Someone is going to lose their shirt on this restoration

Bonchie

Bonchie

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
1,505
Display Name
Display name:
Bonchie

I've run across this guy's videos before. Apparently he sunk $72,500 into this plane and is now asking $89,900 for a Cherokee 140 with a vintage panel (except GTX335 installed) and old paint. Interior is redone and the engine is overhauled, but still.

Convince me this isn't a $40,000 airplane on it's best day. I hope he didn't do this as a real investment. It's one thing to sink money into your own airplane knowing you won't get it back out but there's no money to be made in paying consumer prices to restore a plane and then resell it, especially without a full glass panel being part of the redo.
 
Last edited:
What did he spend that kind of money on if it didn't involve a panel ?
 
He says he bought for 9k and did an overhaul. That’s going to be some profit margin ,if he finds a buyer,at asking price.
 
At the first Cherokee formation non fly in to Oshkosh (the year of sloshkosh) there was the spankiest Cherokee I had ever seen. It put mine to utter shame. Completely refurbished with a state of the 2009 art panel. We asked what the restoration cost. The guy said he didn’t know. He said he put a ceiling of 50 AMU’s on the project, and when he blew through it he just stopped counting.

If I had the money and wanted a Cherokee I’d buy it in a heartbeat. What I’d get is an essentially new Cherokee, which would cost upward of a half million if I could even buy one.
 
weilke said:
What did he spend that kind of money on if it didn't involve a panel ?
Click to expand...

Sounds like the kind of stuff you'd expect to find on a $9k airplane. All kinds of structural issues, plus overhaul, plus a new interior and it doesn't look like he went to a very competitively priced outfit to get the work done either. I believe him when he says he spent $72,500 in all.

steingar said:
At the first Cherokee formation non fly in to Oshkosh (the year of sloshkosh) there was the spankiest Cherokee I had ever seen. It put mine to utter shame. Completely refurbished with a state of the 2009 art panel. We asked what the restoration cost. The guy said he didn’t know. He said he put a ceiling of 50 AMU’s on the project, and when he blew through it he just stopped counting.

If I had the money and wanted a Cherokee I’d buy it in a heartbeat. What I’d get is an essentially new Cherokee, which would cost upward of a half million if I could even buy one.
Click to expand...

No telling what your friend actually sunk into it but he'd of course never expect to get it back out. Friend of mine asked me what I thought of a 140 he was looking at the other day. It was completely redone, low time engine, all glass panel, new paint, much nicer than the one in this video, etc. and they were still only asking $59k for it.

I think Niko here has found a money pit that he might be able to get 50% back on if he's lucky. At the end of the day it's just a 73 Cherokee 140 with an old 430, steam gauges, and an overhauled engine.
 
Bonchie said:

I've run across this guy's videos before. Apparently he sunk $72,500 into this plane and is now asking $89,900 for a Cherokee 140 with a vintage panel (except GTX335 installed) and old paint. Interior is redone and the engine is overhauled, but still.

Convince me this isn't a $40,000 airplane on it's best day. I hope he didn't do this as a real investment. It's one thing to sink money into your own airplane knowing you won't get it back out but there's no money to be made in paying consumer prices to restore a plane and then resell it, especially without a full glass panel being part of the redo.
Click to expand...

Only way I can think of to convince you it’s a $89,900 airplane is to buy it for that. But that ain’t gonna happen.
 
This isn't that uncommon I have noticed. Not sure if it's the "romance of aviation" that sucks people in. Or some other motivation.

I've seen someone totally re-do an old B55 Baron.

And I have a good friend that some years ago bought a completely redone 1966 Mooney M20C from a guy who does one plane a year.
This thing is gorgeous - paint, interior, panel, mechanical. There is no way the guy selling it got what he put into it back. And that's not including any of his labor/time.

The following year he had similarly re-done an older V-tail for sale. I was tempted, but don't fit well in those things.
 
Is this the guy who was heading for the Bahamas and had engine trouble and took his time turning around (or something like that)?
 
Shepherd said:
In the history of the world, I think there are only 3 airplanes that will bring anything the seller asks.
One of them is Amelia Earhart's missing Electra.
Not sure what the other two would be, but logically there has to be two more.
Click to expand...

The Wright Flyer and the Spirit of St. Louis. ;)
 
less than 2 minutes into the video he talks about paint and interior.
 
I'm going to guess there will be a tax writeoff involved at some point. Niko strikes me as the kind of guy that could use a few.
 
GRG55 said:
This isn't that uncommon I have noticed. Not sure if it's the "romance of aviation" that sucks people in. Or some other motivation.

I've seen someone totally re-do an old B55 Baron.
Click to expand...

I can see spending silly money on a 'like new' Baron, probably A Colemill 55 with TKS. Fun plane to fly, lots of utility and nothing comparable available new. But I wouldn't expect anyone else to give me what it would cost to do the refurbishment.
 
well there's a sucker born every minute so someone will probably buy this thing. seems like he just has gobs of money to throw away.
 
This is why it's always cheaper to buy someone else's over-restoration.

