Spin Recovery Training... and my first (not-so) aerobatic lesson

Cooter said:
Yeah, fighter guys don't like dirt on them. Better to broadcast your intentions on a Gun's D, than to let some junk fly up on you in the cockpit.
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Actually, most fighters have a very small negative G tolerance- we are taught from day one to roll and pull, for this reason and a few others. For those relative few of us who had extensive civilian aerobatic experience prior to the military, it was different...we were used to negs, for competition purposes there is no way around them if you want to be competitive. There is no way to keep a cockpit clean, and having dirt and other detritus flying around the cockpit can be a major distraction, as well.
What did you fly in the military?
 
BigBadLou said:
That is my biggest fear too.
I know already that I love aerobatics but I really don't want to get into it for this very reason.
I think the wife would kill me if I bought a 2S or similar.
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It cost my friend a live-in boyfriend, lol...I never cared for him anyway, but she apparently did. Not enough to give up her plane though...and it was HER house. :)
 
TCABM said:
Between this and your hot rod business, you've had a pretty unique life. You ever cross paths with this guy?
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Unique? I never considered it particularly unique, I've been building cars since I was a teenager, and I grew up a military brat- we summered in Europe, flying space-A to visit friends my parents made while stationed over there (Germany) right after WWII. My father was a WWII/Korea/VN veteran. I learned to love exotics while in Europe, where old ones are for sale dirt cheap and scoffed at.
My entire family serves in the military, it's just what we do. Most of us fly. I wanted F-15C's and I got them, which was a very difficult endeavor, but other than that my life has been pretty ordinary.
And no, never met John Wayne...he sounds larger-than-life.
 
Cooter said:
Yeah, fighter guys don't like dirt on them. Better to broadcast your intentions on a Gun's D, than to let some junk fly up on you in the cockpit.
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Broadcast your intentions? Really? You think F-15s are flying like P-51's in WWII, perhaps? Let me enlighten you- I have never been close enough to an adversary to flip him the bird, like Tom Cruise did in Top Gun- in practice or in combat. I couldn't tell you which way an an opponent rolled or whether he pushed or pulled in a knife fight to save my life- do you know the roll rates of modern fighters? Whether you push or roll and pull is a matter of a quarter of a second difference, and since you can tolerate a rapid buildup of positive G's much better than you can negative, you will more than make that up as you maneuver.
I'm curious what you flew in the military, as you seem so knowledgeable. What was your MOS or AFSC?
 
Cooter said:
Then you were obviously never a fighter pilot.
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Cooter, with all due respect, after reading your various posts and the way you like to attack newcomers and the way you seem to treat people in general, my guess is that your life hasn't gone the way you would have liked it to. I think you are a basically unhappy person, who probably reads alot- and therefore has a lot of theoretical knowledge, and second hand knowledge. I'll bet you live vicariously through others, the people who actually DID the things you wish you had done.
Then, to assuage your ego, which is damaged because you realized too late that you were going nowhere, you use your second hand knowledge, acquired through reading, to try to tear others down who have accomplished things in their lives. I am sorry for you- perhaps you were unable to pursue your dreams for some reason, medical or financial or due to obligations to family, and not just because you were lazy or unmotivated.
Whichever the case is, I am too old to engage in lying to make myself sound more interesting. What my life is, it is. I have worked hard, I have gotten lucky at times, and I have suffered from bad luck at times, just like anyone else. Your "talents" are wasted on me. Go find another victim, please, what you see is what you get, in my case.

I'm sure you won't listen. but I thought it only fair that I make my case.

Best wishes to you.
 
Eagledriver65th said:
Right...and, for the third time, what did you fly in the military?
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I don't blab my personal business all over the Internet like some people, so you'll have to put the pieces together. Other than what's still required for work I don't much think of myself as a fighter pilot anymore. I also don't argue from credentials, so what I flew isn't really relevant here.

So you're telling me that you were a fighter pilot but you weren't capable of knowing when the other aircraft was unloading or which way they were turning and pulling?
 
