Sold car now police knocking at my door

1600vw said:
My son did not get any paper work, he just signed the title and handed it to the new owner. He has learned a lot from this.
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DOH! He's prolly screwed. His word against theirs, and lets hope he got the money in a large amount and can show a deposit of that money. That's the only way he'll get out from under. Nothing wrong with a cash transaction, but you need to show the cash coming in, and going to the bank. He'll also need to sign a statement of fact at the DMV that he sold it, didn't get a BOS, and can't provide any transaction details. Depends on how the DMV clerk is feeling that day.
 
North TX toll don't seem to care what evidence you present on sale. We just got another bill today on the car we reported sold last Feb. No one answers the phone, and there is no dispute office, just places you can go to buy a toll tag. It's all about the money, and collection. The good news with the tolls I heard recently is that they are out about $23 million in unpaid collections.
 
I did a quick look on the IL DMV site. Here's a document that he might want to look at:

http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/pdf_publications/vsd703.pdf

Best thing to do might be to contact a lawyer. I don't know how many tickets, and what they are for, but it sounds like they are in your son's name. If that vehicle is in an accident, will there be any liablity to him if it's still in his name?
 
docmirror said:
North TX toll don't seem to care what evidence you present on sale. We just got another bill today on the car we reported sold last Feb. No one answers the phone, and there is no dispute office, just places you can go to buy a toll tag. It's all about the money, and collection. The good news with the tolls I heard recently is that they are out about $23 million in unpaid collections.
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Dispute Dispute Dispute! In writing!

Or you'll eat it.
 
1600vw said:
My son sold a car. He did not remove the license plates from the car. They are expired for this car sat a long time. But he forgot to remove the plates.

Now he is getting tickets through the mail from the chicago area. He called the police and reported he sold the car but they could careless.

He is taking care of this through the DMV today, paying the fines and reporting the plates not active or something like this, he told me some paperwork must be filled out.

The kid who purchased this car is in school in the Chicago area. My son would have to go to cook county to deal with this, any other way he can do this? He works m-f, 7-5.

Also what should he do? I think this kid owes my son some money. I told my son maybe this jerk will get pulled over and arrested for driving on expired and the car is not registered to him.

Tony
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Have your attorney deal with this.
 
SCCutler said:
Dispute Dispute Dispute! In writing!

Or you'll eat it.
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Already done 3 times. Back in Feb, again in Aug, and will do again. They don't care, just send more bills.
 
SCCutler said:
If the state provides an easy means of reporting a sale, that may burn him.
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not only is there an easy way (a tear-off portion of the title) it's a legal requirement to send it in in a certain number of days. If that was not done then the seller probably has no argument to get out of the tickets.
 
Matthew said:
I did a quick look on the IL DMV site. Here's a document that he might want to look at:

http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/pdf_publications/vsd703.pdf

Best thing to do might be to contact a lawyer. I don't know how many tickets, and what they are for, but it sounds like they are in your son's name. If that vehicle is in an accident, will there be any liablity to him if it's still in his name?
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Again I am very grateful for all the comments.

This is the document my son showed me this morning.

The tickets are for running red lights. I believe three so far. My son works every week day. I wonder if his Boss could help by telling the powers to be he was at work when these happened and over 4 hrs away.

Tony
 
1600vw said:
Again I am very grateful for all the comments.

This is the document my son showed me this morning.

The tickets are for running red lights. I believe three so far. My son works every week day. I wonder if his Boss could help by telling the powers to be he was at work when these happened and over 4 hrs away.

Tony
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They must have been on red-light cameras. Otherwise, the cop would have noted the expired tags and the driver would have some 'splaining to do.

I don't know if those count as a moving violation or not, but it wasn't him, and with enough of those tickets, even if paid, there might be the potential for some serious repercussions. If it were me, I'd really be considering an attorney at this point.
 
1600vw said:
Again I am very grateful for all the comments.

This is the document my son showed me this morning.

The tickets are for running red lights. I believe three so far. My son works every week day. I wonder if his Boss could help by telling the powers to be he was at work when these happened and over 4 hrs away.

Tony
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These are for points-bearing moving violations and not just nuisance parking tickets?

Definitely call a lawyer.
 
docmirror said:
Already done 3 times. Back in Feb, again in Aug, and will do again. They don't care, just send more bills.
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Who did he dispute it before? A judge? That's who he needs to go see at this point, a judge or justice of the peace. That's their job, to serve as intermediaries to the constituencies whether it be between constituents or constituents and the government.

