Southwest cancelled my flight, so I flew myself to work

[FlyingMonkey]

I have heard a hard a hard and fast rule for IFR flight is if the freezing level is at or below the MEA for the route, it is a no-go. This situation led me to see some grey area in that rule....

Curious as to other's thoughts about this. Is it an automatic no-go for you if the forecast freezing level is at or below MEA?

Clouds, rain, MEAs at the freezing level and a fuel stop (or maybe two) in the desert- a fun and challenging flight when Southwest Airlines cancelled my flight to work and I flew myself to Albuquerque in the Cherokee 6.

Hope you enjoy!

 

[1000RR]

Sent you a PM...

 

[Zeldman]

Most definitely the definition of light IFR....

Stop by in Gallup on the way home and I'll take you to the best mexican food restaurant in town......Taco Bell.!!

It is also the second best asian food restaurant in town. But I understand, there are better restaurants in Sedona.

As for your question, when I was actively flying, known icing was a strong factor in my decision making here in the southwest. Forecast icing would make me look at temps at different altitudes, and pireps were a big help. Super cooled water droplets were my biggest concern.

Freezing levels can be near or on the ground in winter, but lack of moisture makes it an easy go. If snowing and below freezing is still a go for me as long as the plane has not been in a nice warm hangar. A thin layer of clouds as you were in would not bother me as long as the sun is shinning above the clouds.

I know you are wanting to avoid ice in a no ice protection plane, so I would want to avoid clouds when the outside temps are below freezing, but even being in clouds in below freezing temps doesn't mean you will see ice.

Another thing to keep in mind is I have a fairly large amount of varied weather flying and also flew pressurized twins approved for icing, so my advice is probably worth the price you paid for it...

 

[Jim K]

I have heard a hard a hard and fast rule for IFR flight is if the freezing level is at or below the MEA for the route, it is a no-go. This situation led me to see some grey area in that rule....

Curious as to other's thoughts about this. Is it an automatic no-go for you if the forecast freezing level is at or below MEA?

I believe that's Jason Miller's rule, which maybe makes sense in sunny California. In parts of the world where it actually gets cold you'll be grounded all winter. Feels like kind of a dodge to me.

I wish more cfii's would discuss how to predict and deal with ice. It seems everyone wants to be on the safe side and just never fly in the winter. My cfii gave me some good tips, but frankly I've learned more reading discussions here.

My experience, which is admittedly limited, is that it's not too hard to get above layers in the winter. If it's not too juicy I have no qualms about climbing through a sub freezing layer for a couple minutes. Pireps and the AWC icing tool are the keys here. If there are no pireps.... well that's a sign in and of itself. Like you say in the video... have outs.

 

[WDD]

IMC sounds like moisture in the air, and below freezing level sounds like converting that moisture into ice. So I would say no, because I don't fly planes with de icing and can fly into the teens / high enough to get out of icing, and/or go fast enough to get through it without icing up.

Is is that simple? Honest question - I'm 30 days or so from my IFR checkride - still learning.

 

[NoHeat]

I enjoyed the video.

Interesting how you chose to fly airways. Was terrain the reason?

I ask because I haven’t encountered a reason to file a plan with airways to deal with IMC here in the Midwest.

 

[Rgbeard]

I enjoyed the video.

Interesting how you chose to fly airways. Was terrain the reason?

I ask because I haven’t encountered a reason to file a plan with airways to deal with IMC here in the Midwest.

With the terrain and restricted airspace all over, the wide open spaces of the west aren’t that open. We use airways.

East of the Rockies I have gotten a Direct clearance hundreds of miles away. It’s a different world.

 

[wayne]

With the terrain and restricted airspace all over, the wide open spaces of the west aren’t that open. We use airways.

East of the Rockies I have gotten a Direct clearance hundreds of miles away. It’s a different world.

Until you get to the northeast and then it's airways again, and not long straight ones like out west. More like "airways from hell", at least for those of us that regularly hear, "direct destination".

 

[wayne]

IMC sounds like moisture in the air, and below freezing level sounds like converting that moisture into ice. So I would say no, because I don't fly planes with de icing and can fly into the teens / high enough to get out of icing, and/or go fast enough to get through it without icing up.

Is is that simple? Honest question - I'm 30 days or so from my IFR checkride - still learning.

That's certainly an easy-safe route. It's amazing how different ice in clouds is in an area after only a short time. I've been through clouds descending and picked up a trace of ice and then 30 mins later and climbed back up and got none.

One time doing a check-out in a DA-40 late in the day in the winter and we picked up a very thin trace of ice on one approach. Only saw it as we were watching for it. Climbed back up on the missed and nothing. Flew back to the home airport and again, nothing going back down again through the clouds. We knew the cloud layer was thin and the air was above freezing below the clouds, as we had been flying around in the area for a couple of hours at that point.