I recall watching an episode of Legendary Motor Car, the Velocity show about Canadian Peter Klutt's very cool upscale classic and racing vehicle business.

Klutt was at an Auction America sale (which usually have lower prices than Bonham's, Gooding, or RM), and noticed a really nice 1970 Z-28 in the catalog. The car was a perfect example of an over-restoration. No expense had been spared in rebuilding the vehicle to a condition that was in many ways better than original, particularly the body and paint work.

Peter bought the car for $65,000 IIRC. He estimated the restoration cost was near $200,000.

I'll explain my perspective on this. Sorry it's so long.

When I retired at age 48, I was looking for something interesting to do. I have many years experience in racing, most significantly a ten year stint as a "weekend warrior" in IndyCar. I traveled to every race and did everything regular crew members did in their full time positions. I decided to look around for something related to this.

I volunteered to work at the shop of a man that had an extensive collection of racing cars and expensive foreign autos, several eight figure European vehicles among them. I did this for a couple of years, and it was a fascinating endeavour.

There I learned how it was possible to spend an incredible amount of money and time restoring a vehicle to as-new condition. Restoration costs for Best in Show winners at Pebble Beach (one year we won a category best in a Special Awards class ) sometimes exceed $2-3 million.

Let someone else pay those dollars, and buy the result.
 
Last edited:
I keep reading about how good it is to let someone else pay for the restoration, but where are all these cheap perfectly restored aircraft?
 
Salty said:
I keep reading about how good it is to let someone else pay for the restoration, but where are all these cheap perfectly restored aircraft?
Click to expand...
Sitting on flat tires with your choice of hail damage (stored outside) or pigeon droppings ("hangared") because that someone else was too slow to lower his price to what someone would willingly pay. Any planes that were perfectly restored and priced to sell are likely to have been sold to the first person who saw them for sale and would never be seen by a second potential buyer.
 
No one said they are cheap. I assumed most would follow the logic, but I guess not.

Restorations that spent an inordinate amount of money will be priced at the upper end of other examples, but less than the restoration cost.
 
I realize a GNS430 isn't the latest and greatest, but I wouldn't quite call it vintage.

Still wouldn't pay that much for a Cherokee. For that money I would want something bigger, faster, etc.
 
Bonchie said:
Sounds like the kind of stuff you'd expect to find on a $9k airplane. All kinds of structural issues, plus overhaul, plus a new interior and it doesn't look like he went to a very competitively priced outfit to get the work done either. I believe him when he says he spent $72,500 in all.
Click to expand...

Why would an aircraft with a current annual have "all kinds of structural issues"?
 
3393RP said:
Why would an aircraft with a current annual have "all kinds of structural issues"?
Click to expand...

I'm talking about when he bought it. He bought the plane for $9k. I'm assuming it wasn't even airworthy when he started this project. The list shows they replaced the horizontal stabilator and some other airframe pieces, did the fuel tanks, etc. It was clearly in rough shape.
 
eman1200 said:
less than 2 minutes into the video he talks about paint and interior.
Click to expand...

He says he'll paint it for another $9,500 on the purchase price. So he basically wants $100k for this plane with new paint. I'd also like to never work again and have a billion dollars in the bank.

midwestpa24 said:
I realize a GNS430 isn't the latest and greatest, but I wouldn't quite call it vintage.

Still wouldn't pay that much for a Cherokee. For that money I would want something bigger, faster, etc.
Click to expand...

Maybe not vintage, but if you are going to ask this kind of money for a Cherokee, a non-WAAS 430 and steam gauges isn't the wow factor.
 
Where the logic fails on this one in my opinion is why would I pay him a premium to do a refurb? I could buy a lot of project planes and do the same thing and get it exactly the way I wanted it. There is no shortage of airplanes out there that could use a new interior, paint, an engine and some avionics.
 
Bonchie said:
I'm talking about when he bought it. He bought the plane for $9k. I'm assuming it wasn't even airworthy when he started this project. The list shows they replaced the horizontal stabilator and some other airframe pieces, did the fuel tanks, etc. It was clearly in rough shape.
Click to expand...

I didn't see the list. Where did it show up? Thanks.
 
I have a Cessna 140 that I did for a friend for sale right now that is in that same boat. Over $60,000 in it and asking $45,000. He bought it for $25,000 and I put a new interior, re wired most of it, redid the panel with all new instruments, redid the firwall forward. Aerosport power did the overhaul on the engine to new specs with the O-200 crank and piston conversion. Flow ported and balanced. Beautiful airplane but he won't get his money out of it.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0527.JPG
    IMG_0527.JPG
    148.6 KB · Views: 65
  • IMG_0006.JPG
    IMG_0006.JPG
    208.3 KB · Views: 67
  • IMG_0032.JPG
    IMG_0032.JPG
    125.1 KB · Views: 62
I work in the higher end performance boat business, the typical boat in our shop for service or repair/upgrades is $100-500K with about 10% of them being above $750k. It is very common for people to spend more restoring or upgrading than the boat is worth. From spending half a million on an old 1980's race boat to spending, or $20k on a Dads old 1973 family runabout thts worth $6k when we are done, or spending $250k to get your $800k boat 10 miles and hour faster. Stop trying to figure out he logic, just enjoy the fact that someone is pumping money into these boats or planes because it benefits the rest of us down the line. At some point we are going to run out of $30-40k mid time "needs paint/interior/panel" airplanes and the prices will go go up.
 
