Splitting flight time.

[Fly4Fun!]

John and Jane are two private pilots who are flying an aircraft limited to DAY VFR.

They are splitting flight cost 50/50, and want to split PIC time 50/50.

Total time was 1.0. John flew the first and last quarter of the flight (0.5 hrs. sole manipulator) Jane flew the middle half (0.5 hrs. sole manipulator)

For logging purposes, can PIC time be split on the same flight?

If John both departed and landed as the sole manipulator, how would Jane make a logbook submission.

Looking for help interpreting 14 CFR 61.51.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Of course. Each was sole manipulator if the controls of an aircraft the pilot was rated for for 0.5 hours. Each fits comfortably into the logging PIC box of 61.51. Why do you think not?

jane would not be able to log the takeoff and landing. And, incidentally, neither would be able to log it as cross country under a series of Chief Counsel interpretations, especially Hilliard.

 

[Rgbeard]

Oh how I love these pedantic discussions.


Please expand!!

 

[benyflyguy]

This simple example is pretty cut and dry… but toss some XC time logging in and it gets a touch more tricky.

 

[midlifeflyer]

This simple example is pretty cut and dry… but toss some XC time logging in and it gets a touch more tricky.

It was until that series of cross country logging interpretations about a dozen years ago. Now it's pretty cut and dry too.

 

[Pinecone]

They contradict themselves.

They say that flying the entire flight as a required crewmember can log XC time. The Safety Pilot is a required crewmember. And the pilot flying flew the entire leg.

So both should be able to log XC. Just like a CFI should be able to log XC when conducting dual XC training with a student.

 

[Wheels]

They contradict themselves.

They say that flying the entire flight as a required crewmember can log XC time. The Safety Pilot is a required crewmember. And the pilot flying flew the entire leg.

So both should be able to log XC. Just like a CFI should be able to log XC when conducting dual XC training with a student.

The safety pilot is not required for the take-off and landing unless they are both done under the hood. I don’t know anyone who flies it all the way to the runway while still under the hood.

 

[WDD]

WHAT IF John switches how he self identifies half way through the flight? John becomes a Jane. Does he have to make two log book entries, one for when he felt like John, and another when he felt like Jane?

 

[Half Fast]

WHAT IF John switches how he self identifies half way through the flight? John becomes a Jane. Does he have to make two log book entries, one for when he felt like John, and another when he felt like Jane?

No.

He/she has to maintain two separate logbooks, one in each name. And only when he/she feels like Jane may he/she belong to the 99s.

 

[RussR]

They contradict themselves.

They say that flying the entire flight as a required crewmember can log XC time. The Safety Pilot is a required crewmember. And the pilot flying flew the entire leg.

I've taken off under the hood, and had students do the same, but never landed under the hood. Sounds interesting, I'd like to see the video!

 

[Zeldman]

I've taken off under the hood, and had students do the same, but never landed under the hood.

Part of the 6 month currency checkride for one company I worked for in Alaska included landing under the hood to simulate an ice covered windshield.

Standard practice was to follow the ILS glide slope and localizer as far as we could, (which was way past minimums) then the IP would talk us onto the surface. A real confidence builder.!!

And yes, practicing landing with an ice covered windshield paid off for me a number of times. A trick we used was to get a pair of gloves and interlock the fingers, then put them over the defrost vent to direct the full air flow to a small spot on the windshield to melt a palm size hole in the ice to see through.

 

[Bonchie]

This thread will probably go 20 pages, but the bottom-line is this: The FAA does not care about micromanaging that kind of stuff.

Do what you think is right and proper, following the regs to the best of your knowledge. You’ve got much bigger things to worry about as far as compliance goes on your journey.

 

[frfly172]

Flight time is actual time controlling the aircraft,you don’t have to make a takeoff or landing to log flight time. So both can log the time they controlled the airplane.

 

[WDD]

So the POA is likely to micro manage more and be more pedantic than the FAA. You might be right. That’s sobering …..

 

[WDD]

Flight time is actual time controlling the aircraft,you don’t have to make a takeoff or landing to log flight time. So both can log the time they controlled the airplane.

John works throttle and rudders. Jane controls the yoke. Now what?

 

[DoubleD]

So the POA is likely to micro manage more and be more pedantic than the FAA.

Be careful. DPEs can be pedantic when OP goes for the instrument rating.

