Splitting Multi Engine Time and Logging

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Pilot-To-Be

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A friend of mine bought into a nice twin Comanche recently and is checked out and insured in it. He has offered me 100 hours with him in it splitting costs. Of course the only legal way that I’m aware of is safety pilot, so that 100 hours would be safety pilot time. Ok, fair enough, but will I have a hard time explaining all of this in an airline interview? How would they view this? I don’t want to waste my money and time “splitting” if it won’t truly be beneficial for me down the road. We are both CMEL rated. Advice?
 
There is no reason why you can’t log it as PIC. Log every minute you are sole manipulator as PIC. Airlines can ask for anything they want but this isn’t a scenario that would raise any questions.
 
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I think his question is related to both pilots logging PIC time simultaneously, which would require the safety pilot to act as PIC while the other pilot was the sole manipulator of the controls under the hood. That is the only way I can think of that splitting costs on a flight would reduce the cost of logging PIC time.
 
Pilot-To-Be said:
A friend of mine bought into a nice twin Comanche recently and is checked out and insured in it. He has offered me 100 hours with him in it splitting costs. Of course the only legal way that I’m aware of is safety pilot, so that 100 hours would be safety pilot time. Ok, fair enough, but will I have a hard time explaining all of this in an airline interview? How would they view this? I don’t want to waste my money and time “splitting” if it won’t truly be beneficial for me down the road. We are both CMEL rated. Advice?
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Why is the only LEGAL way, safety pilot? You're rated. If it's because you both want to log PIC simultaneously, unless you are both applying to the airlines on the same day, no one will know. However, you both won't be able to log XC time. So you'll have a whole lot of PIC time, no takeoffs, no landings, and no XC. That might raise a flag. So at least do a TO/Landing on each flight so you don't wind up with 100 PIC and ZERO to/landing.
 
I think it has all been covered. If he is under the hood and you are the safety pilot, you are "acting PIC" for that time and both pilots can log it.
If he is not under the hood, and you are the "sole manipulator of the controls", then you can log PIC for that time and he cannot log it.
Suspecting that because you are not listed on his insurance, and you do not meet the "open pilot" portion of his policy, the insurance probably requires him to be in the left seat.
If you are comfortable flying under the hood from the right seat for some approaches, then you both can log it.
 
BillTIZ said:
I think it has all been covered. If he is under the hood and you are the safety pilot, you are "acting PIC" for that time and both pilots can log it.
If he is not under the hood, and you are the "sole manipulator of the controls", then you can log PIC for that time and he cannot log it.
Suspecting that because you are not listed on his insurance, and you do not meet the "open pilot" portion of his policy, the insurance probably requires him to be in the left seat.
If you are comfortable flying under the hood from the right seat for some approaches, then you both can log it.
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not exactly. just because he is under the hood, does not make you acting PIC. it must be agreed before hand who is acting PIC. the insurance policy can affect this decision. if you agreed that you would be PIC, and he is under the hood, and their is an accident, it could get messy with the insurance company if you do not meet the open pilot policy. also, most insurance companies do not care what seat the PIC is in, just who is PIC. when I had my TC i flew it from the right seat as PIC all the time.
 
unsafervguy said:
not exactly. just because he is under the hood, does not make you acting PIC. it must be agreed before hand who is acting PIC. the insurance policy can affect this decision. if you agreed that you would be PIC, and he is under the hood, and their is an accident, it could get messy with the insurance company if you do not meet the open pilot policy. also, most insurance companies do not care what seat the PIC is in, just who is PIC. when I had my TC i flew it from the right seat as PIC all the time.
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Also see the thread about “I don’t want to make my instructor pay for the damage, but how can I get him to pay for the damage?”
 
Greg Bockelman said:
There is no reason why you can’t log it as PIC. Log every minute you are sole manipulator as PIC. Airlines can ask for anything they want but this isn’t a scenario that would raise any questions.
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^This. Recently airlines are looking for the required minimum hours and a pulse. They're not going to ask much since they're desperate for candidates.

Should that change in the future, the airlines might want to know more about that time in your logbook and that safety pilot time might not be viewed as favorably as 100 hours as an MEI, making you less competitive to other candidates.

