Southwest back in the news

Worst planes, service, boarding and loyalty in the industry. true customer appreciation is exactly what you're seeing now. They appreciate their customers so much they are encouraging them to use airlines that have things like proper loyalty, assigned seats, upgraded seats, ability to charge your phone, some sort of food service. You know stuff that actually makes it bearable to fly anymore. Southwest has been the basement of the industry for a long time.
 
NJP_MAN said:
Worst planes, service, boarding and loyalty in the industry. true customer appreciation is exactly what you're seeing now. They appreciate their customers so much they are encouraging them to use airlines that have things like proper loyalty, assigned seats, upgraded seats, ability to charge your phone, some sort of food service. You know stuff that actually makes it bearable to fly anymore. Southwest has been the basement of the industry for a long time.
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Lol, sounds like someone who hasn't flown Southwest in decades. I was rarely late, their employees (especially flight staff) were always smiling and helpful. They generally seemed to have a good time on the flights, and people boarded quickly using their process. I never cared about having "an assigned seat". I also didn't feel like the 737-series was a "worst plane". I do understand that they often attract certain flyers due to being an economy-carrier, but I'd fly SWA over AAL any day of the week. At least I'm likely to arrive on-time with SWA and I know I won't get shoved into an clapped-out RJ. I flew airlines at least once a month, if not twice, for over a decade from 2009-2020. I probably had 10 round trips a year on SWA at a minimum. I can't think of a single bad experience that had anything to do with SWA.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Lol, sounds like someone who hasn't flown Southwest in decades. I was rarely late, their employees (especially flight staff) were always smiling and helpful. They generally seemed to have a good time on the flights, and people boarded quickly using their process. I never cared about having "an assigned seat". I also didn't feel like the 737-series was a "worst plane". I do understand that they often attract certain flyers due to being an economy-carrier, but I'd fly SWA over AAL any day of the week. At least I'm likely to arrive on-time with SWA and I know I won't get shoved into an clapped-out RJ. I flew airlines at least once a month, if not twice, for over a decade from 2009-2020. I probably had 10 round trips a year on SWA at a minimum. I can't think of a single bad experience that had anything to do with SWA.
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The staff & crew have always been fantastic on southwest, I flew them not long ago

But outside of that you are only getting a seat in a machine that goes from A to B. The six flights I've taken in the last 3 years or so have all arrived late* . Asterisk that the one that actually arrived on time we ended up sitting outside the gate for 20 minutes, not because there was a plane in our spot, but because of "staff scheduling issues" they did not have anybody to operate the jetway

Compare that to service you get, never mind on Delta or KLM or Air France or a real carrier, but even Spirit or Frontier seem to at least combine the good cabin crew service with a slightly stronger overall product

SWA has always had this niche following though. Unless you're flying alone or want to pay extra and join some other program or do the 24-hour exact thing not having assigned seats is very "city bus"

But yes their cabin crew always seem to have a smile on their face, and that's important
 
Tantalum said:
The staff & crew have always been fantastic on southwest, I flew them not long ago

But outside of that you are only getting a seat in a machine that goes from A to B. The six flights I've taken in the last 3 years or so have all arrived late* . Asterisk that the one that actually arrived on time we ended up sitting outside the gate for 20 minutes, not because there was a plane in our spot, but because of "staff scheduling issues" they did not have anybody to operate the jetway

Compare that to service you get, never mind on Delta or KLM or Air France or a real carrier, but even Spirit or Frontier seem to at least combine the good cabin crew service with a slightly stronger overall product

SWA has always had this niche following though. Unless you're flying alone or want to pay extra and join some other program or do the 24-hour exact thing not having assigned seats is very "city bus"

But yes their cabin crew always seem to have a smile on their face, and that's important
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I get that they aren't going to have the level of service of DAL or UAL, and I'm sure they've slipped a bit in their overall service over the years, but I just haven't had many outright bad experiences. I flew United/Continental quite a bit as well and had no major problems overall with them, but they don't hold a candle to Emirates or Qatar. I could almost guarantee that American was going to be late, and 99% of the time it was a "maintenance issue". AAL flight attendants also tended to be generally grouchy, but that may just be the crew I typically got.
 
I have flown with southwest exclusively for the last 10 yrs, Great service, decent prices, lots of flight choices, nice newer planes.
 
