Someone busting Milwaukee TFR...

ArrowFlyer86

ArrowFlyer86

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The Little Arrow That Could
Minding my own business flying back from Indiana on guard when I hear a radio call up:

"N5357K, south bend approach on guard, acknowledge"

Then again...

Then I'm at 5500 headed to MI just cruising and the radio is silent for a minute... and then the most commanding voice I think I've ever heard on the radio says:

"YOU ARE BEING INTERCEPTED BY THE UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, ROCK YOUR WINGS TO ACKNOWLEDGE" (along with another command I can't remember).

The radio tx was so freaking clear that I thought they were right next to ME! I instinctively looked out my windows thinking somehow I missed a TFR by South bend...

No turns out it's some guy flying across lake Michigan flew into the RNC TFR. Never heard him respond but it looks like despite being hailed on every approach channel, on guard and then by the USAF he continued on towards OSH...
 
Buddy of mine reported that someone did that yesterday and was held at the end of the runway after arriving at Osh. They supposedly held him until his friends in the Secret Service arrived.
 
kyleb said:
Buddy of mine reported that someone did that yesterday and was held at the end of the runway after arriving at Osh. They supposedly held him until his friends in the Secret Service arrived.
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Man.. After what happened last week I'd bet they're going to be in max overdrive looking for any reason to go after potential violators.

Wondering how his greeting at OSH is going to go
 
My cousin got an escort once. They had her land at a nearby military base and gave her an interview. I think maybe she had to do a 709 but I’m not certain. She said it wasn’t really a big deal. I would consider that a big deal, but I guess they didn’t do anything to intimidate her.
 
Salty said:
My cousin got an escort once. They had her land at a nearby military base and gave her an interview. I think maybe she had to do a 709 but I’m not certain. She said it wasn’t really a big deal. I would consider that a big deal, but I guess they didn’t do anything to intimidate her.
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That's encouraging. Not that I want to bust ima TFR, but good to know they can understand a legitimate accident.
 
I was flying ORD to CAK yesterday and caught most of it on guard. At first it was just Milwaukee approach trying to get the guy to turn away. And then we heard the F35 telling him multiple times that he was being intercepted. The guy apparently had no idea. His ADSB track shows that he proceeded on course straight to OSH without any deviation. Thankfully his track didn’t show him heading towards downtown Milwaukee.
 
snglecoil said:
I was flying ORD to CAK yesterday and caught most of it on guard. At first it was just Milwaukee approach trying to get the guy to turn away. And then we heard the F35 telling him multiple times that he was being intercepted. The guy apparently had no idea. His ADSB track shows that he proceeded on course straight to OSH without any deviation. Thankfully his track didn’t show him heading towards downtown Milwaukee.
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Wait wait wait...
An... F35?
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
Minding my own business flying back from Indiana on guard when I hear a radio call up:

"N5357K, south bend approach on guard, acknowledge"

Then again...

Then I'm at 5500 headed to MI just cruising and the radio is silent for a minute... and then the most commanding voice I think I've ever heard on the radio says:

"YOU ARE BEING INTERCEPTED BY THE UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, ROCK YOUR WINGS TO ACKNOWLEDGE" (along with another command I can't remember).

The radio tx was so freaking clear that I thought they were right next to ME! I instinctively looked out my windows thinking somehow I missed a TFR by South bend...

No turns out it's some guy flying across lake Michigan flew into the RNC TFR. Never heard him respond but it looks like despite being hailed on every approach channel, on guard and then by the USAF he continued on towards OSH...
Click to expand...
They didn't shoot him down? I've read that if you busy a TFR and ignore them they'll totally shoot you down.
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
Minding my own business flying back from Indiana on guard when I hear a radio call up:

"N5357K, south bend approach on guard, acknowledge"

Then again...

Then I'm at 5500 headed to MI just cruising and the radio is silent for a minute... and then the most commanding voice I think I've ever heard on the radio says:

"YOU ARE BEING INTERCEPTED BY THE UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, ROCK YOUR WINGS TO ACKNOWLEDGE" (along with another command I can't remember).

The radio tx was so freaking clear that I thought they were right next to ME! I instinctively looked out my windows thinking somehow I missed a TFR by South bend...

No turns out it's some guy flying across lake Michigan flew into the RNC TFR. Never heard him respond but it looks like despite being hailed on every approach channel, on guard and then by the USAF he continued on towards OSH...
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Which begs the question why there is a TFR for a convention. Sure there is a bunch of elected officials there, but none warrant a TFR.
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
Wait wait wait...
An... F35?
Click to expand...

