Some complex time

DFH65

DFH65

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DFH65
First time up in 5.5 months since the plane I usually fly got wrecked by someone. So had to drive 70 miles and rent. The place I was renting from has an arrow for just $15 more an hour than 172 so figured if I was going to be paying regular rental rates might as well work on the complex sign off.

Logged 1.6 and 10 landings. Also first time in forever I have talked to ATC since most of my flying has been low and slow tail dragger time.

Need some thoughts on GUMPS when do you do it? Some of the stuff I saw when I was studying said do it on Downwind, Base and Final. In a fast plane there isn't a ton of time on base to do GUMPS and not just pay lip services to it unless you are flying gigantic patterns. Trying to find a good flow.

Landings were good just have to remember you aren't landing a Cessna.
 
u can't really do GUMPS too much. but I mostly do it on d/wind and final, with one more check of the gear on short final.
 
Pretty much the same as eman; the Xavion app also blabs "Check Gear Down" in my ear as an additional check. Hopefully between that, the gear horn and GUMPS I won't ever miss it, but I've certainly seen videos of people ignoring gear warnings for whatever reason.
 
Exactly what do you mean by "do GUMPS"? I think for most pilots, prelanding checks and confirmations are a process repeated multiple times (especially the gear!), whether via GUMPS or another method.
 
Flows work well

I have a gear check that I do 1 dot above the glide slope, or 3nm from the FAF, or parallel the numbers, another on short final, and another when I'm settling into my landing attitude.

It was amphib ops that really changed my OCD level on gear position, but it carries well over to normal land planes too

So no matter what I'm flying, it's 3 checks before landing.
 
I know some who do the GUMPS1 and GUMPS2. I don't.

Midfield downwind configure for landing. OR if straight in about the same distance. OR if an instrument approach about 3mi to the FAF.

The thing with the gear is, if it's still up you'll have have trouble slowing down to your normal approach speed.

[My experience is with a Cardinal and the nose gear door acts as a significant speed brake]
 
BCCGUMPS.. yeah i just made it more complicated... lol. like @eman1200 stated, downwind and final and another check for the gear... gear the most important.

nevertheless
B boost pump/fuel pump
C carb heat (if available/needed)
C cowl flaps (if available)
G gas
U undercarriage/gear
M mixture
P props
S seatbelts and switches
 
Ravioli said:
I know some who do the GUMPS1 and GUMPS2. I don't.

Midfield downwind configure for landing. OR if straight in about the same distance. OR if an instrument approach about 3mi to the FAF.

The thing with the gear is, if it's still up you'll have have trouble slowing down to your normal approach speed.

[My experience is with a Cardinal and the nose gear door acts as a significant speed brake]
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My philosophy is "Gear down to go down" where "go down" implies leaving the pattern altitude on a VFR flight (or a visual approach) and the first descent after the FAF on an instrument approach. The basis of this concept is that it's difficult to achieve a normal descent rate without closing the throttle completely unless the gear is down closing the throttle usually activates the gear warning horn if the gear isn't down. Using this method also requires that you never extend full and preferably any flaps unless the gear is down and indicating "three green".

As to the GUMPs check, I go with entering the pattern VFR or on the segment preceding the FAF on an approach for the first check. 2nd check occurs shortly after descending below pattern altitude VFR or crossing the FAF IFR. Last check is short final (i.e. over the fence). Checking multiple times makes it less likely you'll forget check at all.

One other tip: When you lower the gear, don't remove your hand from the gear selector until confirming that the extension was successful.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Exactly what do you mean by "do GUMPS"? I think for most pilots, prelanding checks and confirmations are a process repeated multiple times (especially the gear!), whether via GUMPS or another method.
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im also not sure what is meant by doing gumps (although I understand the intent and the acronym).
It should be a flow, (using gumps?) then backed up with a checklist. If this is followed there is no need to “repeat gumps multiple times”.
 
I was never taught "GUMPS", I was taught to develop a flow and I still work that. And I should say the flow will include the same items as the GUMP. Then follow with a checklist.


gismo said:
One other tip: When you lower the gear, don't remove your hand from the gear selector until confirming that the extension was successful.
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I do the same thing. I check gear 3 times before landing, IFR or VFR. I keep my hand on the gear until I see the lights I need to see, then put my finger on the gear selector each time I check the gear. Just a habit I was taught the first time I flew a retract and it works for me. Sort of like closing the door of my truck before I start driving..
 
