Sovereign Citizen nearly causes midair

"I object to these proceedings,” Marsan said, wearing a yellow jail jumpsuit and leg chains." :happydance:

A fellow like him once said, "you can't get blood out of a turnip" but he soon learned that while they might not get blood out of it they could strip the hide off of it ...
 
The fact that he did take off against traffic and without using radio most likely has nothing to do with his lack of medical or frankly anything related to his alleged “free citizen” status - I know some very ordinary folks with medicals and without any claims to being “sovereign” that were very much guilty of similar actions.
 
Warmi said:
The fact that he did take off against traffic and without using radio most likely has nothing to do with his lack of medical or frankly anything related to his alleged “free citizen” status - I know some very ordinary folks with medicals and without any claims to being “sovereign” that were very much guilty of similar actions.
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But when the kinder, gentler FAA contacts you with regard to an investigation, and you tell them they have no authority over you, you end up in leg irons. Especially if you’re operating a commercial aviation business.
 
I note that it's in Alaska, always heard that operating without a certificate was fairly common up there. I've never met anyone who openly operated outside the rules but it's not like I'm gonna check. Given that unless there's an incident/accident nobody is likely to check I imagine it's more common than we'd think.
 
He is going to prison. The only question is the length of his stay.
 
X3 Skier said:
I note that the Magistrate ordered him “not to operate an aircraft”. I’m sure that will be effective:rolleyes:
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Well, his whole point was that they can go f*** themselves so I guess it wont be very effective.. and frankly, being that this is happening in Alaska, he probably earned that right …. :)
 
I have a nickel that says there's tax evasion charges coming in a separate action.
cowman said:
I've never met anyone who openly operated outside the rules but it's not like I'm gonna check. Given that unless there's an incident/accident nobody is likely to check I imagine it's more common than we'd think.
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Not Alaska, but several years ago I was doing some Champ shopping. I talked to more than one guy who had a Champ that hadn't had an annual in recent years, may or may not have had valid registration, and the pilot hadn't had a valid medical in years (and this was before Basic Med) -- they just fly off the farm strip, nobody knows or cares. I guess it shouldn't have surprised me, but it did.
 
The guy at one time had a medical and had registration. His flight review and medical lapsed, then he wrote a letter to the FAA to de-register the plane. Looking him up on the airmen registry, he was a cfii as well as being an ap/ia.

To me this reads like mental illness.

Screenshot_20240725-064550.png
 
DaleB said:
Not Alaska, but several years ago I was doing some Champ shopping. I talked to more than one guy who had a Champ that hadn't had an annual in recent years, may or may not have had valid registration, and the pilot hadn't had a valid medical in years (and this was before Basic Med) -- they just fly off the farm strip, nobody knows or cares. I guess it shouldn't have surprised me, but it did.
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I saw the headline and wondered if he took off from his own land... nope. He departed from (and returned to) a municipal airport. That seems to contradict the spirit of a 'benign anarchy' that I perceive as motivating the 'sovereign citizen' ethos. Kind of like those "autonomous" protesters in Seattle and elsewhere, who were autonomous only after seizing property and buildings owned by others, and who demanded they be provided with provisions (among other political demands) to maintain their LARP fantasy.

The other thing -- according to reports, the pilot took off against the prevailing flow of traffic. Even if that was NOT a downwind departure, it shows a poor sort of ADM, regardless of his citizenship status.
 
cowman said:
I note that it's in Alaska, always heard that operating without a certificate was fairly common up there. I've never met anyone who openly operated outside the rules but it's not like I'm gonna check. Given that unless there's an incident/accident nobody is likely to check I imagine it's more common than we'd think.
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It is not that it is fairly common, but the folks that don't abide by the rules are usually pretty proud of that fact and can't keep their pie hole closed. They just can't shut up and finally someone gets tired of it and turns them in.

I knew of a couple folks in the lower 48 operating without a medical certificate, but they were closed mouth about it and got away with it for years. I was surprised to learn they did not have medicals. Which is a shame because now they could operate under basic med.

Many years ago there was an incident in Alaska where I was living where one of these ''sovereign citizens'' flew into the AM radio antenna one night, taking himself and his 12 year old son out of the gene pool. Of course he did not have a certificate, or a medical and the plane was decades out of annual. The plane had a ADF which would have pointed towards the antenna if it had been turned on.

This guy was also involved in a law suit (against who I don't know) about the house he built. He built it himself, meaning he did the work, but did not follow any building code. Yes, even BFE Alaska has to follow the rules. He was trying to sell it but no financial company would loan on it, so he was suing someone. It was a nice house, except for the questionable electric, plumbing and framing. As far as I know it is still sitting there rotting away.

I met several characters in Alaska. Some were interesting while others I could not stop myself from laughing out loud... :lol:
 
Marsan was jailed at the Anchorage Correctional Complex ahead of his arraignment, but Oravec ordered his release Tuesday under the conditions that he surrender his passport and not operate an aircraft.
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I wonder who issued the passport.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I wonder who issued the passport.
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The Dept of State, I would confidently suspect. A passport, while not exactly required, sure makes travel across borders much easier. Being in AK, I’d guess he ventured into and out of Canada fairly often.

