Something going on around DC

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MPB

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MPB
Hi folks,

I'm hearing news of sonic booms in DC and a Citation down in SW Virginia.

Lots of rumors (perhaps just that) on twitter.

What's up folks?
 
The flight track looks like it followed the planned route up to ISP and then turned to go direct to 0A9.
I'm wondering if the autopilot was the only one flying the plane at that point.

I've been unable to find any comms yet on Live ATC.
 
Reuters is reporting that the citation was not responding to ATC and flew through restricted airspace before crashing into mountains in Virginia. The sonic booms were the jets scrambled trying to catch up to it. Almost sounds like another Payne Stewart type of incident but who knows.
 
When the flight track ends, it's still at FL300, right? Is that inconsistent with a plane that would have ran out of fuel and slowly descended into terrain? The mountains in VA aren't very high.
 
Baked Potato said:
When the flight track ends, it's still at FL300, right? Is that inconsistent with a plane that would have ran out of fuel and slowly descended into terrain? The mountains in VA aren't very high.
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No, it shows them starting a descent. Look at the tracklog rather than he FlightAware graph.
 
The reports now indeed show they weren't responding to ATC. After the U-Turn, they flew right over DC pretty much causing them to scramble the fighters who caused the sonic boom to catch up with the plane.
 
flyingron said:
No, it shows them starting a descent. Look at the tracklog rather than he FlightAware graph.
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Still the last entry is at 30k feet?

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Does DC restricted airspace go above FL180?

Odd they were held at FL340 eastbound. Seems to have filed 390 per FlightAware?
 
Baked Potato said:
Still the last entry is at 30k feet?

View attachment 117777
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Look at the increase in speed. With that and an 8,000 fpm descent, I’m guessing it began to break up before it crashed, which would explain the loss of signal. I’m sure we’ll find out soon enough what caused it to finally depart from level flight.
 
Flying Keys said:
Look at the increase in speed. With that and an 8,000 fpm descent, I’m guessing it began to break up before it crashed, which would explain the loss of signal. I’m sure we’ll find out soon enough what caused it to finally depart from level flight.
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Yeah, that is what I am wondering. If "began to break up" means that it was shot down.
Or if a simple fuel exhaustion would look the same from the ADS-B data.
 
Possible in-air break-up with Jet Fighter interceptors on the scene and Government Officials saying the plane was not shot down.
Hmmm..... Wonder what the media is going to do with this one.
 
kaiser said:
Does DC restricted airspace go above FL180?

Odd they were held at FL340 eastbound. Seems to have filed 390 per FlightAware?
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The SFRA is stated to go to FL180. I'm not sure what one has to do to fly above that level, or if filed flight plans often (or ever) fly over the SFRA. I haven't paid much attention to that aspect since I'll never be in that situation and only needed to know the procedures to get into/out of the SFRA :p
 
0A9 is my home airport. I was there all day yesterday. Haven't heard anything though.
 
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Anybody who flys these is that they way the autopilot works?? Looks like it it flew the flight plan then turned and flew runway heading
 
benyflyguy said:
Looks like it it flew the flight plan then turned and flew runway heading
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Looks to me like it turned @ ISP instead of landing and decided to fly back home to 0A9. Didn't quite make it.
About 500 nm from 0A9 to ISP. Then flew back another 400 nm before rapid descent. Range of the aircraft is listed as about 2000 nm. But for a flight expected to be 500 nm (from 0A9 to ISP), what would be a normal fuel load or is there no such thing as a normal fuel load?
 
