SoCal (SBA) to Chi trip VFR?

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warthog1984

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Now that I'm midway through flight training (phase check this weekend, solo Monday, Dual X-Cs next weekend), I'm starting to look at traveling.

For the experienced travelers, would going from either SBA or Palmdale through to Chicago and back be an expected straight-thru/on-timeish VFR trip in winter (Nov/Dec)?

I'd be looking to do it in 1-2 days if possible, launching at/near dawn. Plane would be a 172SP or 182RG with extended tanks.

Yes, I'm looking at alternatives to the airlines.
 
In a 172, about 15 hours of flight time. One possible route:
KPMD-KDAG-KEED-KPRC-KGUP-KSAF-TAFOY-KDHT-KHUT-KIXD-somewhere near Chicago such as DuPage (KDPA). Note this may not be the best route for cheap fuel, but a reasonably straight route that can be done at 9500 MSL and keeps you out of MOA, Restricted,etc. Area between Gallup and just east of Sante Fe is the highest altitude. In fact once you get to Tafoy, you can drop down to 7500.

With the 182, probably about 13 hrs flight time.

Cost for the 172 at 9 gph. and average fuel price is $5.50. So one-way is almost $750, round trip about $1500.

Right now, round trip on United or American is $320. First class is $1388.
 
Yeah, I know it's not the cheapest way to get there, by far.

OTOH:
1) I could bring my dog back home for the first time in years (and yes, he's fine with claiming the backseat in a Cessna).
2) I'd get to fly myself back home across country.
3) No TSA

Main concern is weather and if VFR-only pilot could expect straight-enough flyable weather most days. I recall a lot of trips to S. IL that got cancelled due to clouds in college, but wonder if a 182 may be able to climb over most of the "annoyance" clouds that a 172 w/o oxygen can't.
 
What are annoyance clouds,and how do you get down if they close up?
 
KeithASanford said:
Yeah, and is that even allowed as a VFR Pilot?
Click to expand...

Annoyance clouds: flying CAVU to CAVU except a thin band of low/medium clouds in the middle and stretching across most of the state.

A flight-scratcher for an early 172, maybe not for a 182 with O2 and full tanks?

Thinking of VFR-over-the-top if it's under 10-12k.
 
I'm thinking this is like lunch at Commander's Palace, from KPIA, in a C150.....you can do it but it's not worth it.
 
bbchien said:
I'm thinking this is like lunch at Commander's Palace, from KPIA, in a C150.....you can do it but it's not worth it.
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Just curious: why would you consider the trip "not worth it"? Other than $?

Door-to-door time in 182rg is about the same as airlines if no big reroutes / wx holds, build XC time before IR, better haulage, and I'd have 1-2 weeks on the ground in between out/back.

Mainly concerned about WX after getting past UT/AZ
 
Plan 3 days each way, yes it is doable in 2. Then add a couple of extra days for weather, each direction.

Weather systems move through quicker in the winter.
 
Thanks BillTIZ.

To clarify, this would be after my PPL and probably in the 'Lane retract (yes, I can get one as a low time pilot).

I know weather is a factor, but am hoping the extended-range tanks and 140+ cruise will get me reliably over/past the majority of local bad weather en route.

Just wanted to make sure 2 days was doable with weather, although I'll def build in extra time and not push myself just to make schedule.
 
The day after I got my PP I flew from Long Beach to St Louis, but that was summer. Winter it's not impossible, but the you may have to wait for a weather window. Flying as a low time VFR pilot on long cross countries cannot be done on a strict calendar schedule, and you also have to make consideration for equipment failures. On that trip I lost both of my NAV radios over the Grand Canyon a couple hours into the trip in an ArrowII. I called ATC and told them that I would continue on pilotage, but would appreciate a call if it looked like I was going to bust airspace. They asked if I would like vectors, I said "sure", they gave me vectors all the way including my 2 fuel stops where they told me to keep my squawk and call when airborne. That was over 20 years ago and I have been having fun flying back and forth across the country since. I always stay VFR on my own flights and always make it. Never on the exact routing I planned (typically due to weather diversions), often I'll set down short of a particularly nasty line and wait for the weather to pass (works west bound, not east) and sometime having to make mechanical repairs along the way. Don't get me wrong, I encourage you to do it, just set yourself up with time to spare and be accepting of changes to your plan. You will learn more about flying on that trip than you will have in your previous training. Be prepared for anything to happen, and be ready to deal with it, that's what flying is all about, and to me what has kept it fun for over 20 years.
 
