather have one of these than a 60 year old Mooney etc
 
I think you might be right... I have to say though The planes, Sport Cruiser, Bristell, Tecnam, all look like great bang for the buck... I would rather have one of these than a 60 year old Mooney etc
Agree with this.

Many of the LSA’s have some impressive performance numbers and look very nice when compared to “full size” GA aircraft.
 
I think you might be right... I have to say though The planes, Sport Cruiser, Bristell, Tecnam, all look like great bang for the buck... I would rather have one of these than a 60 year old Mooney etc
As always that depends on your mission. You need to look at the specific LSA and it's limitations. The max 120 KCAS cruise at continuous max power sounds good but most are slower. The SportCruiser Vno is 108. Best speed at max continuous power is just about 110 KTAS at a bit over 6 GPH book (I've seen higher fuel burns). Then there's that nasty 1320 lb maximum weight thing. The SportCruiser I'm teaching in has a useful load of only 464.5 lbs. Run some numbers. In our case, we insist on at least half tanks at the beginning of a flight. That takes us down to under 375 lbs for passengers, bags, and whatever. That ain't a lot and if you have it, those 15 gallons aren't going to take you very far between fuel stops. (Edit-and that's with the BRS and wheel pants removed)

If that fits your mission, that's great, but compare it to the 50-60 year old Mooney C you mentioned. Your passenger and the full 52 gallons of fuel. 11 GPH at 70% power while doing 135 to 140 knots. Vno is 130. And for some reason some Mooneys are actually faster than the hype. I have access to an 1967 C that I have to throttle back to 65% power and below to keep it out of the yellow arc when it's bumpy, so the fuel burn comes down to about 9, sometimes less.

Yeah, when I want to just mess around locally or take a short hamburger (or Pik n Pig) flight, I love that sleek SportCruiser with a panel that will rival a G1000. But if I want to go somewhere, other choices are far better. Even limiting it to VFR.
 
Last edited:
Czech SportCruiser no longer has a manufacturer presence in the US. Too bad. I'm teaching in one and love it.
The designer for the sport cruiser went on to design the Bristell. If you are in PA, come down I'll take you for a ride depending on the size of course. The Bristell costs more, but then it's full of updates and newer avionics than most of the Sport Cruisers you see on the market.
 
The designer for the sport cruiser went on to design the Bristell. If you are in PA, come down I'll take you for a ride depending on the size of course. The Bristell costs more, but then it's full of updates and newer avionics than most of the Sport Cruisers you see on the market.
I may take you up on that some day :D

I'm familiar with the Bristell history and some of the things they are doing. The also seem quite poised for the maybe weight increase. I understand the have an experimental with a turbo that has a 1620 max gross.
 
As always that depends on your mission. You need to look at the specific LSA and it's limitations. The max 120 KCAS cruise at continuous max power sounds good but most are slower. The SportCruiser Vno is 108. Best speed at max continuous power is just about 110 KTAS at a bit over 6 GPH book (I've seen higher fuel burns). Then there's that nasty 1320 lb maximum weight thing. The SportCruiser I'm teaching in has a useful load of only 464.5 lbs. Run some numbers. In our case, we insist on at least half tanks at the beginning of a flight. That takes us down to under 375 lbs for passengers, bags, and whatever. That ain't a lot and if you have it, those 15 gallons aren't going to take you very far between fuel stops.

If that fits your mission, that's great, but compare it to the 50-60 year old Mooney C you mentioned. Your passenger and the full 52 gallons of fuel. 11 GPH at 70% power while doing 135 to 140 knots. Vno is 130. And for some reason some Mooneys are actually faster than the hype. I have access to an 1967 C that I have to throttle back to 65% power and below to keep it out of the yellow arc when it's bumpy, so the fuel burn comes down to about 9, sometimes less.

Yeah, when I want to just mess around locally or take a short hamburger (or Pik n Pig) flight, I love that sleek SportCruiser with a panel that will rival a G1000. But if I want to go somewhere, other choices are far better. Even limiting it to VFR.
Couldn't agree more. I can see 118 @5500 in the 914 Bristell The new 915's as ELSA are simply insane. I'm burning just over 6 GPH at cruise the weight is an issue, but in the 912/914 Bristells you can still see easy 525lb with Glass Panel. We have a 31 gallon tank as well so it leaves lots of options, I don't like flying more than 2-2.5 hrs anyway.
 
Bristell seems to the LSA market much like the Cirrus to the certified market. I've looked at them and when they up the useful a bit more will retire to one (right now i need 5 seats.)
 