DFH65 said:
Where the logic fails on this one in my opinion is why would I pay him a premium to do a refurb? I could buy a lot of project planes and do the same thing and get it exactly the way I wanted it. There is no shortage of airplanes out there that could use a new interior, paint, an engine and some avionics.
Click to expand...

Not everybody is up to dealing with that sort of project. The same reason most people don't build their own homes either. ;)
 
yakdriver said:
I have a Cessna 140 that I did for a friend for sale right now that is in that same boat. Over $60,000 in it and asking $45,000. He bought it for $25,000 and I put a new interior, re wired most of it, redid the panel with all new instruments, redid the firwall forward. Aerosport power did the overhaul on the engine to new specs with the O-200 crank and piston conversion. Flow ported and balanced. Beautiful airplane but he won't get his money out of it.
Click to expand...

That's a lovely 140 alright. A labor of love.
But testimony to what you and others are saying here. There's no economics in it for the sellers. Hope he at least got the enjoyment of flying some hours in the airplane before he put it up for sale.
 
Salty said:
I keep reading about how good it is to let someone else pay for the restoration, but where are all these cheap perfectly restored aircraft?
Click to expand...

These days finding a good airplane to buy, restored or otherwise, usually requires lots of patience, lots of digging, and lots of work.
It took me almost a year to find my twin. And I "kissed a lot of frogs" along the way sifting through one plane after another that was NOT what the seller represented it to be. But in time exactly the right one came on the market, I had the good fortune of dealing with an excellent broker and a realistic and helpful seller, and the pre-purchase and deal was done pretty quickly.

A lot of these "restorations" are probably private deals that never get advertised, as people have their eye on these planes.
 
GRG55 said:
Not everybody is up to dealing with that sort of project. The same reason most people don't build their own homes either. ;)
Click to expand...

I guess if you were actually doing some of the work yourself but walking into a shop and saying fix this thing I don't really care what it costs is really not too hard. :)
 
yakdriver said:
I have a Cessna 140 that I did for a friend for sale right now that is in that same boat. Over $60,000 in it and asking $45,000. He bought it for $25,000 and I put a new interior, re wired most of it, redid the panel with all new instruments, redid the firwall forward. Aerosport power did the overhaul on the engine to new specs with the O-200 crank and piston conversion. Flow ported and balanced. Beautiful airplane but he won't get his money out of it.
Click to expand...

Good thing I just spent all my airplane money. This is beautiful.
 
I have a neighbor renovating a Cessna 140. Practically rebuilding it from scratch. He has 3 years and God knows how many 10's of thousands of dollars into it so far. It will never be worth half what he puts into it. But it's the plane he wants. And it's perfect (or will be when it's done)
 
Salty said:
I have a neighbor renovating a Cessna 140. Practically rebuilding it from scratch. He has 3 years and God knows how many 10's of thousands of dollars into it so far. It will never be worth half what he puts into it. But it's the plane he wants. And it's perfect (or will be when it's done)
Click to expand...

There seems something about the 140. I can understand your friend's motivation.
My first time at Oshkosh back in 1985, we drove and camped in Scholler. Every morning on the way to the flight line I walked by a 140 tied down on the end of a row. It was polished aluminum with blue legacy markings. And of all the airplanes tied down in that area, I could not pass this 140 without walking around it, admiring the polished surfaces, the lines of the airplane and really, really wishing some day I might afford to own one just like it (back then no airplane and not enough money to buy even a basket case Aeronca).
 
This one was an Oshkosh winner in the mid 90's. It has all the original logs, engine etc. Almost flawless stock wheelpants. Needs a good touch up polish and it is spectacular but still a $40-45,000 airplane.
 
I do see builds where someone take a little ol' taildragger and puts some heavy duty IFR panel in it. That's a Whiskey Tango Foxtrot moment to me. i can see someone spiffing up one of those airplanes to better than new condition with a nice VFR panel, but why would you load it up with the IFR stuff? Are you really going to go out and shoot an approach to minimums in a Super Cruiser or equivalent?
 
FormerHangie said:
I do see builds where someone take a little ol' taildragger and puts some heavy duty IFR panel in it. That's a Whiskey Tango Foxtrot moment to me. i can see someone spiffing up one of those airplanes to better than new condition with a nice VFR panel, but why would you load it up with the IFR stuff? Are you really going to go out and shoot an approach to minimums in a Super Cruiser or equivalent?
Click to expand...
I don’t know about that, but I might pay $25,000 to have an accurate compass in the Cub.
 
Saw that video today. He rubs me the wrong way that I just can't put my finger on. Did you guys see the entire video? Near the end they noticed that they'd been flying around with the top latch of the door popped open. I've done this and it creates an ungodly racket over the headset. I have no idea how they didn't notice that.
 
Lol...who in their right mind would spend that much on a Cherokee 140.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top