Frontier, Aligient and Spirit are under the barrel. A friend flew Frontier recently. She’s 5 Ft tall and her knees were touching the seat back of the row in front of her. If anyone of them has mechanical issue you’re likely to be stranded for days.

Im happy with SWA since the big boys only operate Barbie jets where I fly.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Lol, sounds like someone who hasn't flown Southwest in decades. I was rarely late, their employees (especially flight staff) were always smiling and helpful. They generally seemed to have a good time on the flights, and people boarded quickly using their process. I never cared about having "an assigned seat". I also didn't feel like the 737-series was a "worst plane". I do understand that they often attract certain flyers due to being an economy-carrier, but I'd fly SWA over AAL any day of the week. At least I'm likely to arrive on-time with SWA and I know I won't get shoved into an clapped-out RJ. I flew airlines at least once a month, if not twice, for over a decade from 2009-2020. I probably had 10 round trips a year on SWA at a minimum. I can't think of a single bad experience that had anything to do with SWA.
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I was A List preferred last year. And I got treated to the same $hi%&$ seat every flight. I got to walk on to a plane with A1 boarding to find there were already 20 connecting pax on board. It's a bad deal for people who actually travel for work.
 
NJP_MAN said:
I was A List preferred last year. And I got treated to the same $hi%&$ seat every flight. I got to walk on to a plane with A1 boarding to find there were already 20 connecting pax on board. It's a bad deal for people who actually travel for work.
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Sometimes that's the case. However, I'm not usually too bothered by sitting 6 rows back instead of the front row. It makes little difference in the amount of time it takes to get off of the plane.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Lol, sounds like someone who hasn't flown Southwest in decades. I was rarely late, their employees (especially flight staff) were always smiling and helpful. They generally seemed to have a good time on the flights, and people boarded quickly using their process. I never cared about having "an assigned seat". I also didn't feel like the 737-series was a "worst plane". I do understand that they often attract certain flyers due to being an economy-carrier, but I'd fly SWA over AAL any day of the week. At least I'm likely to arrive on-time with SWA and I know I won't get shoved into an clapped-out RJ. I flew airlines at least once a month, if not twice, for over a decade from 2009-2020. I probably had 10 round trips a year on SWA at a minimum. I can't think of a single bad experience that had anything to do with SWA.
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Yeah well you're from Oklahoma. You're used to a certain lower standard of living.

I kid. I kid.

Maybe.

:D

I'm not a Southwest fan. They've always been late for me and I prefer assigned seats.
 
NJP_MAN said:
I was A List preferred last year. And I got treated to the same $hi%&$ seat every flight. I got to walk on to a plane with A1 boarding to find there were already 20 connecting pax on board. It's a bad deal for people who actually travel for work.
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With 20 other people on the whole plane, you couldn't find a decent seat? I'm frequently in the C group and get good seats because the first 100 people seem to think they're going to get their own empty row.
 
Lindberg said:
With 20 other people on the whole plane, you couldn't find a decent seat? I'm frequently in the C group and get good seats because the first 100 people seem to think they're going to get their own empty row.
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There's only like 2 seats on the whole plane that are any better than the rest. If you're tall those seat are not good on that aircraft. I don't have the option to buy a better seat. Then they have the audacity to sell the first 15 tickets for more money but there are already 20+ pax on board. What's the point in that. No real food option and a dead phone battery are expected too.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Sometimes that's the case. However, I'm not usually too bothered by sitting 6 rows back instead of the front row. It makes little difference in the amount of time it takes to get off of the plane.
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I only try for exit row seats since my knees touch the back of the seat in front of me. It's downright uncomfortable to fly like that.
 
If the seat pitch killed my legs, I would fly another airline. I am tall, but sitting a little diagonal solves my space problem.

90% of my flights are SWA, and the price/service balance is to my liking.

747 to New Zealand was not SWA, and the added space was much appreciated for that 17 hour flight. The ticket price reflected the upgrade.

Funny thing, I was on an SWA flight that made an enroute stop, pax got off, a substantial number of through pax grabbed bags, and moved to the front. Entering A ticket pax were visibly annoyed that there were NO isle seats in the front part, and no empty seats at all in the first 10 rows.
That is just how SWA is, the plane is full, and tickets cheap, compared to most of the competition.

The staff has been consistently pleasant on my flights, and I compliment them. Makes the smile larger. Even multiplies the snacks.
 
