Spoilers/speedbrake on takeoff

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ted6357

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If I am a passenger on an airliner [let us say a B737-800] and the spoilers/speedbrakes were extended fully prior to takeoff during taxi, the aircraft lines up on the runway and the engines spool for takeoff with the spoilers/speedbrakes still extended, shall I raise a high alert for the flight attendants to contact and alert the flight deck immediately so the takeoff could be aborted?
 
No. Ordinary crosswind takeoff. The spoilers assist with roll at low speeds.
 
When the aileron is fully deflected like rolling it into the wind (crosswind takeoff) the spoilers will come up as well
 
evapilotaz said:
OP are you 737 type rated?
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I doubt, but why the question? Or are you saying pilots never make mistakes?

My dad was on a flight in the early 80s where the pilots forgot to lower the flaps until mid-way down the roll. He was ready to hit the button, not that it would do much good at that point. He did ask the pilot about it after the flight who turned beat red and my dad filed a NASA report.

I always like sitting near the wings so I can check flap positions prior to takeoff. I have no illusions of doing any good even if the pilot messed up, though.

Edit: Upon re-reading, this post sounded a bit snarky and that's not how I meant it. I like seeing people ask questions and dislike the idea that you can't have a thought or a question about something unless you're certified or have some status.
 
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Ryanb said:
When the aileron is fully deflected like rolling it into the wind (crosswind takeoff) the spoilers will come up as well
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In the scenario above in the original post, it assumes that all the spoilers on both wings are extended and not only on one wing.
 
The thing about lots of modern aircraft (not the 738, but definitely airbus aircraft) is that FBW flight controls may make you think something is wrong when in fact they are operating correctly. In many cases control surfaces on FBW aircraft are dual purpose, being ailerons/flaperons/spoilerons etc... vice simply having one purpose. Also, flap positions may change with AOA, airspeed and power changes throughout the takeoff roll.

Food for thought.
 
MD80 split elevator has gotten a lot of us in the past.
Now when flying commercial I read or enjoy the scenery. At some point you just have to trust others.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
MD80 split elevator has gotten a lot of us in the past.
Now when flying commercial I read or enjoy the scenery. At some point you just have to trust others.
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Definitely a good point. For some reason, I just need to check flaps if I can. I think it's because that and the wind sheer accidents were big when I was growing up and flying on airliners often. I think it's the only item that still unsettles me when flying commercial.
 
Speedbrakes out of takeoff position is one of the things that will set off the takeoff configuration warning. Push the throttles up and you get the warning horn.
 
Timmer said:
I always like sitting near the wings so I can check flap positions prior to takeoff. I have no illusions of doing any good even if the pilot messed up, though.

Edit: Upon re-reading, this post sounded a bit snarky and that's not how I meant it. I like seeing people ask questions and dislike the idea that you can't have a thought or a question about something unless you're certified or have some status.
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Do you know what the certified takeoff flap positions are for each aircraft you ride on? Can you tell the difference in, say, flaps at 15 or flaps at 25?
 
Nope, but I can see if the slats and flaps aren't even down at all.

As I said, there's nothing to do and no way to even know if they're in the wrong positions. Those crashes in the 80s, however, still get me so it's just something I like to do when I travel. Granted, if I can't see the wings I don't worry about it. Heck, I don't think there's been a flap accident on US airlines since the 80s.
 
Its really hard to sit in the back and watch. Especially when you know something isn't right. Instead of making a scene I just let it happen and if its my time, its my time. Those guys up front know what they are doing, have 1-2 more digits behind their number of hours. The odds are heavily favored that things will turn out ok.
 
The only time I hit the FA call button is if there is a gremlin clinging to the wing trashing the engines.
 
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Typically I fall asleep within a minute after putting my seat belt on. I wake up, sometimes, when the gear hits the runway on landing. But...I have managed to sleep through a Southwest landing at KMDW...

I put headphones on as soon as I clear security and don't take them off until I walk out of the destination airport.

Sleeping is the only way to airline.

If you can't fall asleep as soon as you sit down then this clearly means you sleep too much and don't work hard enough :)
 
Timmer said:
Nope, but I can see if the slats and flaps aren't even down at all.