Correct.

Lindberg said:
They didn't shoot him down? I've read that if you busy a TFR and ignore them they'll totally shoot you down.
Click to expand...

The captain and I thought the same. I think the fact that his path didn’t make a turn towards downtown allowed a little more restraint thankfully.
 
snglecoil said:
The captain and I thought the same. I think the fact that his path didn’t make a turn towards downtown allowed a little more restraint thankfully.
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I was being facetious. No one's getting shot down for just violating a TFR, despite the histrionics often seen online.
 
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A friend of mine dug into it a bit, and found an article with a statement from the guy from 4 years ago, when he was 72.

At 76, I'm guessing that potentially the reason he went to OSH on Wednesday is that he didn't want to have to read and follow complicated written procedures... Doh!

N613SC. https://www.wisn.com/article/norad-...ft-inside-of-rnc-restricted-airspace/61628964

451548669_10159934425485785_2870226738438761341_n.jpg

ArrowFlyer86 said:
Wait wait wait...
An... F35?
Click to expand...

Yes. 115th Fighter Wing out of MSN upgraded from F16s to F35s, so they've become fairly common around here.
 
Sigh... Two more today. https://www.fox6now.com/news/rnc-2024-f-35-intercepts-2-more-aircraft-flying-restricted-airspace

Here was the big ring: https://www.mapdevelopers.com/draw-...6,43.0425,-87.91917,"#C71508","#000000",0.4]]

Super Cub N47XP was REALLY close to the edge... Whether outside or inside I can't quite tell. If I was going to try to get an F35 in formation without actually getting in trouble, I'd do what this guy did! I think his green nav light may have busted the TFR. :rofl: Landed at New Holstein it looks like, no major course corrections.
Skyhawk N3815S looks like a warning was given and course immediately altered, landed at KUNU.
Skyhawk N977SQ took off from Burlington at 2043Z, exited TFR, and landed at KUNU.
Ah, there it is... Navion N5357K flew over the lake, then turned north over Burlington. Weird route. :dunno: Looks like they turned back around and did some sightseeing too... Eventually exited the TFR and flew to Ripon for the OSH arrival.

It seems that at least a couple of the worst offenders made it to Oshkosh before landing. I know an F35 can't literally force someone down without fireworks, but are people this unaware of intercept procedures that they will just keep flying like nothing happened?!? Seems like that would lead to a bad day. I wish I had a recording of guard today.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
A friend of mine dug into it a bit, and found an article with a statement from the guy from 4 years ago, when he was 72.

At 76, I'm guessing that potentially the reason he went to OSH on Wednesday is that he didn't want to have to read and follow complicated written procedures... Doh!

N613SC. https://www.wisn.com/article/norad-...ft-inside-of-rnc-restricted-airspace/61628964

View attachment 131514



Yes. 115th Fighter Wing out of MSN upgraded from F16s to F35s, so they've become fairly common around here.
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That looks like he was trying to stay away but either had an old chart, old database, using a 496 without reading glasses, etc
 
Clip4 said:
Which begs the question why there is a TFR for a convention. Sure there is a bunch of elected officials there, but none warrant a TFR.
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Uh, you do know that one of the attendees was recently targeted, right?
 
Good thing that TFR is over, just in time. Maybe they need a mix of aircraft for the intercept? Something more matched to the 120 kt bugsmasher.


A simple Garmin Pilot or Foreflight subscription would of been better for the pilot, other uses too.

I kinda think the 30 mile TFRs are ‘overkill’, but it’s the world we live in, pilot numbers are rather low.
 
sourdough44 said:
…Maybe they need a mix of aircraft for the intercept? Something more matched to the 120 kt bugsmasher.…
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The internal air defense/TFR enforcement mission is be perfect for an interceptor version of the Super Tucano or AT-6B or even the T-7, when it hits the fleet. Too bad big blue is too myopic to do something practical like that.

The planes are cheap enough you could have more of them stationed more widely and easily serviceable enough they could be a mobile detachment.

This would leave the F-22/F-35 interceptors for things like balloons penetrating the ADIZ.
 
TCABM said:
The internal air defense/TFR enforcement mission is be perfect for an interceptor version of the Super Tucano or AT-6B or even the T-7, when it hits the fleet. Too bad big blue is too myopic to do something practical like that.