Morgan3820 said:
It must really suck having to fly commercial
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I am presently >9000 miles from my home base, flew here commercially. How long would it take to fly here in whatever non-commercial carrier you have access to?

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Nauga,
from where it doesn't suck
 
NJP_MAN said:
There's only like 2 seats on the whole plane that are any better than the rest. If you're tall those seat are not good on that aircraft. I don't have the option to buy a better seat. Then they have the audacity to sell the first 15 tickets for more money but there are already 20+ pax on board. What's the point in that. No real food option and a dead phone battery are expected too.
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Behind the exit row, window seat with no seat in front. I'll fight anyone for that seat.
 
nauga said:
I am presently >9000 miles from my home base, flew here commercially. How long would it take to fly here in whatever non-commercial carrier you have access to? Long ago, I stopped flying for work. When I do, I have to fly commercial like I will next month, it’ll be a direct flight. Dulles to Dublin. No layovers.

15084643be3336424d.jpg


Nauga,
from where it doesn't suck
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You got me there. Honestly, I have to fly commercial for a similar reason in a month. But I do work to keep it to a minimum.
 
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SoonerAviator said:
but I'd fly SWA over AAL any day of the week.
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I think you have an overly rosy picture of SWA. I do agree with the above statement though. But comparing an airline to AA will make anyone look good.

SWA is not the worst, but they ain’t as good as they once was. I have several SWA pilot friends and they are just not happy. It truly saddens me to see where that airline has gone in recent years.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Bet you didn't take Southwest
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We did/will, for one leg each direction. I don't mind Southwest as long as they can keep their schedule running smoothly (which I admit is not a given). I look at it as a bus, not a limo, and operated accordingly.

Almost unrelated but cool, the final leg in was in a Twin Otter on floats. Not as comfortable as Southwest but I still didn't mind.

Nauga,
twottered
 
Flying is one the very few things that have gotten cheaper over the years. The consumer gets what the consumer wants. You want a Concorde experience then fly Emirates.
 
Fearless Tower said:
SWA is not the worst, but they ain’t as good as they once was. I have several SWA pilot friends and they are just not happy.
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None of the legacy domestic carriers are as good as they once were from a customer standpoint, happy pilots or otherwise.

francisco collazos said:
You want a Concorde experience then fly Emirates.
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They have us for legs 2 & 3 of the above mentioned trip, both ways :cool:

Nauga,
the card collector
 
nauga said:
None of the legacy domestic carriers are as good as they once were from a customer standpoint, happy pilots or otherwise.

They have us for legs 2 & 3 of the above mentioned trip, both ways :cool:

Nauga,
the card collector
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Hopefully you'll get bumped to business class (or you've already booked it). Definitely makes the longer legs much better on Emirates.
 
Time to spare, go by air.
 
Savages were the folks on the flight from JFK to Doha last month on Qatar. Holy hell I've never seen a cabin so destroyed after a flight. Literally **** on the floors of the bathrooms and dirty diapers left on the floor of the cabin.
 
nauga said:
My god, man, we're not savages.

Nauga,
and a subject for another site
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Well, the business class tickets I used to purchase for my business trips to Dubai/Abu Dhabi were $7-$8K round trip with Emirates. That's a lot of moolah to swing if it's not on the company dime. It was worth it over the $2K coach ticket for a 15-hr direct flight from DFW.
 
Me and my wife went to Hawaii for our honeymoon... I rather go to the Caribbean but you know...happy wife, happy life. Anyways, I really did not want to spend hours upon hours on a plane.. Well guess what, I was right and the flight home was the worse experience ever. In retrospect I should have paid to upgrade our tickets to first class but I think the upgrade was about $600/pp. Anyways, it was torture because I am a horrible sleeper and it was impossible to sleep in that cabin the way our seats were. ....pure torture.. The Caribbean is much nicer anyways.
 
francisco collazos said:
Me and my wife went to Hawaii for our honeymoon... I rather go to the Caribbean but you know...happy wife, happy life. Anyways, I really did not want to spend hours upon hours on a plane.. Well guess what, I was right and the flight home was the worse experience ever. In retrospect I should have paid to upgrade our tickets to first class but I think the upgrade was about $600/pp. Anyways, it was torture because I am a horrible sleeper and it was impossible to sleep in that cabin the way our seats were. ....pure torture.. The Caribbean is much nicer anyways.
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I've gone to Hawaii for business at least once a year since 2013. Southwest, Hawaiian, Alaska, American, United, anything that goes where I go when I go. They all pretty much run together as far as comfort and quality of service go, and all but Southwest have different classes. If your seats are uncomfortable but you can't or won't move up a class the problem is not with the airlines. I realize not everyone can afford it, but complaining that it's awful and the airline's fault because you can't or won't upgrade is disingenuous.