If you use the system as it was designed to be used, everything goes quite simply. A lawyer (available at the neighborhood ticket clinic) can deal with it and make it disappear for a handling fee and some costs, but if your son is reasonably sharp, polite, and personable, he will be able to see the clerk of the court to get him to, or an appointment with, the judge. The judge will settle the matter and everything stops.
 
http://www.dmv.org/tx-texas/title-transfers.php#Selling-a-Vehicle


I never trust any buyer to do the right thing, so I fill out and file a vehicle transfer notification on the day of the sale, and that indemnifies me from then on .. but I like the idea of removing the plates and I would still file even better.

When the State see's you filed one, all the creditors get the shaft I guess, or have to go after the next guy in line. Either way, it's off my plate.

I fill them out religiously on a private sale. I've never had one come back on me. :)
 
SomeTexan said:
If you have already paid the cops, report the car stolen. Cops are trash, so they won't ever give your money back. Never, ever hand over money to the legal system unless you are guilty. All you need is a signed statement by friends that says you sold the car on whatever date. Then the police should go after the new owner. But, since all cops are lazy trash, they will go after whoever is the most likely to give them money.

I had a similar situation where I traded in a truck, but the dealership was running toll roads multiple times a day, every day for over a year with it. All I had to do was fax in the sales receipts, and the fines were off my record. A year later it happens again, so I reported it stolen. 2 days later, I was getting threats from the dealership. After meeting with lawyers, the dealer found out they were liable for so many fines, it was cheaper/easier for the owner to let his son rot in jail for grand theft auto. And I got the truck back, as well as a Viper to keep me from going after them for fraud.
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Truer words never spoken.
 
Henning said:
Who did he dispute it before? A judge? That's who he needs to go see at this point, a judge or justice of the peace. That's their job, to serve as intermediaries to the constituencies whether it be between constituents or constituents and the government.

If you use the system as it was designed to be used, everything goes quite simply. A lawyer (available at the neighborhood ticket clinic) can deal with it and make it disappear for a handling fee and some costs, but if your son is reasonably sharp, polite, and personable, he will be able to see the clerk of the court to get him to, or an appointment with, the judge. The judge will settle the matter and everything stops.
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Well, that would involve us as ex-owners of the car to sue the toll agency. Let's see here. We are out zero dollar so far because we didn't pay. We haven't had any trouble registering our other cars, or getting a new car titled in my name. We haven't had any out of pocket costs except some postage to mail the proof of sale to the toll agency twice now. Total 'damages' are about $1.15 plus a half hour of time. How am I going to get this in front of a judge?

One can sue for specific performance, or ask a county court for a bench order, but in most states that's not done in small claims, you have to go to muni or county court. So, I pay the filing fee for the court in question of about $60, and then I pay another $79 for legal service to the toll agency, then they show up, and I show up, and without a lawyer, I'm pro-per, which isn't a problem really but sure as hell the toll agency is going to have a lawyer. Chances of winning a 'cease and desist' order against the toll agency? I give it a 1 in 1000.
 
Hang on, who is sending the fine, and who is threatening what punitive action? I was under the impression that he was getting tickets from a state authority for busting tolls? Am I mistaken in this? From the last I am now under the impression that this is a private authority sending a "Toll By Plate" statement. Is this correct?

If so what is the consequence of telling them "**** off, I'm not paying?" Is it restricted to a credit rating hit, or civil collection, or can one go to jail for it? Can they suspend one's drivers license?

If you can go to jail for it, then what I said before I stand by, go to the clerk and get in front of the judge.

If not, yeah, that changes things a lot. You have the process stopped right? Either pay the rest off or take the credit hit if they report it when he refuses. That's about all the options he has. He ****ed up and didn't pull his plates, well, he has to own the consequences of that. He shouldn't go to jail for it, and wouldn't, but it will cost him some money or hassle. Hopefully he will be more diligent in his dealings in the future.
 
Henning said:
Hang on, who is sending the fine, and who is threatening what punitive action? I was under the impression that he was getting tickets from a state authority for busting tolls? Am I mistaken in this? From the last I am now under the impression that this is a private authority sending a "Toll By Plate" statement. Is this correct?

