So, what happened to Thomas Jefferson?

John Baker

John Baker

Final Approach
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
7,471
Location
San Diego, California
Display Name
Display name:
John Baker
I posted some of his quotes on the Hanger Talk forum a few hours ago. Now it is gone, what happened?

Hangar Talk Open forum for discussion of any topic you like, aviation related or otherwise. Virtually all topics in this forum are permitted - so long as they are discussed in a civil manner.

John
 
Well, I saw the thread and figured it would get moved to Spin Zone inside a couple of hours. Looks like I was right. Wasn't Thomas Jefferson known for being, among other things, a POLITICAL figure?

Spin Zone Participant Members of this group choose voluntarily to engage in discussions which occur in the Spin Zone. These discussions can be of a highly charged nature, and often involve topics such as politics and religion. ROC enforcement remains in effect!
Click to expand...
 
If they are gone to the spin zone, don't go over there looking for them. It will be one of the low points of your aviation experience.

John Baker said:
I posted some of his quotes on the Hanger Talk forum a few hours ago. Now it is gone, what happened?

Hangar Talk Open forum for discussion of any topic you like, aviation related or otherwise. Virtually all topics in this forum are permitted - so long as they are discussed in a civil manner.

John
Click to expand...
 
John Baker said:
I posted some of his quotes on the Hanger Talk forum a few hours ago. Now it is gone, what happened?

Hangar Talk Open forum for discussion of any topic you like, aviation related or otherwise. Virtually all topics in this forum are permitted - so long as they are discussed in a civil manner.

John
Click to expand...

Pretty much anything even vaguely political is best kept in Spin Zone. You would be amazed at the kind of things that can provoke a heated discussion.

For example, you would think the sky is blue...........:D

Your post wasn't deleted, it was moved to SZ.
 
flyersfan31 said:
Pretty much anything even vaguely political is best kept in Spin Zone. You would be amazed at the kind of things that can provoke a heated discussion.

For example, you would think the sky is blue...........:D
Click to expand...
John that type of post should be in the SZ. While some people think I am the culprit of posting all kinds of political stuff not in the SZ I have never had a post moved and try to identify those posts that are political to put them where they are. People on this board want politcal discussion segrateed and fenced off from the rest of the baord. I agree with them.

Your post was moved to the SZ last night soon after it was posted on Hangar Talk by the MC.
 
Last edited:
There are apparently folks who can post all sorts of political stuff and get away with it, not only by not having it moved to the SZ, but also in not, apparently, ever hearing a word about it. Others of us aren't so blessed. To those of us in the latter category, or those of us who are simply tired of it all in an aviation forum, it's gotten very tiresome, especially since the blessed appear to be all on the leftward end of the spectrum.
 
jmaynard said:
There are apparently folks who can post all sorts of political stuff and get away with it, not only by not having it moved to the SZ, but also in not, apparently, ever hearing a word about it. Others of us aren't so blessed. To those of us in the latter category, or those of us who are simply tired of it all in an aviation forum, it's gotten very tiresome, especially since the blessed appear to be all on the leftward end of the spectrum.
Click to expand...
Do you have some examples of that Jay? You have made this claim several times now and I have yet to see you back it up with any kind of example.

The MC is pretty quick to pull the trigger on a lot of political posts. Although I think that they sometime err on a few posts that are local politics that should be moved and are not. The one about the building codes being the one that I feel does not belong in HT but in SZ. That thread has gotten very ugly several times now and has no aviation content whatsoever. Furthermore, it is all about the application of policy and the definition of policy application is politics. It would seem that sometimes the MC only think politics is when you mention a name.

Prior to the election a lot of political posts were getting put into HT and I think the MC was trying to accommodate the massive public focus on this election by letting a few of them survive outside of SZ, but I also thought that was a mistake. Eventually the MC did start moving them to the SZ where they belonged.

Then there are the posts that a couple of people like to post with their little disclaimer of "not meant to be political", even though the post is most definitely political. These are usually posted by people who either do not wish to be in the SZ or have been suspended from the SZ. Those are tiresome as well.