Gear
Undercarriage
Main wheels
Put 'em down
Stupid

Works great.

Beyond learning a new skill you'll find the arrow etc to be available on nice days when all the 172s are gone. And with a higher cruise speed you'll find it's cheaper you rent for a given trip by a few bucks
 
Kritchlow said:
im also not sure what is meant by doing gumps (although I understand the intent and the acronym).
It should be a flow, (using gumps?) then backed up with a checklist. If this is followed there is no need to “repeat gumps multiple times”.
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Well, I actually don't use GUMPS, also preferring a flow/checklist combination. But "gear down," does appear multiple times in the form of briefing, the act of putting it down, and post-deployment confirmations.

My only real advice on gear down to @DFH65 (and anyone else) is to find a good methodology that works and stick with it. Make it so consistent an SOP that it becomes a habit. Nothing is perfect, but habits are hard to break, decreasing the likelihood of an error. The closest I ever came to a gear up was when I tried to change the one I had been using.
 
gismo said:
My philosophy is "Gear down to go down" where "go down" implies leaving the pattern altitude on a VFR flight (or a visual approach) and the first descent after the FAF on an instrument approach. The basis of this concept is that it's difficult to achieve a normal descent rate without closing the throttle completely unless the gear is down closing the throttle usually activates the gear warning horn if the gear isn't down. Using this method also requires that you never extend full and preferably any flaps unless the gear is down and indicating "three green".

As to the GUMPs check, I go with entering the pattern VFR or on the segment preceding the FAF on an approach for the first check. 2nd check occurs shortly after descending below pattern altitude VFR or crossing the FAF IFR. Last check is short final (i.e. over the fence). Checking multiple times makes it less likely you'll forget check at all.

One other tip: When you lower the gear, don't remove your hand from the gear selector until confirming that the extension was successful.
Click to expand...

This works for me, too, except for the part about no flaps. I enter the pattern at 90 mph, or an approach at 90 knots = 105 mph, both with Takeoff flaps. Dropping gear starts my descent, either abeam my intended point of landing (with a slight reduction in throttle) or 1-1/2 dots above the glideslope / at FAF. The plane handles so much better at these low speeds with some flaps out.
 
Thanks some helpful tips here. Having only flown the J5 for the last year and a half stepping into the Arrow and dealing with ATC gave me few more things to keep track of. :)
 
midlifeflyer said:
......My only real advice on gear down to @DFH65 (and anyone else) is to find a good methodology that works and stick with it. Make it so consistent an SOP that it becomes a habit. Nothing is perfect, but habits are hard to break, decreasing the likelihood of an error....
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So, kind of like this GUMPS process that you claim to have no idea what it is and claim not to use? I’m confused.
 
gismo said:
My philosophy is "Gear down to go down" where "go down" implies leaving the pattern altitude on a VFR flight (or a visual approach) and the first descent after the FAF on an instrument approach.
Click to expand...

Hank S said:
This works for me, too, except for the part about no flaps. I enter the pattern at 90 mph, or an approach at 90 knots = 105 mph, both with Takeoff flaps. Dropping gear starts my descent, either abeam my intended point of landing (with a slight reduction in throttle) or 1-1/2 dots above the glideslope / at FAF. The plane handles so much better at these low speeds with some flaps out.
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I fly downwind clean at 90kts, abeam the numbers it's gear down, half flaps, and power back to 11", in that order. After I get the gear down light I check the mechanical indicator between the seats. I then check again twice on final, once when rolling from base to final, then again at short final. Straight in these same things happen ~3mi from the runway. On an instrument approach, it's 90kts and clean to the FAF, then gear down and half flaps with no power change. I've found she'll go right down the GS at 90kts with little need to touch either power or pitch.

EDIT: Lance, good to see you post!
 
eman1200 said:
So, kind of like this GUMPS process that you claim to have no idea what it is and claim not to use? I’m confused.
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I guess so :)

I asked what he meant about "doing" GUMPS since it can be done in different ways and at multiple points along the way.

I said do not personally use the GUMPS acronym. Never said I didn't know the acronym or don't do a before landing check.
 