The planes are cheap enough you could have more of them stationed more widely and easily serviceable enough they could be a mobile detachment.

This would leave the F-22/F-35 interceptors for things like balloons penetrating the ADIZ.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/1drhb7g/ukrainian_yak52_attempting_to_intercept_russian
 
sourdough44 said:
Maybe they need a mix of aircraft for the intercept? Something more matched to the 120 kt bugsmasher.
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Well, January 2002, a full 3 months after 9/11 the Coast Guard used a helicopter to intercept a 172 over Tampa.
The student pilot just ignored the interceptor and continued with his plan to crash into a high rise building.
So, yea. That worked.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Well, January 2002, a full 3 months after 9/11 the Coast Guard used a helicopter to intercept a 172 over Tampa.
The student pilot just ignored the interceptor and continued with his plan to crash into a high rise building.
So, yea. That worked.
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But what would work? You gonna shoot a missile towards downtown Tampa?
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Well, January 2002, a full 3 months after 9/11 the Coast Guard used a helicopter to intercept a 172 over Tampa.
The student pilot just ignored the interceptor and continued with his plan to crash into a high rise building.
So, yea. That worked.
Click to expand...

It’s not like an F-22 would have made a difference in that outcome.
 
During my first solo flight outside of the pattern - I was meandering about in our practice area, which is west of FDK, and immediately south of Camp David where I need to steer clear of due to its own Prohibited and Restricted areas, and which have TFRs when VIPs are there too, I hear "This is the United States Air Force..." on guard, hailing someone who is busting a TFR and telling them to immediately change course.

As a student flying out of visual range of his home airport solo for the first time, this justifiably sent ice down my spine. After triple-checking my position while listening to the subsequent calls, and reassuring myself that my Leidos briefer didn't miss something obvious an hour ago, I determined that it wasn't for me. Turns out there was a TFR in Delaware for the current president and someone busted that one.

Still, a good wakeup call and interesting story for an early solo flight. No air show for me, that day at least.
 
TCABM said:
The internal air defense/TFR enforcement mission is be perfect for an interceptor version of the Super Tucano or AT-6B or even the T-7, when it hits the fleet. Too bad big blue is too myopic to do something practical like that.

The planes are cheap enough you could have more of them stationed more widely and easily serviceable enough they could be a mobile detachment.

This would leave the F-22/F-35 interceptors for things like balloons penetrating the ADIZ.
Click to expand...

Often National Guard Blackhawk helicopters are used for TFR patrols and intercepts. Fighters can be available for rapid intercepts of a target a helicopter either can't keep up with or can't get to in time.
 
They usually use Coast Guard and other DHS helicopters in the DC SFRA. I don’t expect they are really excited to shoot down a GA plane over a populated area without some really aggressive display of intent.
 
The only thing the tfr does is highlight where the secret service is.... It's not such a secret
 
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Racerx said:
The only thing the tfr does is highlight where the secret service is.... It's not such a secret
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That's not all they do. They also reduce the number of targets that have to be observed and cleared, and provide warning of potential danger.
 
kyleb said:
Buddy of mine reported that someone did that yesterday and was held at the end of the runway after arriving at Osh. They supposedly held him until his friends in the Secret Service arrived.
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Two chubby ladies having hard time getting around ?
 
Wasn't me. My Navion is still in the hangar (we drove to OSH because the weather last week was crappy).
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Obviously not. But people have indeed used an aircraft to commit mayhem. Google it.
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Eh, I’ll direct this back to target. It was stated that no one there warranted a TFR. Your response was that an attendee had recently been targeted. Being targeted doesn’t change the rules.

Maybe they need to prohibit people carrying rifles at political rallies.
 
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Turns out the RV pilot who busted the TFR is a friend of mine. He was using the published arrival procedures in the Oshkosh NOTAM. Unfortunately, the TFR was expanded to be significantly larger than shown in the arrival NOTAM.
 
kyleb said:
Turns out the RV pilot who busted the TFR is a friend of mine. He was using the published arrival procedures in the Oshkosh NOTAM. Unfortunately, the TFR was expanded to be significantly larger than shown in the arrival NOTAM.
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I'm sorry for your friend. When did the TFR change? I hope it was after he departed for KOSH.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Eh, I’ll direct this back to target. It was stated that no one there warranted a TFR. Your response was that an attendee had recently been targeted. Being targeted doesn’t change the rules.

Maybe they need to prohibit people carrying rifles at political rallies.
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Better yet, prohibit assassins from political rallies.
 
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