I’m just wondering what govt welfare program he was on. As I have yet to know of any “sovereign citizen” types that wasn’t receiving SSI, 100% disability, 100% medical retirement, massive PPP loans that were forgiven, or some form of govt assistance.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I wonder who issued the passport.
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aterry1067 said:
The Dept of State, I would confidently suspect. A passport, while not exactly required, sure makes travel across borders much easier. Being in AK, I’d guess he ventured into and out of Canada fairly often.
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The other possibility, I guess, is he doesn't have one. The standard order actually says to surrender "any" passport.
 
Warmi said:
The fact that he did take off against traffic and without using radio most likely has nothing to do with his lack of medical or frankly anything related to his alleged “free citizen” status - I know some very ordinary folks with medicals and without any claims to being “sovereign” that were very much guilty of similar actions.
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Well. Combine his behavior with the rest of his ignoring and disregarding the law and regulations, etc., and I’d say he likely did this very much willfully and purposely, not out of ignorance or forgetfulness or whatever else. Not at all the same.
 
DaleB said:
I have a nickel that says there's tax evasion charges coming in a separate action.

Not Alaska, but several years ago I was doing some Champ shopping. I talked to more than one guy who had a Champ that hadn't had an annual in recent years, may or may not have had valid registration, and the pilot hadn't had a valid medical in years (and this was before Basic Med) -- they just fly off the farm strip, nobody knows or cares. I guess it shouldn't have surprised me, but it did.
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We used to have a lot of those farm pilots around here in central NY. I’m sure there are still a few left. Those guys don’t bother anyone.
 
mryan75 said:
We used to have a lot of those farm pilots around here in central NY. I’m sure there are still a few left. Those guys don’t bother anyone.
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Yeah... I know one of the ones I talked to was in ND. And agreed, if the guy is flying off a farm strip in BFE and not bothering anybody, there's a reason they get away with doing it indefinitely. They don't bother anyone, no one complains, no government agencies get involved because they just don't know about it. The nut cases and a-holes tend to weed themselves out.
 
mryan75 said:
We used to have a lot of those farm pilots around here in central NY. I’m sure there are still a few left. Those guys don’t bother anyone.
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NY? For some reason I picture that state as a place where everything is “verboten” by default and one is expected to apply for permission as a starting point for just about everything ….
 
Lots of sketchy stuff goes on in Alaska, even with those who are fully certificated.
 
Warmi said:
NY? For some reason I picture that state as a place where everything is “verboten” by default and one is expected to apply for permission as a starting point for just about everything ….
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Well, yes... but NY state is a big place and once you're far enough away from the big cities it's easier to ignore the busybodies in Albany and NYC...
 
Warmi said:
NY? For some reason I picture that state as a place where everything is “verboten” by default and one is expected to apply for permission as a starting point for just about everything ….
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Except for the two big islands and vicinity, most of NY is actually pretty rural.

As to the people that break laws and don't want to be citizens, it sounds simple to me. Allow them to revoke their citizenship at a simple hearing, then after that just detain them indefinitely, or ship them to someone else that might want them. They're effectively self-declared enemy combatants. Or, alternatively, hold them in contempt of court w/o outside communication until they change their mind. It's not that I'm a fan of all the layers of bureaucracy we have, or that I have any anger toward nuts; it's just that I'm certain that we can't collectively afford to have people walking around that somehow believe that they have a free pass to ignore society or the law.
 
Albany Tom said:
Except for the two big islands and vicinity, most of NY is actually pretty rural.

As to the people that break laws and don't want to be citizens, it sounds simple to me. Allow them to revoke their citizenship at a simple hearing, then after that just detain them indefinitely, or ship them to someone else that might want them. They're effectively self-declared enemy combatants. Or, alternatively, hold them in contempt of court w/o outside communication until they change their mind. It's not that I'm a fan of all the layers of bureaucracy we have, or that I have any anger toward nuts; it's just that I'm certain that we can't collectively afford to have people walking around that somehow believe that they have a free pass to ignore society or the law.
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Most provisions of the Bill of Rights do not say that they only protect citizens.
 
cowman said:
I note that it's in Alaska, always heard that operating without a certificate was fairly common up there. I've never met anyone who openly operated outside the rules but it's not like I'm gonna check. Given that unless there's an incident/accident nobody is likely to check I imagine it's more common than we'd think.
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In the mid 90s there was a FAA mandate to try to get all the certificated pilots legal.
 
I think this guy is a rookie sovereign citizen. He was supposed to claim he wasn’t flying, he was traveling. He only needs a license if he is engaged in commerce.
 
Warmi said:
NY? For some reason I picture that state as a place where everything is “verboten” by default and one is expected to apply for permission as a starting point for just about everything ….
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Well flying by without a pilot certificate is “verboten@ at the federal level, so NY would be like any other state.
 
MauleSkinner said:
But when the kinder, gentler FAA contacts you with regard to an investigation, and you tell them they have no authority over you, you end up in leg irons. Especially if you’re operating a commercial aviation business.
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Yeah, exactly. The rest of the people that did wrong way launches into traffic probably said, "oh, ****, my bad. Sorry! Here's how it happened" instead of "you have no authority over me".

X3 Skier said:
I note that the Magistrate ordered him “not to operate an aircraft”. I’m sure that will be effective:rolleyes:
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I've watched enough of these jokers in court that I feel fairly certain that the judge was doing little more than drawing a very, very clear line in the sand to easily justify a bond revocation, followed by a vacation in a cement box waiting for trial. The sense I get is that reality does impose itself on these guys reasonably quickly and the judges don't want to clog the jails any more than they have to, so they give everyone a minute to take a breath and follow some pretty easy instructions.
 
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