Spend my money - which autopilot?

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traumamed

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traumamed
I have a Piper Turbo Arrow III (PA-28R-201T) that needs an autopilot. The current panel is an Aspen Pro Max PFD, G5 backup AI, GTN 750, GTX 345, an old King backup NAV2, an actual working King DME, and a JPI 900.

The current autopilot situation is clunky and now broken. It has an STEC 30 standalone alt hold for vertical, which still works fine. The ailerons are driven by an Autocontrol IIIB (basically a rebranded Century IIB) which is connected to the Aspen for GPSS. It recently became intermittent and unreliable. I have traced the problem to the connector at the back of the head unit. I've been in touch with Autopilots Central in OK, and unfortunately this is a much bigger issue than it would seem because the connector itself is no longer available. The repair could involve building a whole new wiring harness. I don't want to spend that kind of coin on an ancient analog AP.

I've come up with a few options for replacing the AP entirely.

1. GFC500 driven by my G5. Great AP, but in this config, it would basically relegate my Aspen to a monitoring screen. I would actually be flying the G5.

2. GFC500 + swap out the Aspen for a TXi. This would be the dream for achieving a fully integrated panel. Idk if I can swing the cost though.

3. GFC500 + swap out the Aspen for two GI-275s. I'd have an integrated panel, but I feel like trading out an Aspen Pro Max for GI-275s would be a backwards move.

4. STEC 55x. Idk much about this AP except that a bunch of people upgraded from it to a 3100. Unfortunately, there is not an STC for the 3100 in my plane. If I went 55x, I think the pitch servo from my STEC 30 can be reused, so that would probably reduce the price of this option. I do know the 55x can integrate well with both the Aspen and the GTN.

What would the PoA collective do?

PS - I'm sure someone will mention the Aerocruze 100 and the Trio, but those do not work for my situation. I fly IFR a lot. The lack of approval for instrument approaches and the inability to follow ground-based nav aids are dealbreakers.
 
Get the GFC500 with the G5’s or GI275’s. Either will be amazing!
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
And why not consider G3X/GFC500 combo, you already have the G5?
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I'm not opposed to it. I just didn't think the price difference would be significant enough to merit considering the G3X over the newer piece of tech. The bulk of the cost is going to be the installation, which will require panel modification or might even mean cutting a new panel entirely. If I go all in on a project that could approach mid-five figures, a couple thousand more for the G500TXi seems trivial. I'm all ears if I'm missing something. I would much rather keep a unified, large-screen PFD than go back to two little steam-gauge-sized circles just to get the AP well integrated.
 
traumamed said:
I'm not opposed to it. I just didn't think the price difference would be significant enough to merit considering the G3X over the newer piece of tech. The bulk of the cost is going to be the installation, which will require panel modification or might even mean cutting a new panel entirely. If I go all in on a project that could approach mid-five figures, a couple thousand more for the G500TXi seems trivial. I'm all ears if I'm missing something. I would much rather keep a unified, large-screen PFD than go back to two little steam-gauge-sized circles just to get the AP well integrated.
Click to expand...

Back in the good old days before Covid I had G3X/GFC500 installed with a new panel cut for about $30k, not 50s.
I think the TXi also requires Flightstream box for WIFI connection, G3X it’s built in but doesn’t do the wireless database updates.
The TXI has the high speed bus, G3X doesn’t, this is only an issue if you already use this tech.
TXi handles other hardware (like GFC 600, Stec55x, etc), but if going 500 route the G3X natively supports it.
My biggest complaint about the G3X is the slow database updates.
 
traumamed said:
1. GFC500 driven by my G5. Great AP, but in this config, it would basically relegate my Aspen to a monitoring screen. I would actually be flying the G5.

2. GFC500 + swap out the Aspen for a TXi. This would be the dream for achieving a fully integrated panel. Idk if I can swing the cost though.

3. GFC500 + swap out the Aspen for two GI-275s. I'd have an integrated panel, but I feel like trading out an Aspen Pro Max for GI-275s would be a backwards move.

4. STEC 55x. Idk much about this AP except that a bunch of people upgraded from it to a 3100. Unfortunately, there is not an STC for the 3100 in my plane. If I went 55x, I think the pitch servo from my STEC 30 can be reused, so that would probably reduce the price of this option. I do know the 55x can integrate well with both the Aspen and the GTN.
Click to expand...

I know a few people who have done 1., and they are happy with it. I don't think I would enjoy it too much myself, though. It works well technically but isn't great from a human factors perspective.

2. and 3. are both solid options. The TXi is obviously nicer and does more, but I've flown the #3 configuration in multiple airplanes, and I find it perfectly workable.

4.: nah, I wouldn't want to go through the expenditure and aircraft downtime only to have a previous-generation autopilot like the 55X in the plane. The 55X was a great choice ten years ago, just like the KFC200 was a great choice 20 years ago. But today, for serious IFR flying I'd go for the GFC500 or GFC600 whenever possible, and build the rest of the system around that autopilot.

- Martin
 
I think the cheapest option once you are in the STEC world, is to stay STEC as they give good credit for their installed equipment, and will "renew" your waarranty with your used servos. Do I like the Garmin GFC paired with Garmin, better ? absolutely. But its a cost factor and whether you want to go that route.