 

[RudyP]

With the terrain and restricted airspace all over, the wide open spaces of the west aren’t that open. We use airways.

East of the Rockies I have gotten a Direct clearance hundreds of miles away. It’s a different world.

Yeah, on the costs you can file direct but you'll be cleared on airways. So might as well file what you can expect to get so that you have it preloaded when you get your clearance. If you also fly in the flight levels, you will almost always get departures and arrivals too.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

I enjoyed the video.

Interesting how you chose to fly airways. Was terrain the reason?

I ask because I haven’t encountered a reason to file a plan with airways to deal with IMC here in the Midwest.

The off route altitudes are much higher over the mountains so the airways kept me as low as possible to stay out of freezing temps.

 

[Lachlan]

The real issue here is “Can he log it, and are all the expenses reimbursable?” Come on, PoA, you’re slipping.

 

[chemgeek]

If I used this freezing level rule I would probably never be able to launch IFR 6-8 months of the year. In my region, we get copious lake effect clouds in winter and transitional seasons, which typically result in 1000-3000 OVC and tops at 5000-8000 MSL. These clouds are typically at or near 0C, and can be, but are not always, icy. If I can file to safely and reliably get above, then it's a go. I just recently did a trip to Cleveland like this. I climbed up through the lake effect layer, -2C to -5C, with no icing, and quickly got on top at 10,000 MSL about 2000-3000 feet above the tops. Ceilings below were around 2000 AGL. The layer started to break up West of Lake Ontario, but an IFR descent or approach would have been OK at the other end by minimizing time in potential icing layers.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

If I used this freezing level rule I would probably never be able to launch IFR 6-8 months of the year. In my region, we get copious lake effect clouds in winter and transitional seasons, which typically result in 1000-3000 OVC and tops at 5000-8000 MSL. These clouds are typically at or near 0C, and can be, but are not always, icy. If I can file to safely and reliably get above, then it's a go. I just recently did a trip to Cleveland like this. I climbed up through the lake effect layer, -2C to -5C, with no icing, and quickly got on top at 10,000 MSL about 2000-3000 feet above the tops. Ceilings below were around 2000 AGL. The layer started to break up West of Lake Ontario, but an IFR descent or approach would have been OK at the other end by minimizing time in potential icing layers.

This is an interesting take on it- thank you.

 

[Palmpilot]

In case it hasn't been mentioned before, there's been a lot of talk in recent decades about using Skew-T Log-P diagrams to estimate icing potential. I'm a total novice on this subject, but what I've gathered from the following Web pages is that these charts show the icing potential at different pressure altitudes by showing which have temperatures below freezing, and which have highly saturated air, as indicated by the dew point being equal or close to the temperature. Apparently icing is most likely at altitudes that have highly saturated air at or below freezing.

https://airfactsjournal.com/2018/08/how-to-use-a-skew-t-log-p-diagram/

https://www.avwxtraining.com/post/an-icing-signature-on-the-skew-t-you-should-remember

https://www.weather.gov/media/aviation/afp/Using Skew-Ts to Assess Icing _and Wind Shear.pptx

 

[VWGhiaBob]

Great Video! Same here...almost...

Southwest cancelled my KPSP - KOAK flight the night before and rescheduled me on a flight that would have me arrive way too late for my 1pm meeting. So, making lemonade from a big lemon...

KOAK was very IFR with icing. Southwest offered to fly me from KBUR instead of KPSP and gave me a $100 voucher. So I had a beautiful morning flight to Burbank, transferred to SWA and arrived Oakland right on time. Turned a bad situation into a great day!

Bonus: Snapped this picture, sunrise at KPSP!

I have heard a hard a hard and fast rule for IFR flight is if the freezing level is at or below the MEA for the route, it is a no-go. This situation led me to see some grey area in that rule....

Curious as to other's thoughts about this. Is it an automatic no-go for you if the forecast freezing level is at or below MEA?

Clouds, rain, MEAs at the freezing level and a fuel stop (or maybe two) in the desert- a fun and challenging flight when Southwest Airlines cancelled my flight to work and I flew myself to Albuquerque in the Cherokee 6.

Hope you enjoy!

I have heard a hard a hard and fast rule for IFR flight is if the freezing level is at or below the MEA for the route, it is a no-go. This situation led me to see some grey area in that rule....

Curious as to other's thoughts about this. Is it an automatic no-go for you if the forecast freezing level is at or below MEA?

Clouds, rain, MEAs at the freezing level and a fuel stop (or maybe two) in the desert- a fun and challenging flight when Southwest Airlines cancelled my flight to work and I flew myself to Albuquerque in the Cherokee 6.

Hope you enjoy!

 

[s35pilot]

No. Not an automatic no-go. Depends on cloud coverage, ceiling, terrain altitude, and number of airports along my route.