It sounds like your friend is trying to defray his time building costs. It might be worth looking into whether his agreement with the other owners/insurance will allow what he proposes. It would be one thing if you could swap legs each flight, but in order for you both to log PIC, you have to act as PIC when he is under the hood. His insurance and or club might not allow you to act as PIC, meaning the best you could go is log the safety pilot time as SIC. Regardless, 100 hours of flight time where you never even touch the controls doesn't sound like much fun.
 
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Pilot-To-Be said:
A friend of mine bought into a nice twin Comanche recently and is checked out and insured in it. He has offered me 100 hours with him in it splitting costs. Of course the only legal way that I’m aware of is safety pilot, so that 100 hours would be safety pilot time. Ok, fair enough, but will I have a hard time explaining all of this in an airline interview? How would they view this? I don’t want to waste my money and time “splitting” if it won’t truly be beneficial for me down the road. We are both CMEL rated. Advice?
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All61.51requiresyoutodoisrecordthenameofthesafetypilotIfyoucan’twritesmallandalotofinformationintheremarksfield tocamouflageJackJonesshameonyou.
 
I wouldn’t do more than 20-30 hours of that nonsense. Get an employer to take it from there.
 
1) I would want to be a named insured. I would pay if it costs more.

2) If I am paying half the full cost, I want half the sole manipulator/take offs and landings/XC time.
 
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Do you need 100 hours? IIRC, you only need 25 and the airlines will give you the rest in the sim towards your ATP.
 
I have 24.4. who's gonna help me get the .6 that I need to meet, or .7 that I need to exceed? thanks @schmookeeg !
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Supply vs. demand.
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This. Basic economics get a vote in how much an applicant's time is scrutinized.

While the demand for pilots is still there, quantity is more important than the quality of one's time.

10 years ago there were most definitely stories of pilots being turned away from both corporate and 121 jobs due to not having the 'right kind' of time (ie having too much safety pilot time). But employers could be more restrictive then.

Those days are currently in the past....but doesn't mean they can't return. You may still find those attitudes in some corporate hiring circles, but I've observed far greater variance in attitudes and personalities in the corporate world than 121.
 
I’m old. Back in my day, a turbo prop commuter would circular file your resume unless you had 1000+ serious PIC twin… serious meaning flying checks or the like.

Times have changed.
 
Kritchlow said:
I’m old. Back in my day, a turbo prop commuter would circular file your resume unless you had 1000+ serious PIC twin… serious meaning flying checks or the like.

Times have changed.
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Yes they have.

Does anyone still fly checks? I haven't heard of any such jobs in over a decade.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Yes they have.

Does anyone still fly checks? I haven't heard of any such jobs in over a decade.
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Seriously doubt it. I don’t think checks clear like they used to. And with debit cards, I bet people writing actual checks is just a fraction of what it used to be.
 
I think more clarity is needed on what he is offering. You're assuming he wants you as a SP, but he didn't specify that. Why would he want 100 hours under the hood in an expensive multi? 100 hours is a chunk of time for you to tie up.

Pilot-To-Be said:
He has offered me 100 hours with him in it splitting costs. Of course the only legal way that I’m aware of is safety pilot,
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If he did want you to be a SP for 100 hours, you might if he's a good friend help him by volunteering your time. But on top of that paying for half of his costs while he gets all the left seat time? I'm not seeing that it would be worth it for you. I fly with SPs regularly, and I would not ask a SP to pay for half of my costs while I'm in the left seat. I'm grateful they are helping.
 
WDD said:
I think more clarity is needed on what he is offering. You're assuming he wants you as a SP, but he didn't specify that. Why would he want 100 hours under the hood in an expensive multi? 100 hours is a chunk of time for you to tie up.



If he did want you to be a SP for 100 hours, you might if he's a good friend help him by volunteering your time. But on top of that paying for half of his costs while he gets all the left seat time? I'm not seeing that it would be worth it for you. I fly with SPs regularly, and I would not ask a SP to pay for half of my costs while I'm in the left seat. I'm grateful they are helping.
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Maybe he’s not as good a friend as the OP thinks. ;)
 
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