If so what is the consequence of telling them "**** off, I'm not paying?" Is it restricted to a credit rating hit, or civil collection, or can one go to jail for it? Can they suspend one's drivers license?

If you can go to jail for it, then what I said before I stand by, go to the clerk and get in front of the judge.

If not, yeah, that changes things a lot. You have the process stopped right? Either pay the rest off or take the credit hit if they report it when he refuses. That's about all the options he has. He ****ed up and didn't pull his plates, well, he has to own the consequences of that. He shouldn't go to jail for it, and wouldn't, but it will cost him some money or hassle. Hopefully he will be more diligent in his dealings in the future.
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You're confusing the OP with my situation. I sold car, got buyers info, and sent in the notice to the DMV of reported sale. Buyer left plates on car, went on several toll roads, toll agency sent me bills. I did not pay, and sent toll agency the proof of sale. They don't care and still send collection bills to me. I send proof of sale again, and they send bills.
 
jesse said:
Minnesota as well. The nice thing in Minnesota is the title has a tear-off portion that the seller mails in to the state to inform the state the vehicle was sold. If the buyer does not register/report their purchase then the state gets all over their ass.
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It is even better now in MN you can go online and enter you sold the car and to who. When I bought the my last car the guy I bought it from did it in front of me and said I better transfer the title now.

Or you do like my brother in law. You give him the money he gives you the tittle only. Bring back proof that you transferred it he will give you keys.
And yes he does that to family too. :D

Me I drive them until they go to the scrap/recycling/junkyard (what ever you want to call it)
 
Hmm. This whole thread seems to be a lesson in "Google how to sell a car in X State" before selling a car, or deal with the self-induced headaches.

In Colorado, the State kindly provides a PDF bill of sale, notice of odometer reading, and all the stuff necessary on a single web page that took less time than reading this thread to find. If you follow the instructions, the scenarios presented simply can't happen.

You remove plates, period. New owner is responsible for temp tag. Car can be driven with bill of sale to their place to park it. It's really a zero-brain-cells required process.

I'm curious if the OP's home State has a similar web page and if the son has been shown how to find it for future reference. :)
 
docmirror said:
You're confusing the OP with my situation. I sold car, got buyers info, and sent in the notice to the DMV of reported sale. Buyer left plates on car, went on several toll roads, toll agency sent me bills. I did not pay, and sent toll agency the proof of sale. They don't care and still send collection bills to me. I send proof of sale again, and they send bills.
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Did you complete this form?:

https://vision21.txdmv.gov/Vehicle/MainTransferNotification.aspx

Have you updated your tolltag account so that license plate is no longer registered to your account? I learned from a similar experience that the tolltag only gets read a fraction of the time and the rest of the time they go off the plates. And if a plate is registered to a toll tag account, they charge that account instead of the legal owner of the car.

If you've done that and it hasn't taken, call your state rep. I assure you he's got someone in his office who lives for this stuff and will get it taken care of.

http://www.fyi.legis.state.tx.us/Home.aspx

I've gone through this twice (you'd think I'd learn) and the cities writing red-light and parking tickets were easy to deal with. The NTTA was a slight pain in the rear.
 
1600vw said:
...The kid is in school in Chicago. We live in Springfield a good 4 hr drive away. This kids parents live in Springfield. He wants to go over and yell at them, I told him he would be yelling at the wrong people. But it would be a good idea to go talk with them, but keep your cool is what I told him...
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Chicago isn't 4 hours from him... Decatur is right next door, and he can fly Air Choice One and be in Chicago in 1.5hrs. We have 3 DEC-ORD every weekday, 1 on Saturdays, and 2 on Sundays. Up and back for about a hundred bucks...
 
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HighFlyingA380 said:
Chicago isn't 4 hours from him... Decatur is right next door, and he can fly Air Choice One and be in Chicago in 1.5hrs. We have 3 DEC-ORD every weekday, 1 on Saturdays, and 2 on Sundays. Up and back for about a hundred bucks...
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that would be stupid. what does going to o'hare get him? he'd be better off taking amtrak if he doesn't have a car
 
Update:

My son went to these peoples house. In the back yard sat the Camaro. It has not moved since he sold it.