Bristell seems to the LSA market much like the Cirrus to the certified market. I've looked at them and when they up the useful a bit more will retire to one (right now i need 5 seats.)
Yes, I’m hopeful when mosiac comes out they can push useful load to something like 1420

I think based on the fit and finish of the Bristell, I'd agree with your Cirrus analogy.
 
I think BasicMed put a bit of a kibosh on that aspect of sport privileges. If your regular physician doesn't think you should be flying you probably shouldn't be and you may be violating the regs if you fly anyway.

I disagree. Basic Med only applies to folks that held a valid FAA medical sometime after July 14, 2006. There are 100s of millions of people that would not qualify for basic med even though they are medically qualified for sport pilot without violating regs.
 
I disagree. Basic Med only applies to folks that held a valid FAA medical sometime after July 14, 2006. There are 100s of millions of people that would not qualify for basic med even though they are medically qualified for sport pilot without violating regs.
Just wondering. How many of those hundreds of millions hold a pilot certificate of any kind? And how many of those who hold a certificate are in the boomer category "that aspect" refers to?
 
Just wondering. How many of those hundreds of millions hold a pilot certificate of any kind? And how many of those who hold a certificate are in the boomer category "that aspect" refers to?

That's the point. They all are potential pilots. I talk with many folks approaching retirement that have always wanted to fly but never had the time. Retirement affords them the time they always lacked. These potential pilots have never had a medical certificate to qualify them for basic med. This doesn't mean that they are not medically qualified per the FAA regulations.
 
Look at the Arion LS-1 Lightning.
I've flown the LS-1, the Czech Sport,and 3 different Tecnams, the J-bird, and they are all great planes.
The LS-1 is, hands down, the best plane of the bunch. Vne of 180, more shoulder room, more comfortable, and faster than a 172.
Give Nick a call down in Shelbyville. See if you can get a ride.
 
@wanttaja, how reliable are the Jabiru engines?
 
I am surprised to hear this news. I am thinking that as the boomers go in to their retirement, that the market will grow fast...
Pretty sure well over half of the baby boomers are already retired. Change that to “age out” of flying and your point still stands.
 
Pretty sure well over half of the baby boomers are already retired. Change that to “age out” of flying and your point still stands.
I would love you and @lsaway to be right, but I haven't seen signs of it. Perhaps you guys have.

I think I live in what I think you would describe as an ideal target community and they even have a "boomer CFI" available (my business tagline is "...because you always wanted to"). And we have an rental LSA available too. Being a pilot I can't help talking about it with my golf and tennis groups when we play.

As we pilots often do I think you are overstating the attraction. "Hundreds of millions"? The total pilot population is not even 3/4 of one million. That includes student pilots who may or may not complete training. It looks like if they do it only serves to keep the total non-student population relatively constant at less than a half million. The total sport pilot population after 18 years of availability is less than 1% of the total including students and that's higher than I expected to see. OTOH, there has been a surge in the student pilot population post-COVID and maybe a bunch of those are headed to sport (if they finish).

upload_2022-4-7_8-52-13.png
 
I would love you and @lsaway to be right, but I haven't seen signs of it. Perhaps you guys have.

I think I live in what I think you would describe as an ideal target community and they even have a "boomer CFI" available (my business tagline is "...because you always wanted to"). And we have an rental LSA available too. Being a pilot I can't help talking about it with my golf and tennis groups when we play.

As we pilots often do I think you are overstating the attraction. "Hundreds of millions"? The total pilot population is not even 3/4 of one million. That includes student pilots who may or may not complete training. It looks like if they do it only serves to keep the total non-student population relatively constant at less than a half million. The total sport pilot population after 18 years of availability is less than 1% of the total including students and that's higher than I expected to see. OTOH, there has been a surge in the student pilot population post-COVID and maybe a bunch of those are headed to sport (if they finish).

One number that may be untrackable, the number of certificated Private Pilot that simply fly under Sport Pilot rules. Granted, I definitely believe BasicMed was the death knell for the Sport Pilot class. Not that all pilots would qualify for BasicMed, but a lot would. The market for LSA aircraft also quickly passed saturation as every manufacturer under the sun fielded their own version. The supply overwhelmed the actual demand.
 
I would love you and @lsaway to be right, but I haven't seen signs of it. Perhaps you guys have.

I think I live in what I think you would describe as an ideal target community and they even have a "boomer CFI" available (my business tagline is "...because you always wanted to"). And we have an rental LSA available too. Being a pilot I can't help talking about it with my golf and tennis groups when we play.

As we pilots often do I think you are overstating the attraction. "Hundreds of millions"? The total pilot population is not even 3/4 of one million. That includes student pilots who may or may not complete training. It looks like if they do it only serves to keep the total non-student population relatively constant at less than a half million. The total sport pilot population after 18 years of availability is less than 1% of the total including students and that's higher than I expected to see. OTOH, there has been a surge in the student pilot population post-COVID and maybe a bunch of those are headed to sport (if they finish).