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warthog1984 said:
Just curious: why would you consider the trip "not worth it"? Other than $?

Door-to-door time in 182rg is about the same as airlines if no big reroutes / wx holds, build XC time before IR, better haulage, and I'd have 1-2 weeks on the ground in between out/back.

Mainly concerned about WX after getting past UT/AZ
Click to expand...
Right after 9/11 all the CFI-Is had gone to work for the airlines. A 17 y.o from a neighboring town came to my drome for IR lessons, in a C150 that the family had bought for his use.

When you are 17, you learn FAST. At 35 hours I had all three columns on my clipboard ("shown the maneuver", "done the maneuver", "ready for the DPE" checked. Thirty FIVE.

"Max, what do you want to do for the remaining 5 hours?"
"Eat lunch at Commanders' Palace".

So we did. It was the lonnnngest, least comfortable, totally sweated out day in aviation that I can recall. Over 14 hours away (I think 16). About 650 nm IIRC.

BTW, he passed his ride the following weekend.

*******
With only a solo pilot, not too big, in the 150, the trip is "Do-able" on the I-40 route. Not sure about the "on-time-ish" part, though. Just, "why?"
 
bbchien said:
*******
With only a solo pilot, not too big, in the 150, the trip is "Do-able" on the I-40 route. Not sure about the "on-time-ish" part, though. Just, "why?"
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Ahh...

Pretty much 3 reasons:
1) Bring the dog back to see folks for first time in years
2) Because I can
3) Stories

As for "on-timeish", not really looking for a specific time schedule, but don't want to be fighting diversions and delays for a week straight.
 
murphey said:
Cost for the 172 at 9 gph. and average fuel price is $5.50. So one-way is almost $750, round trip about $1500.

Right now, round trip on United or American is $320. First class is $1388.
Click to expand...

The experience, adventure, spending time with your plane, is priceless.
 
Commander's Palace---$90 special for the sample Passover dinner. Appears Kosher, too.

Duck & Matzo ball soup: "poached matzo ball dumplings..."

Hm....8+ hours each way...
 
So I guess I need to google or bing.
Where is Commanders Palace?
 
warthog1984 said:
Just wanted to make sure 2 days was doable with weather, although I'll def build in extra time and not push myself just to make schedule.
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Good thinking. It's all about the journey, not the destination, so take your time and enjoy.

My transcontinental journey in my Tiger last month (Salisbury MD to Arlington WA and return) involved a late afternoon departure on Day 1, then three nights en route, and arrival about 11 am on Day 4 -- eight legs total. The return trip was a weather-delayed noon departure on Day 1, two nights en route, and arrival home about 4 pm on Day 3 -- six legs. Four of the fourteen legs needed some IFR operation due to weather.
 
warthog1984 said:
Ahh...

Pretty much 3 reasons:
1) Bring the dog back to see folks for first time in years
2) Because I can
3) Stories

As for "on-timeish", not really looking for a specific time schedule, but don't want to be fighting diversions and delays for a week straight.
Click to expand...
Well then DO IT :) :) :)

In a C150, you basically fly I-40. If the weather sucks, you stop for the day. November is okay, December no so much. The weather patter over the central country is fronts every 3 days. Eastbound, you ride with the NW wind and make 125 -130 knots.

Westbound, it's an 80 knot slog, and when the front comes though you take a motel and wait for it to pass. You're going VFR, so if there are ice clouds you won't be in 'em anyway.
 
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A kid in FL posted a similar question a few years back, don't remember which forum. He was finishing PPL, worked for the flight school and had "a deal" for renting the plane. Similar time estimates, etc., and in spite of some admonitions from others thought he had it all figured out.

Bottom line is that he survived (somewhat miraculously) but was over his head and literally in the clouds sans clearance for much of the trip, which took about 40% more time than he planned. He later admitted that he was nowhere near ready for such a trip and should have built some time and actual experience by flying other shorter trips before tackling the big one.

If you decide you want to do it, sign a blood oath that you'll plan the trip the way you should fly it and then fly it the way you planned it. If anything changes, or even looks like it might change, get yourself on the ground. If you said you were planning to do it in October I'd be much more comfortable with the weather scenario, and would probably can it if you can't get it done by the end of November.
 
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