Most expensive is going to be the G500Txi, GFC500 combo. Expect easily 25K for the GFC installation by itself.

Least is using a combiantion of what you know with the aspen and upgrading the STEC. Im not a fan of aspen, but they support their products and have upgrades (just like stec) that garmin being the big elephant in the room doesnt have.
 
Have you looked into the Trio autopilot?

Aircraft Autopilot at an affordable price

Airplane Autopilot for certified aircraft. Cessna 150, 152, 170B, 172, 175, 177, 180 ,182, 185, 190, 195, LC-126, Piper PA-24, Piper PA-28, PA-32, Grumman AA-5 Compatible with Aspen, Garmin G5 and Dynon SkyView HDX Avionics, Upgrades, Pilot, General Aviation
www.thestcgroupllc.com www.thestcgroupllc.com
 
odie451 said:
Have you looked into the Trio autopilot?

Aircraft Autopilot at an affordable price

Airplane Autopilot for certified aircraft. Cessna 150, 152, 170B, 172, 175, 177, 180 ,182, 185, 190, 195, LC-126, Piper PA-24, Piper PA-28, PA-32, Grumman AA-5 Compatible with Aspen, Garmin G5 and Dynon SkyView HDX Avionics, Upgrades, Pilot, General Aviation
www.thestcgroupllc.com www.thestcgroupllc.com
Click to expand...

Reread the 1st post, last paragraph.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Reread the 1st post, last paragraph.
Click to expand...
I believe that the Aspen will act as the nav track source for the Trio. If an analog nav source is driving the Aspen, then you can use the Aspen’s analog to digital conversion, hence digital output to drive the Trio track function.
 
Option 2 if the budget allows it, if the budget is tighter then option 3 would be my vote. I might have some used parts in the back for the Century 2 if you are interested.
 
Whatever you decide for a PFD you’re going to be blown away once you fly with a complete system GFC500.
 
Anthem said:
I think the cheapest option once you are in the STEC world, is to stay STEC as they give good credit for their installed equipment, and will "renew" your waarranty with your used servos. Do I like the Garmin GFC paired with Garmin, better ? absolutely. But its a cost factor and whether you want to go that route.

Most expensive is going to be the G500Txi, GFC500 combo. Expect easily 25K for the GFC installation by itself.

Least is using a combiantion of what you know with the aspen and upgrading the STEC. Im not a fan of aspen, but they support their products and have upgrades (just like stec) that garmin being the big elephant in the room doesnt have.
Click to expand...
Prior to today, I would have thought you were 100% correct. That had me somewhat favoring option 4 even though I'd much rather have the GFC500 if money were no object. However, this morning, Sarasota Avionics gave me a formal quote of $47,212.50 (yep, they felt the need to get that last 50 cents in there) to do nothing except swap out the existing autopilot system for an STEC 55x. Their quote for dual GI-275s and a GFC 500 was nearly $10K less, unbelievably, and I'd be able to recoup even more by selling the Aspen.

odie451 said:
Have you looked into the Trio autopilot?
Click to expand...
Maybe I really should reconsider a Trio or an Aerocruze. Those quotes from Sarasota Avionics were real eye-openers. Basic modern AP that can fly 3.7 hours of a 4-hour flight for under $15K installed, or fancy AP that can fly 3.95 hours of a 4-hour flight for $35-$50K. I've flown behind an Aerocruze before and was happy with it.

Martin Pauly said:
I know a few people who have done 1., and they are happy with it. I don't think I would enjoy it too much myself, though. It works well technically but isn't great from a human factors perspective.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm with you on that.

Jacob Kinsey said:
I might have some used parts in the back for the Century 2 if you are interested.
Click to expand...
If my current system could be salvaged quickly and for under $1,000, I'd be game, but any more than that and I'd rather just put it toward tech that isn't a half-century old. I touched on the problem in my OP. I am happy to elaborate if you want to send me a PM.
 
if you have g5 you're halfway to the gfc500 might as well go that route. now if you just have ot upgrade, i'd go g3x again, since you have g5 you're a good deal of the way there
 
traumamed said:
Prior to today, I would have thought you were 100% correct. That had me somewhat favoring option 4 even though I'd much rather have the GFC500 if money were no object. However, this morning, Sarasota Avionics gave me a formal quote of $47,212.50 (yep, they felt the need to get that last 50 cents in there) to do nothing except swap out the existing autopilot system for an STEC 55x. Their quote for dual GI-275s and a GFC 500 was nearly $10K less, unbelievably, and I'd be able to recoup even more by selling the Aspen.


Maybe I really should reconsider a Trio or an Aerocruze. Those quotes from Sarasota Avionics were real eye-openers. Basic modern AP that can fly 3.7 hours of a 4-hour flight for under $15K installed, or fancy AP that can fly 3.95 hours of a 4-hour flight for $35-$50K. I've flown behind an Aerocruze before and was happy with it.


Yeah, I'm with you on that.


If my current system could be salvaged quickly and for under $1,000, I'd be game, but any more than that and I'd rather just put it toward tech that isn't a half-century old. I touched on the problem in my OP. I am happy to elaborate if you want to send me a PM.
Click to expand...

You should ask them to price the G3X/GFC500 combo, since you have a G5 already.
 
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