Eagledriver65th said:
Cooter, with all due respect, after reading your various posts and the way you like to attack newcomers and the way you seem to treat people in general, my guess is that your life hasn't gone the way you would have liked it to. I think you are a basically unhappy person, who probably reads alot- and therefore has a lot of theoretical knowledge, and second hand knowledge. I'll bet you live vicariously through others, the people who actually DID the things you wish you had done.
Then, to assuage your ego, which is damaged because you realized too late that you were going nowhere, you use your second hand knowledge, acquired through reading, to try to tear others down who have accomplished things in their lives. I am sorry for you- perhaps you were unable to pursue your dreams for some reason, medical or financial or due to obligations to family, and not just because you were lazy or unmotivated.
Whichever the case is, I am too old to engage in lying to make myself sound more interesting. What my life is, it is. I have worked hard, I have gotten lucky at times, and I have suffered from bad luck at times, just like anyone else. Your "talents" are wasted on me. Go find another victim, please, what you see is what you get, in my case.

I'm sure you won't listen. but I thought it only fair that I make my case.

Best wishes to you.
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Perhaps if I Googled some images of a fighter pilot and posted them as my own you'd be convinced that I'm for real?
You are a sick person. You need some help man. Go share your lies with other pretenders. Don't try to sell it in the real world.

Why don't you do me a favor and copy and paste where I've been unkind to a newcomer? Good luck with that John Wayne, there are plenty of other forums.
 
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Cooter said:
I don't blab my personal business all over the Internet like some people, so you'll have to put the pieces together. Other than what's still required for work I don't much think of myself as a fighter pilot anymore. I also don't argue from credentials, so what I flew isn't really relevant here.

So you're telling me that you were a fighter pilot but you weren't capable of knowing when the other aircraft was unloading or which way they were turning and pulling?
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Right, I believe you.
I'm telling you that it has been 40 years since two planes had a "dogfight" like you are envisioning. Today 99% of engagements are BVR, and the few who close aren't 50 feet away, like P-51's and FW-190's were. When we do close, corner speed in an F-15 is about 400 knots- things are happening very quickly, I know where my opponent is going, certainly, but I can't see him to know how he is accomplishing this, although I have a best guess.
 
Cooter said:
Perhaps if I Googled some images of a fighter pilot and posted them as my own you'd be convinced that I'm for real?
You are a sick person. You need some help man. Go share your lies with other pretenders. Don't try to sell it in the real world.
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Did I hit a little too close to home, brother? I'm sorry to do it on a public forum, but you seemed intent on attacking me.
 
Cooter said:
Perhaps if I Googled some images of a fighter pilot and posted them as my own you'd be convinced that I'm for real?
You are a sick person. You need some help man. Go share your lies with other pretenders. Don't try to sell it in the real world.

Why don't you do me a favor and copy and paste where I've been unkind to a newcomer? Good luck with that John Wayne, there are plenty of other forums.
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My wife and I are going to dinner for our anniversary, so I will leave you in peace to say nasty things about me. Get it out of your system, I'd say you need to vent, badly. I'm fine with it.

Cheers!
 
Eagledriver65th said:
My wife and I are going to dinner for our anniversary, so I will leave you in peace to say nasty things about me. Get it out of your system, I'd say you need to vent, badly. I'm fine with it.

Cheers!
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Before you go, why don't you help me to understand how you've avoided a one-circle (or nose to nose if you prefer) fight in all your years of flying? What did you're training rules say about minimum separation?
 
Eagledriver65th said:
Unique? I never considered it particularly unique, I've been building cars since I was a teenager, and I grew up a military brat- we summered in Europe, flying space-A to visit friends my parents made while stationed over there (Germany) right after WWII. My father was a WWII/Korea/VN veteran. I learned to love exotics while in Europe, where old ones are for sale dirt cheap and scoffed at.
My entire family serves in the military, it's just what we do. Most of us fly. I wanted F-15C's and I got them, which was a very difficult endeavor, but other than that my life has been pretty ordinary.
And no, never met John Wayne...he sounds larger-than-life.
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Really? JWJ also flew aerobatics as a teenager in the family's Champ and solo'd at 12, no...take that back, 9 yrs old. He too spent 36 moths as a T-38 IP. He too flew F-15s with the 65th right after FAIP. Spent only 10 years in the AF starting in 1979ish but somehow got 65th before they actually had F-15s. He too owned several aerobatic aircraft including a T-6. He too was a bush pilot in Alaska. He also owned a hotrod shop...although he didn't post pics of cars that weren't actually his. He too had a dad that served in WWII,Korea and VN.

Besides not punching out of an F-5F in some secret squadron that he never revealed, you two have lived almost identical lives. Amazing coincidence!