As I said, there's nothing to do and no way to even know if they're in the wrong positions. Those crashes in the 80s, however, still get me so it's just something I like to do when I travel. Granted, if I can't see the wings I don't worry about it. Heck, I don't think there's been a flap accident on US airlines since the 80s.
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So you are flying on a Fokker F100, pilot lines up, no flaps, pushes the throttles forward and starts the takeoff roll - still no flaps. When do you start screaming? :)
 
mtuomi said:
So you are flying on a Fokker F100, pilot lines up, no flaps, pushes the throttles forward and starts the takeoff roll - still no flaps. When do you start screaming? :)
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...or an A300 ... or a B767...
 
I'm a TERRIBLE airline passenger.
Back in the middle 70's I was dead heading on a 727 flight. Without realizing it, I said "Rotate you son of a *****!" during takeoff, loud enough to get everyone's attention.
 
If I sit over the wing I idly look at the different devices but I don't try to analyze what is happening and I don't worry about it. I'm usually either reading, listening to something on headphones or sleeping.
 
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Let'sgoflying! said:
MD80 split elevator has gotten a lot of us in the past.
Now when flying commercial I read or enjoy the scenery. At some point you just have to trust others.
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Got me a few years ago. The pilots are probably still laughing at me for bringing it up to the FA. :redface:
 
ted6357 said:
If I am a passenger on an airliner [let us say a B737-800] and the spoilers/speedbrakes were extended fully prior to takeoff during taxi, the aircraft lines up on the runway and the engines spool for takeoff with the spoilers/speedbrakes still extended, shall I raise a high alert for the flight attendants to contact and alert the flight deck immediately so the takeoff could be aborted?
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Not really, it won't do any good. If you see something going wrong on an airliner, just tighten your seatbelt and see what happens next, you're basically along for the ride.
 
Just try speedbrakes on takeoff with a glider sometime....most interesting lesson I had in my training. It would have been nice for the instructor to warn the tow pilot first, however, so the pilot got a good lesson as well.
 
Every function test I've come across has a warning for out-of-config takeoff attempt or the offending system resets itself depending on thrust lever position :dunno:

So roll onto the runway with them deployed and apply power and they automatically stow. :dunno:
 
bnt83 said:
Every function test I've come across has a warning for out-of-config takeoff attempt or the offending system resets itself depending on thrust lever position :dunno:

So roll onto the runway with them deployed and apply power and they automatically stow. :dunno:
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Didn't help the people in Madrid some years ago. A seemingly unrelated system deactivated the takeoff config warning...
 
Have there been instances where an airline pax saved the day by alerting the crew while on the roll, or entering the runway?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Have there been instances where an airline pax saved the day by alerting the crew while on the roll, or entering the runway?
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I got one flight cancelled at the gate when I pointed out the corrosion swelling on the door frame and deformed rivets on a 737 once.
 
Even if you were correct, and were able to contact a flight attendant, and the FA was willing to alert the flight crew, I really think it would be too late seeing as though you said the engines are already spooled.
 
mtuomi said:
Didn't help the people in Madrid some years ago. A seemingly unrelated system deactivated the takeoff config warning...
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You talking about the Spanair MD80? They didn't have the spoilers out, just didn't have the slats or flaps out either. The system didn't alert them to it.
 
What the heck is a "high alert"? Sounds very over dramatic.
 
Katamarino said:
What the heck is a "high alert"? Sounds very over dramatic.
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images
 
bnt83 said:
Every function test I've come across has a warning for out-of-config takeoff attempt or the offending system resets itself depending on thrust lever position :dunno:

So roll onto the runway with them deployed and apply power and they automatically stow. :dunno:
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Yeah, those out-of-config alarms have NEVER failed......

DAL 1141 comes to mind.
 
Somehow, I can't think too many airline crews are interested in kibitzing from the paying passengers. If you were a pilot on that line, yeah, but a paying passenger, no.

You might raise suspicion that you were a terrorist attempting to gain access to the cockpit, though.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Yeah, those out-of-config alarms have NEVER failed......

DAL 1141 comes to mind.
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Our 727 taxi procedures changed to test the Take Off configuration warning system before takeoff because of this. The 727 being an analog airplane had an older system.

Newer generation airliners have much more sophisticated TO Config warning systems with several fail safes.
 
Ryanb said:
When the aileron is fully deflected like rolling it into the wind (crosswind takeoff) the spoilers will come up as well
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Caravans do the same thing.

No biggie
 
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