I'm with @eman1200 in that I don't think you can do it too much. I know I usually do it at least twice at varying points. If VFR in the "normal" pattern, it will happen on downwind and again on either base/final or both. On an IFR approach it will happen as I join the final approach and again at the FAF/GS intercept and maybe again on short final. My feeling is that if you only do it once at a very specific point and something out of the ordinary distracts you (i.e. a radio problem, ATC pointing out traffic, a passenger distracting you, etc.) it could increase your likely hood of missing something important.

My reasoning:
A) I'm single pilot
B) I want to increase my chances of never landing gear up
C) Different parts of GUMPS happens at different times in my plane.
-G: I verify the fuel is on the mains prior to pattern entry or turning in on the final approach course. The fuel pumps will go on low on downwind or when joining the final.
-U: The gear can't come down till I get below 160 and won't happen (usually) until abeam the number or just prior to GS intercept.
-M: I personally don't ever go full rich while landing (understand those that do and why they choose that, to each their own) but will need to bump them up as I continue descending a bit.
-P: I personally don't go props full forward normally (again understand that some do) but may increase them a bit during descent if I want their help.
-S: Switches. My landing lights can't be extended from under the wing until I'm below 160 but can be used independent of gear/act like mini speed brakes. Also, my Yaw Damper which depending on my mood may come off early or later depending but for sure before landing.

This flow, while may bother some, works really well for me and developing what works best for you is the most important thing.
 
GUMPS:
G Check the GEAR

U Undercarriage check

M MAKE sure the gear is down

P PUT your hand on the gear switch

S Make SURE the gear is down







The straight answer to the question asked, when to to GUMPS, is the same in a complex aircraft as a non complex one, on downwind. I usually have my gear and flaps out before I hit the landing pattern, GUMPS check on downwind.
 
Flow then back it up with a checklist. Tough to go wrong with that.
 
I am a big proponent of (in the Arrow) of "three green, no red, prop full, mixture set for the go around, flaps" on downwind, base and final. this doesn't preclude your GUMPS check prior to entering the pattern. It is how I train my commercial students because just like Tony Stark said: "That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty good so far."
 
Also am I correct in thinking I can log that as PIC time with the instructor even though I don't have the sign off as I was sole manipulator? The instructor wasn't sure. I noticed in my log book when I did my TW time the instructor didn't put me as PIC either which I think I could have logged PIC for that as well.
 
Yes, if you are certificated ASEL pilot.
 
you should be able to log the time as PIC. gear is easy to remember after your first gear up landing.
 
DFH65 said:
Thanks some helpful tips here. Having only flown the J5 for the last year and a half stepping into the Arrow and dealing with ATC gave me few more things to keep track of. :)
Click to expand...
Glides like a man hole cover too. Real eye opener
 
aftCG said:
Glides like a man hole cover too. Real eye opener
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Yeah this one is a 1969 so has the old style wings I believe. If you have full flaps, gear down and pull the power it is time to auto-rotate cuz your landing spot is directly below you. :)
 
Landing Fees said:
I am a big proponent of (in the Arrow) of "three green, no red, prop full, mixture set for the go around, flaps" on downwind, base and final. this doesn't preclude your GUMPS check prior to entering the pattern. It is how I train my commercial students because just like Tony Stark said: "That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty good so far."
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Not quite sure how you do the "U" in GUMPS having the gear stowed.
 
steingar said:
Not quite sure how you do the "U" in GUMPS having the gear stowed.
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We don't always leave the pattern. Perhaps always a good idea to do a GUMPS check prior to landing and for our stiff legged friends U doesn't have much meaning, except for perhaps checking U-nderwear.
 
Abeam the numbers in VMC / pattern flying. A mile or so prior to the final approach fix on an instrument approach.
 
Kritchlow said:
Gear is easy to remember in a big airplane. You’ll wonder why you are 40 kts fast and can’t slow down on final.
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"Bitching Betty" will holla at ya too! And if that doesn't get your attention, GPWS should.
 
P
mscard88 said:
"Bitching Betty" will holla at ya too! And if that doesn't get your attention, GPWS should.
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the Bus doesn’t have a bitchin Betty. It’s an old POS plane.
 
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