Edit: I was just thinking. How in the heck does a 9 yr old reach the pedals in a champ anyway? I'm a grown adult and barely can reach the pedals on the aircraft I fly. :confused:
 
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Eagledriver65th said:
Right, I believe you.
I'm telling you that it has been 40 years since two planes had a "dogfight" like you are envisioning. Today 99% of engagements are BVR, and the few who close aren't 50 feet away, like P-51's and FW-190's were. When we do close, corner speed in an F-15 is about 400 knots- things are happening very quickly, I know where my opponent is going, certainly, but I can't see him to know how he is accomplishing this, although I have a best guess.
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Your internet buddies could have helped you out with this. But here, I'll help you this one time.
 
Velocity173 said:
JWJ also flew aerobatics as a teenager in the family's Champ and solo'd at 12, no...take that back, 9 yrs old. He too spent 36 moths as a T-38 IP. He too flew F-15s with the 65th right after FAIP. Spent only 10 years in the AF starting in 1979ish but somehow got 65th before they actually had F-15s. He too owned several aerobatic aircraft including a T-6. He too was a bush pilot in Alaska. He also owned a hotrod shop...although he didn't post pics of cars that weren't actually his. He too had a dad that served in WWII,Korea and VN.

Besides not punching out of an F-5F in some secret squadron that he never revealed, you two have lived almost identical lives. Amazing coincidence!
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I'm eagerly waiting for a photo of a mangled leg...
 
The sad part is that this crap landed in @Cajun_Flyer 's thread about a great experience. I'm sorry for that.

Unfortunately it was that or in Nates truck noise thread. With all that's going on in his world right now That didn't seem right.
 
LO
Cooter said:
Before you go, why don't you help me to understand how you've avoided a one-circle (or nose to nose if you prefer) fight in all your years of flying? What did you're training rules say about minimum separation?[/QUOTE
You're talking about a radius fight? What idiot would turn in-plane with an F-15? You won't ever see even two F-15's in a radius fight, and certainly never in DACT. Either the opponent can outturn the eagle, in which case I take it vertical, a fight I am going to win, or the bandit is stuck in a losing fight with a wider radius- and nothing can extend away from an F-15, so he's a grape.
You have obviously never flown in or against an F-15, so whatever this experience is that you claim, it is irrelevant.
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Velocity173 said:
Really? JWJ also flew aerobatics as a teenager in the family's Champ and solo'd at 12, no...take that back, 9 yrs old. He too spent 36 moths as a T-38 IP. He too flew F-15s with the 65th right after FAIP. Spent only 10 years in the AF starting in 1979ish but somehow got 65th before they actually had F-15s. He too owned several aerobatic aircraft including a T-6. He too was a bush pilot in Alaska. He also owned a hotrod shop...although he didn't post pics of cars that weren't actually his. He too had a dad that served in WWII,Korea and VN.

Besides not punching out of an F-5F in some secret squadron that he never revealed, you two have lived almost identical lives. Amazing coincidence!

Edit: I was just thinking. How in the heck does a 9 yr old reach the pedals in a champ anyway? I'm a grown adult and barely can reach the pedals on the aircraft I fly. :confused:
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I'm not sure who who this JWJ person is or why our lives have similarities, but that was neither my doing nor is it my problem. My life is what it is, I'm sorry you doubt my life experience but I have no control over that. As for flying a Champ at 9 years old, I'm sure I could have, they are a pretty tight aircraft inside, but I made no such claims and have no idea where you even got that little tidbit.Champs were one of the most popular aircraft, as they were cheap to buy and operate, not carrying the "Cub" sticker, which adds 50% to the price of parts and labor.
I recently retired and thought it would be fun to interact with other pilots online, but apparently this is something other than a social site for hangar flying. I have no idea what I have done besides be pleasant and try to be helpful, but you idiots are definitely keeping aviation inaccessible, as is so often the case- any new or perspective pilot reading this sort of treatment would back away and find another hobby.
I think you are seeing similarities that aren't there just because there are a couple of actual coincidences. But I imagine you will continue with your attitudes, as it is probably the only point in your day when you feel superior.
 
lol...wow, you will disclose nothing so that you could possibly be judged, yet you judge anything anyone else has to say. What a neat trick. It does make you appear infallible, doesn't it?
 
I've disclosed my disgust for posers who get some form of weird gratification from stealing other's accomplishments and displaying them as their own.
 
