souls on board

GeorgeC

GeorgeC

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I noticed that "souls on board" changed to "persons on board" in ForeFlight; yet another ICAO thing?
 
Having transported a body I'm curious how one is supposed to answer a controller's inquiry during an emergency. "Souls" was always intended to indicate how many people might need medical attention at the scene.
 
I have been I told I don’t have a soul ... so persons on board works for me, I will probably reply with 2 persons on board.... since I am getting closer to 2 person body weight
 
"POB", for "Persons on Board" is very common outside of the US. Many countries require a "POB" report on initial contact with that countries ATC. First call to center/approach on arrival or first call to ground on departure. In many places, they won't issue a pushback or engine start clearance until POB is reported. (Yes, in many countries an engine-start clearance is required)
 
Reminds me of one of the best Bryan T videos.
 
Carrying dead bodies I would put the total number for souls on board, then in the remarks section I would put 1 non-living.
 
aftCG said:
Having transported a body I'm curious how one is supposed to answer a controller's inquiry during an emergency. "Souls" was always intended to indicate how many people might need medical attention at the scene.
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Yup. And you should should include the stiff in the number. Don't want the crash crew to find 3 bodies and say we got em all out only to find out one of them was the stiff and the fourth 'soul, person or who or whatever' got left behind. Letting them know one of the bodies is already dead is a good idea.
 
Human Remains (HR) are carried on a surprising number of commercial flights in the US. If you fly regularly, you almost certainly have flown with someone in the cargo hold.

The only know I knew for certain was a Gold Star flight, which I saw from the terminal window. Delta ramp crew who were veterans formed an honor guard and the escort also walked with the widow and the casket. Not very many dry eyes on the plane or in the terminal. It's never an easy thing, but it's always the right thing.
 
Many years ago I had a "moonlight" flying job that occasionally required transporting deceased individuals. In the remarks section of the flight plan I entered "funeral flight". That satisifed the "head count".
 
I once flew an organ donor on life support to keep his organs alive even though he was brain dead. I contemplated changing the flight plan for a minute (I had thought I was going to be flying a live patient), but didn't.
 
Everskyward said:
I once flew an organ donor on life support to keep his organs alive even though he was brain dead. I contemplated changing the flight plan for a minute (I had thought I was going to be flying a live patient), but didn't.
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So that would make him a person but not a soul? Or the other way around?
 
Last time (decades go, thankfully) I rode a Greyhound bus, the guy I had to sit next to smelled dead.
 
I think it changed after a few crashes with politicians. They realized that not all passengers had a soul.
 
Everskyward said:
I once flew an organ donor on life support to keep his organs alive even though he was brain dead. I contemplated changing the flight plan for a minute (I had thought I was going to be flying a live patient), but didn't.
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At my med job we counted them because there still hadn’t been an official declaration of death. Those were the hardest trips for me. It was a pediatric hospital. Parts runs for kids are not fun.
 
I have only carried deceased once. We had 2 crew, 2 lawyers and 2 deceased. I cannot remember how many I put on the flight plan but should I have included the lawyers??:)
 
luvflyin said:
Were the deceased clients of the lawyers?
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Yes, we took the lawyers with us to help get the bodies released. The deceased died in a commuter plane crash in the early 90's.
 
Plano Pilot said:
Yes, we took the lawyers with us to help get the bodies released. The deceased died in a commuter plane crash in the early 90's.
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Lol. My question was just a punchline. Like the Lawyers were bringing the bodies back from their execution.
 
My understanding of “souls on board” was inherited from maritime practice as ships would carry dead bodies on occasion so someone could be buried in another location/country.

Possible to have crew & passengers, and someone as cargo. Search & rescue and medical services want to identify and plan for the living.

Souls on board eliminated any ambiguity in live headcount.
 
NordicDave said:
My understanding of “souls on board” was inherited from maritime practice as ships would carry dead bodies on occasion so someone could be buried in another location/country.
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I don't buy it. It almost certainly came to aviation via a shared nautical heritage but it's an antiquated term for "individual" that goes back to the earliest times of English (about 1225) in all manner of things other than ships. I don't think dead bodies has anything to do with it. In fact, some of the translations of Leviticus don't even restrict soul to meaning humans, just any living individual Lev 11:45. While the Hebrew word is closer to "creature" some versions translate it as souls.
 
flyingron said:
In fact, some of the translations of Leviticus don't even restrict soul to meaning humans, just any living individual Lev 11:45. While the Hebrew word is closer to "creature" some versions translate it as souls.
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I don't see the reference you speak of in Lev 11:45. Can you clarify please?
 
I made a short flight once wherein I landed with one fewer souls onboard than when I departed.
 
IK04 said:
I made a short flight once wherein I landed with one fewer souls onboard than when I departed.
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If you departed, how are you here to talk about it?
 
IK04 said:
We started with four and landed with three. Grandma didn't make it. It was a 135 charter flight in Alaska.
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That must’ve been a horrible experience.:(


Anyone ever taken off with N and landed with N+1?
 
kath said:
That must’ve been a horrible experience.:(


Anyone ever taken off with N and landed with N+1?
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Yes. My cardinal rule in the air ambulance was..."Life does not end, nor begin in the airplane."


That rule was broken more than once....
 
I always hesitate on that when I’m flying with my dogs.....they’ve better souls than most people I know.
 
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