Let’s say pilot is incapacitated. Auto pilot flying the plane. What could account for it hangin’ a 180 over destination and then just flying straight ahead, looking like back to departure point
 
Mongoose Aviator said:
Looks to me like it turned @ ISP instead of landing and decided to fly back home to 0A9. Didn't quite make it.
About 500 nm from 0A9 to ISP. Then flew back another 400 nm before rapid descent. Range of the aircraft is listed as about 2000 nm. But for a flight expected to be 500 nm (from 0A9 to ISP), what would be a normal fuel load or is there no such thing as a normal fuel load?
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Fuel for the trip, plus reserves, plus contingency fuel
 
luvflyin said:
Let’s say pilot is incapacitated. Auto pilot flying the plane. What could account for it hangin’ a 180 over destination and then just flying straight ahead, looking like back to departure point
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The flight plan wasn’t direct KISP, it ended in CCC KISP, presumably to pick up and instrument approach to runway 24. The autopilot flew the leg from the Calverton VOR to the airport, then continued in a straight line.
 
bluesky74656 said:
The flight plan wasn’t direct KISP, it ended in CCC KISP, presumably to pick up and instrument approach to runway 24. The autopilot flew the leg from the Calverton VOR to the airport, then continued in a straight line.
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It followed all the bends in the flight plan route that Flight Aware shows as their filed/assigned route. This took them south of the FRZ. When they got to ISP it seems that the thing went direct back to 0A9 (the departure point) which took them right through the FRZ.
 
Like the previous posts have stated, most likely it was unconsciousness due to unpressurized cabin. Autopilot just flew what it was programmed to do with left turn to airport after final fix. Then heading mode, or similar. Shoot down? Don’t be that gullible. It ran out of gas, one engine at a time.

What’s odd is the news stating it was intercepted at 3:20pm. That would be well after it passed DC on the return leg headed southwest bound. There were two different F-16 units intercepting it and following it. Maybe that 3:20pm time stamp is when the Andrews aircraft took over. I would hate to think they pursued it AFTER it flew into the restricted airspace.

Wow, that’s the second daughter the jet’s owners have lost. The first one to a scuba accident many years earlier.
 
For those saying shoot down, why on earth would the Air Force shoot down a business jet with an unconscious pilot at the helm when it’s well PAST Washington, no threat, in the middle of a forest? It simply ran out of fuel.
 
Assuming the plane is in ALT Hold mode with zero thrust, the AP is going to pitch the plane up into a stall. I do not think this model has anything that would disconnect the AP with stall warning. It does have over-torque disconnect.
 
Had to go NORAD on way to KISP. There’s a lot of talking from where they departed to destination. Wonder when ATC knew there was a problem?? Latest Had to be around the time they didn’t start descending. That’s not a couple of min of flight. Interesting the start to intercept wasn’t alot sooner.
 
luvflyin said:
They went to guns, two shots, one for each tank (and don’t be f’ng up my punchline with how many tanks are in each wing):incazzato:
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Obviously too close for missiles.

Sorry for the pilots and their families. My read is fuel exhaustion after depressurization.
 
I think it’s a coincidence that the last heading in the flight plan had it heading back in the direction of the departure airport.
 
benyflyguy said:
Anybody who flys these is that they way the autopilot works?? Looks like it it flew the flight plan then turned and flew runway heading
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Have flown several citations in the past. Some types have “EDM” (emergency descent mode). If the AP is engaged above FL310, and there is a rapid decompression, the airplane will automatically turn and descend without crew assistance.
Not saying that’s what happened here.
 
texasclouds said:
Assuming the plane is in ALT Hold mode with zero thrust, the AP is going to pitch the plane up into a stall. I do not think this model has anything that would disconnect the AP with stall warning. It does have over-torque disconnect.
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I can picture one engine flaming out and with service ceiling on one engine being mid twenties it starts a descent that the autopilot tries to keep up with. Soon it begins the turn, then when second engine fails the autopilot definitely can’t keep up. Then AP disconnects.
 
luvflyin said:
They went to guns, two shots, one for each tank (and don’t be f’ng up my punchline with how many tanks are in each wing):incazzato:
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A tasteless and inconsiderate post.

Making jokes about killing someone, at the expense of grieving families.
 
NoHeat said:
A tasteless and inconsiderate post.

Making jokes about killing someone, at the expense of grieving families.
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You’re right. My only defense is it was in response to the speculation that they actually shot him down which I considered sensationalist. But I said what I said and I’ll own it.
 
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