I am rarely able to sleep on airplanes regardless of the class and comfort, and I've flown in stuff that's a lot less comfortable, so I usually just get coach. And don't complain.

WRT the caribbean and quality of service, I was once told by Delta customer disservice that my Delta Atlanta->Bonaire ticket wasn't valid for *** international perk because Bonaire (Netherlands Antilles) was a domestic flight.

Nauga,
who loves Hawaii
 
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Southwest used to be my go to airline but it seems like after the pandemic their prices are through the roof and they are no longer the deal they used to be. I don't mind not having a selected seat or some of the fewer amenities compared to other airlines but I also expect a lower or at least equal price. The only thing they still have going for them is they are still not charging extra for bags.
 
No, it isn't disingenuous, and it is an airline problem. just because someone has been boiled slowly to accept the theft in volumetrics, doesn't mean it's not objectively unworkable for 3 male US adults to sit across three 16 inch width seats with a single armrest separator already thinner than a human female upper arm with the minimum anatomically required presence of muscle and tendons. The pitch issue is often talked more, in my opinion too much for distracting effect. But it's seat width where the real theft in long duration seating tolerance has occurred.

It's easy to handwave it away as a fat people complaint but it has nothing with fat people. Load factors are higher now, and seats on a volumetrics more expensive, not less.

Yes, that indignity works when you're trying to cross the planet in 24 hours, but for domestic hops that could be done by a train (well, if the country's rail infrastructure didn't stink of regulatory capture and public carriage disinvestment), no way. Not for 500-800+ round trip it doesn't.

In 1985 no seats in US4 were narrower than 19 inches. Today some seats in united's domestic offering are as narrow as 16 inches. And remember, people were thinner in 1985, and load factors were lower. Ergo it's an airline causation, not consumer health causation. 1985 was post deregulation as well, so don't give me the "those tickets were 3k inflation adjusted", they simply weren't. Some people are still able to remember pre 197x airline pricing. Deregulation was either cheaper or more expensive, it can't be both to suit an argument of consumer-blaming.
 
You have choices. If you are unable to choose the better option, I'm sorry, maybe a different provider or medium will suit you better. If you choose not to exercise them, that is your choice. Live with 'em.

Nauga,
and the scale of economy
 
hindsight2020 said:
No, it isn't disingenuous, and it is an airline problem. just because someone has been boiled slowly to accept the theft in volumetrics, doesn't mean it's not objectively unworkable for 3 male US adults to sit across three 16 inch width seats with a single armrest separator already thinner than a human female upper arm with the minimum anatomically required presence of muscle and tendons. The pitch issue is often talked more, in my opinion too much for distracting effect. But it's seat width where the real theft in long duration seating tolerance has occurred.

It's easy to handwave it away as a fat people complaint but it has nothing with fat people. Load factors are higher now, and seats on a volumetrics more expensive, not less.

Yes, that indignity works when you're trying to cross the planet in 24 hours, but for domestic hops that could be done by a train (well, if the country's rail infrastructure didn't stink of regulatory capture and public carriage disinvestment), no way. Not for 500-800+ round trip it doesn't.

In 1985 no seats in US4 were narrower than 19 inches. Today some seats in united's domestic offering are as narrow as 16 inches. And remember, people were thinner in 1985, and load factors were lower. Ergo it's an airline causation, not consumer health causation. 1985 was post deregulation as well, so don't give me the "those tickets were 3k inflation adjusted", they simply weren't. Some people are still able to remember pre 197x airline pricing. Deregulation was either cheaper or more expensive, it can't be both to suit an argument of consumer-blaming.
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Interesting analysis for sure. I’m afraid I disagree on the comparison of air travel to rail, but that’s another topic. I’m a grown adult male and I don’t find an issue with airline seat width. Comfort? Now that’s a separate story, but I also don’t fly an ultra low cost carrier and expect to get the level of service that Delta provides, so the mileage may vary depending on your viewpoint from the start.
 
Wasn't the 757/737/727 configured as a 3 and 3 the entire time? It's not like the cabin got thinner.

Edit: Larry beat me to it.
 
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