View attachment 105972
Sad thing is too many boomers seem to prefer to see their bird rot back to the earth from which it came rather than sell it. :(
 
That table does not include individuals such as myself who have a private ticket and no longer have a medical and are flying under the sport pilot rules.
Of course it doesn't but that wasn't the point. The sub thread started with my comment that many of those who no longer have medicals had medicals valid as of July, 16 years ago, and are operating under BasicMed rather than under sport rules. Then it moved into me disagreeing that there were hundreds of millions of frustrated non-pilots just chomping at the bit to buy an LSA and get a sport certificate. That's the extent of my looking at the chart. I don't claim it suggests anything else.
 
The sub thread started with my comment that many of those who no longer have medicals had medicals valid as of July, 16 years ago, and are operating under BasicMed rather than under sport rules.
Yes. And many of us who no longer have medicals are operating under sport rules for a number of potential reasons. No one knows how many, and there is (currently) no way to find out.
 
Yes. And many of us who no longer have medicals are operating under sport rules for a number of potential reasons. No one knows how many, and there is (currently) no way to find out.
Agreed. I am working with both a sport pilot who has not flown for a number of years and a private pilot who wants to exercise sport privileges and is beyond the BasicMed dates. I'm just not sure that translated into a huge market for LSAs compared with the huge market that existed before BasicMed came along. But that's just my assesment of the situation.
 
I disagree. Basic Med only applies to folks that held a valid FAA medical sometime after July 14, 2006. There are 100s of millions of people that would not qualify for basic med even though they are medically qualified for sport pilot without violating regs.
Anything that involves FAA is questionable today.

That's the point. They all are potential pilots. I talk with many folks approaching retirement that have always wanted to fly but never had the time. Retirement affords them the time they always lacked. These potential pilots have never had a medical certificate to qualify them for basic med. This doesn't mean that they are not medically qualified per the FAA regulations.
Anytime that regulations include "covering from liability" it is never a good thing. These rules could be relaxed and the safety record would likely not move.
 
@wanttaja, how reliable are the Jabiru engines?

I have several ways to assess engine reliability. In this case, it's based on the total number of accidents involving aircraft with that type of engine mounted, vs. the number of cases where the accident was caused by power issues. Power issues include engine-related mechanical failures and those cases where the NTSB was unable to determine a reason for the engine to quit. It does not include cases of pilot mismanagement.

These results are for *all* types of homebuilt aircraft....fixed wing, helicopters, gyros, etc.

Rotax four-stroke engines: 14.7% out of 463 accidents.
Certified aircraft engines: 17.2% out of 2140 accidents
Jabiru: 22.9% out of 118 accidents
Two-stroke engines: 33.6% out of 153 accidents
Auto engine conversions: 37.7% out of 501 accidents

Jabiru had some issues early on; the rate for Jabiru drops nearly a full percentage point if only 2011-2020 are considered (82 accidents).

As mentioned, these results are for all type of aircraft. The engine-failure accident rate for the auto engine conversions rises quite a bit if only fixed-wing aircraft are considered...to 43%. The two-stroke rate rises ~2 percentage points, and the Rotax four-stroke value is up about half a percent.

Keep in mind, this is Experimental Amateur-Built aircraft, not the Special Light Sport/Experimental Light Sport Jabiru-powered aircraft.

Also, a reminder: This is NOT the percentage of aircraft with a given engine type that have an accident. This is a percentage of aircraft that DID have an accident.

Ron Wanttaja
 
As one who earned a private certificate in the 70s, took 40+ years off, then wanted to start up again, Basic Med seems like a stopgap measure designed only to benefit a limited population (those who held valid medicals as of the relevant date), and will become irrelevant as those pilots age out.

I didn't know about Basic Med in time to renew my medical certificate by then, and would have a hard time clearing all the FAA hoops to do it now. So Sport Pilot is the only option for me, and for many other would-be pilots in the future.
 
As one who earned a private certificate in the 70s, took 40+ years off, then wanted to start up again, Basic Med seems like a stopgap measure designed only to benefit a limited population (those who held valid medicals as of the relevant date), and will become irrelevant as those pilots age out.

I didn't know about Basic Med in time to renew my medical certificate by then, and would have a hard time clearing all the FAA hoops to do it now. So Sport Pilot is the only option for me, and for many other would-be pilots in the future.
Agree, it doesn't solve the problem and I'm not sure the FAA has any desire to create more GA pilots Short-sighted at best.
 
Back
Top