Eagledriver65th said:
I'm not sure who who this JWJ person is or why our lives have similarities, but that was neither my doing nor is it my problem. My life is what it is, I'm sorry you doubt my life experience but I have no control over that. As for flying a Champ at 9 years old, I'm sure I could have, they are a pretty tight aircraft inside, but I made no such claims and have no idea where you even got that little tidbit.Champs were one of the most popular aircraft, as they were cheap to buy and operate, not carrying the "Cub" sticker, which adds 50% to the price of parts and labor.
I recently retired and thought it would be fun to interact with other pilots online, but apparently this is something other than a social site for hangar flying. I have no idea what I have done besides be pleasant and try to be helpful, but you idiots are definitely keeping aviation inaccessible, as is so often the case- any new or perspective pilot reading this sort of treatment would back away and find another hobby.
I think you are seeing similarities that aren't there just because there are a couple of actual coincidences. But I imagine you will continue with your attitudes, as it is probably the only point in your day when you feel superior.
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Whoa there Duke! No one is doubting your life's experiences. I just find it remarkable that you two have lived an almost exact life. Obviously it's not you because you never flew F-5s and haven't been banned from Quora.

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/howdy-yall.103183/
 
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@Eagledriver65th, if your screen name reflects an assignment you had in the Air Force, PM me your callsign. That's a pretty small and tight community that I'm lucky enough to know a few guys who've been there/done that. If they'll vouch for you, then I'll make it public and I'm sure Velocity will be a stand up guy and apologize for getting you confused with someone else.

This message brought to you by the World's Largest Distributor of MiG Parts.
 
I think Velocity already guessed his call sign. Anyone named John Wayne would necessarily be called "Duke".;)

If there are two pilots with the same exact burn injury, from the same squadron, from Texas, and each happen to own a Hot-rod shop, and they both claim to be fighter pilots but neither seem to have any real knowledge of it, or of each other, well, I guess we need to call Ripley's Believe It or Not. :dunno:
 
Since all of you poor bastids never got to fly a Hornet, I deem this internet beyotch fight unworthy.

@Cajun_Flyer your children will love you more if you go back and do some aero. So there.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
Typical POA ****show and much of the reason I don't make a point to come here too often anymore.
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I understand. Still sucks though. I enjoy reading about your exploits in aviation. Following along with your journey and other new pilots on the board remind me why I chose aviation as a career and I enjoy it when people share their experiences. It's a shame people get run off by the bull crap.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
So I finally bit the bullet and signed up for the spin recovery course offered at my school. The guy who teaches it is actually the same guy who did my checkride. He offers the instruction in a Super Decathlon and at the end of the course, students are given the opportunity to perform some light aerobatics - rolls and loops and such.

We spent about two hours on the ground and then, once airborne, started out with stalls, p-factor and g-force demonstrations, and then did ~10 spins of different varieties (1G, Beggs Mueller, Base-to-Final, etc). He let me do a full turn a couple times, because apparently I find it massively fun to spin round and round while staring straight down at the ground. :eek:

The good news - I never got even slightly nauseous and the g-forces didn't bother me... I just kept my stomach tight to keep bloodflow to my head and all was good. Most importantly - I learned A LOT. I really wish I had done this sooner!

The bad news - After over an hour of that, I was pretty tired and not feeling adventurous to try any more new crazy things... so no rolls or loops for me.

Lame, I know. :(

But, here's the thing - I really want to try those things now. That's bad right?! Like the fact that I can't stop thinking about it means I probably have some kind of sickness?

My one big hangup - and I think a big part of why I opted out at the end, is that, save for my terrifying experience during underwater egress training, I realized at some point that I've actually never been inverted before... never ridden on an upside-down roller coaster, never even done a headstand... and the idea of being so was just something I couldn't get my head around.

I'm sure I can get past this inverted aversion and once I do, I'll have as much fun with loops and rolls as I did with spins. But how?! Any tips or tricks?

Other than that, though, I had a blast! :D

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I'm a couple months late reading this but you could have been me twenty years ago. I wanted to do aerobatics but got no further than a fun flight with one of the greats. Hubby and I met with an instructor but she was killed during an air show before we got around to scheduling our lessons. We were going to give that to each other as an anniversary present or something. Then life got in the way and now I'm too old for such things. You should go for it though!
 
RoscoeT said:
Unless the kid in your avatar is your great grandchild, I highly doubt it!
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Awww thank you. No it's my grand kid. Its just between my herniated disks and detached retina and other assorted bothers I don't want to risk it anymore. I've become an old fuddy dud.:D
 
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