My son calls Cook County again. This time he speaks with someone who helps him after he tells this person this car is still sitting with a locked up engine and has not ran in over a year. The man puts him on hold. When he comes back he said the number on the plate match his but this was a truck plate not a car plate. I can not remember what the letters running down the side are, I believe TP or something. But this man said he see's this is a truck plate. He then said he took care of this in the computer and its not a problem now.
I told my son I would call back today and double check that this was done. Is there anything else he should do?
I heard things like this was happening in cook county, I just never thought it would effect my family here in Springfield. We never go to Chicago, its been years.

Tony
 
Excellent!
 
The guy said he fixed the tag info so it wouldn't be a problem anymore. What about the tickets?
 
denverpilot said:
You remove plates, period. New owner is responsible for temp tag. Car can be driven with bill of sale to their place to park it. It's really a zero-brain-cells required process.
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Not really. In Texas, the plates are good for either 7 or 10 years, and stay with the car. It is an extra couple hundred bucks if the plates are less than 7-10 years old and gone. It is less if you bring the old plates in and want a new number, but still an extra charge. If I'm buying a driving, registered car, no plates means no sale. Went through it buying a beater for my grilfriend's son. Seller didnt want to let the plates go with the car, wasn't part of the deal until after I paid, so I wouldn't let him take them. He called the cops, they said plates are registered to the car, and stay with it until new ones are issued. If he didn't want to let the plates go with it, he would have to re-register it as non-operational and turn the plates in at that time. Otherwise, by state law, they stay with car.
 
Lindberg said:
Did you complete this form?:

https://vision21.txdmv.gov/Vehicle/MainTransferNotification.aspx

Have you updated your tolltag account so that license plate is no longer registered to your account?
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Yes, filled it out online, sadly, no printed record of the transaction.

What makes you think I have a tolltag account? The NTTA just sends the bill to the last registered owner notwithstanding the operator of the car, may not be the owner. Which is where the whole process breaks down, and NTTA can't give a wet, dribbly, spit about your reasons for not paying.
 
docmirror said:
I can only speak for TX, but the agencies don't care. It's just about collections, not justification. We sold a car, and did the right paperwork, and the buyer drove on the north TX toll road every day. The key is to have all the correct info on the sale. Name, addr, date, and driver license number of buyer.

We continue to get bills from them every month, even though we've filled out the section on the bill for 'vehicle transferred, destroyed, or incorrect plate info'. We still get bills every month. In TX the plate stays on the sold car in private transactions. They don't care about a bill of sale, or anything else, they just want to collect. We say no.
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You can keep your plate if you want. There's a form the buyer can print and use as a temp tag to drive down to the tax assessor's office to get his registration if you choose to keep the plate.

https://vision21.txdmv.gov/Vehicle/VehicleLookupForPermit.aspx
 
docmirror said:
Yes, filled it out online, sadly, no printed record of the transaction.

What makes you think I have a tolltag account? The NTTA just sends the bill to the last registered owner notwithstanding the operator of the car, may not be the owner. Which is where the whole process breaks down, and NTTA can't give a wet, dribbly, spit about your reasons for not paying.
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I assume everyone has a tolltag since they're free and save you money on tolls. But your state rep's constituent office can still help you and would be happy to do it.
 
mkosmo said:
You can keep your plate if you want. There's a form the buyer can print and use as a temp tag to drive down to the tax assessor's office to get his registration if you choose to keep the plate.

https://vision21.txdmv.gov/Vehicle/VehicleLookupForPermit.aspx
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Thank you. I didn't know this existed. In TX all the prev times I have left the plate on the car. Now I know I can tell the buyer to print a transit permit to move the vehicle. So, we have a solution to the toll tag problem now. Next car sale, I'll take the plates and have the buyer fill out the transit permit. I might even let them use my printer.
 
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docmirror said:
Thank you. I didn't know this existed. In TX all the prev times I have left the plate on the car. Now I know I can tell the buyer to print a transit permit to move the vehicle. So, we have a solution to the toll tag problem now. Next car sale, I'll take the plates and have the buyer fill out the transit permit. I might even let them use my printer.
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In states where tags don't go with the car, I have never had problems driving to the tag office with no plates. I've been pulled over for it a few times , told them I just bought it and was on the way to the tag office, showed them the paperwork on the seat, and they were all cool with it, no worries.
 
KRyan said:
If he knew where the kid lived, your son could go there after he gets off work and steal the plates. That would solve the problem!
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thats what i would do but, i don't always make good decisions!
 
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