 

[luvflyin]

Of course. Each was sole manipulator if the controls of an aircraft the pilot was rated for for 0.5 hours. Each fits comfortably into the logging PIC box of 61.51. Why do you think not?

jane would not be able to log the takeoff and landing. And, incidentally, neither would be able to log it as cross country under a series of Chief Counsel interpretations, especially Hilliard.

That's about Cross Country to meet experience requirements for certification. They were both already Private Pilots. Maybe one or the other was working on another Certificate or Rating. Were you @Fly4Fun! ? But lets play. The airplane did a Cross Country. I'd say John could call it a Cross Country, but Jane couldn't. What if one of them took off, but the other landed? I'm not talking about how many hours here. Just if they could call it a Cross Country for themselves.

 

[luvflyin]

WHAT IF John switches how he self identifies half way through the flight? John becomes a Jane. Does he have to make two log book entries, one for when he felt like John, and another when he felt like Jane?

Well. So much for it going 20 pages like @Bonchie predicted. My money is on maybe 2.

 

[Pinecone]

So, you take off, the safety pilot does a touch and go, then the flying pilot goes under the hood. At destination, PF does touch and go from approach, safety pilot then does a full stop.

Both have been a required crewmember from A to B and both did a take off at A and a landing at B. :

 

[midlifeflyer]

That's about Cross Country to meet experience requirements for certification. They were both already Private Pilots. Maybe one or the other was working on another Certificate or Rating. Were you @Fly4Fun! ? But lets play. The airplane did a Cross Country. I'd say John could call it a Cross Country, but Jane couldn't. What if one of them took off, but the other landed? I'm not talking about how many hours here. Just if they could call it a Cross Country for themselves.

You can call anything you want as a cross country for yourself. The only relevant logging (as opposed to scrapbook) question is, does it count for an FAA purpose. A lot of people, including me, though it was countable if you were a required crewmember on a flight that was a cross country. That's what the reg says. But the FAA said no.

 

[midlifeflyer]

So, you take off, the safety pilot does a touch and go, then the flying pilot goes under the hood. At destination, PF does touch and go from approach, safety pilot then does a full stop.

Both have been a required crewmember from A to B and both did a take off at A and a landing at B. :

What do the words of Hilliard say? It's fun to do pin dances, isn't it?

 

[TommyG]

What if two pilots are flying along, pilot A took off and bend flew to 3000 ft, pilot B pushed the button to activate the autopilot. They cruise along straight line for 2 hours, and both of them watch for traffic.

Who logs the time?

 

[luvflyin]

Wasn't there a plane that took off once without the pilot? Had hand propped it, or got out to do something and there it went. Got airborne, and stayed there until it ran out of gas and then landed somewhere. Probably wasn't a pretty landing and probably not at an airport. But it did land and not at the point of departure. Can the pilot who started the engine log cross country?

 

[MauleSkinner]

What if two pilots are flying along, pilot A took off and bend flew to 3000 ft, pilot B pushed the button to activate the autopilot. They cruise along straight line for 2 hours, and both of them watch for traffic.

Who logs the time?

There was a transfer of control when Pilot B pushed the button to activate the autopilot. Pilot A logs the time prior, Pilot B logs the time after.

Wasn't there a plane that took off once without the pilot? Had hand propped it, or got out to do something and there it went. Got airborne, and stayed there until it ran out of gas and then landed somewhere. Probably wasn't a pretty landing and probably not at an airport. But it did land and not at the point of departure. Can the pilot who started the engine log cross country?

Once?

 

[Jeff767]

This thread went off track immediately. The question asked was could they split the PIC time 50/50. I don’t know the answer to that question but I do have a easy solution to insure no issues. Alternative who will be the PIC each flight. Don’t try and split it. Works out the same.

 

[MauleSkinner]

This thread went off track immediately. The question asked was could they split the PIC time 50/50. I don’t know the answer to that question but I do have a easy solution to insure no issues. Alternative who will be the PIC each flight. Don’t try and split it. Works out the same.

Being as the question was answered even more immediately than it went off track, I’d suggest retreading it if you’re actually interested in knowing the answer to that question.

 

[Pinecone]

This thread went off track immediately. The question asked was could they split the PIC time 50/50. I don’t know the answer to that question but I do have a easy solution to insure no issues. Alternative who will be the PIC each flight. Don’t try and split it. Works out the same.

You can split the flying time, you cannot split the XC time. This based on the previously posted interpretations from the FAA.