But most of the political posts that get put in HT seem to be from people who also say they do not want to be in the SZ. To them I have to say if you do not want to be in the SZ then do not talk politics outside of the SZ where members, such as yourself Jay, do not want to hear about it.
 
Last edited:
I am surprised a few quotes from one of our great statesmen would be found unsettling and political. My intent was not to start heated political discussions, but then I have not been a member of this board long enough to know what sets y'all off.

I just found them interesting.

I am also a member of another board that uses this exact same format except it only has eleven forums and a little over three thousand members. I posted this same list of Jefferson quotes on that forum, and few, if any, found it to be controversial. I guess it is an older forum and the members have worked through determining how to conduct themselves on a public forum.

That forum is related to my industry which is custom picture framing, it is called The Picture Framers Grumble. They also have a forum that was set up to handle discussions other than picture framing, it is called "warped moulding". The rules are similar to POAs in that they expect courtesy and no personal attacks or name calling.

A few members have been banned for stirring things up and being representative of the term "jerk". For the most part, the members are able to police themselves with a little nudge from a moderator now and then.

Anyway, I'm sorry if I have caused any problems and will be mindful of not posting anything that could possibly get anyone all worked up.

http://www.thegrumble.com/

John
 
Last edited:
John Baker said:
I am surprised a few quotes from one of our great statesmen would be found unsettling and political. My intent was not to start heated political discussions, but then I have not been a member of this board long enough to know what sets y'all off.
Click to expand...
Doesn't matter if they are heated or not. non-aviation political discussions belong in the SZ. It is just that simple.
 
John Baker said:
I am also a member of another board that uses this exact same format except it only has around six or seven forums and a little over three thousand members. I posted this same list of Jefferson quotes on that forum, and few, if any, found it to be controversial. I guess it is an older forum and the members have worked through determining how to conduct themselves on a public forum.
Click to expand...
SZ is not as bad as some people think it is. mostly those people who hold that opinion do not belong to it and thus do not particulate. We have had trouble makers there in the past and they have been weeded out. for the past month and half it has actually been pretty tame in the SZ. But every once and while we get someone who comes in causing trouble.

A few months ago a new guy came in calling everyone who did not agree with his view on a topics names. He was pretty much beaten into submission from people on both sides of issues and finally left the SZ. He has since been redeeming himself by being a good citizen outside of the SZ. our SZ is a little club and world unto itself where the long time residents know that we are arguing a point not personalities. Does it get heated? Sometimes and timeouts do occur, but most of the time we are usually just pulling each other's legs on an issue.
 
Last edited:
It is my personal observation that anything posted on this site which even vaguely touches on politics eventually goes nuclear, and then the MC (of which I am a member) has to clean up the mess. The time and effort for that (including getting a consensus among the MC members on what to do) is more than you can possibly imagine if you aren't doing it. We MC'ers very much appreciate it when you folks err on the side of caution with regard to potentially incendiary non-aviation topics by putting them in the Spin Zone yourselves.

That said, I will say "mea culpa" for moving the Jefferson thread without leaving a redirect.
 
I should add that things over on The Grumble have for sure gotten out of hand now and then. Threads have been locked, deleted, and given time outs. The moderators do have some work on their hands when that occurs.

John
 
Well, I, for one, appreciated the post. I think it would be safe to say that discussions about Thomas Jefferson lean a lot more towards History than Politics, but waddaIknow ... :-)
 
However, the obvious answer to your question "So, what happened to Thomas Jefferson" would be "He died. A long time ago." :)
 
gkainz said:
Well, I, for one, appreciated the post. I think it would be safe to say that discussions about Thomas Jefferson lean a lot more towards History than Politics, but waddaIknow ... :-)
Click to expand...
Depends Greg. The post was a lot of quote about what Jefferson thought the role of government should be. Those types of posts are meant to get a political discussion comparing what the forefathers thought and how it applies to government now. This was not a post to say discusioning Jefferson's role in the Virginia slave economy nor his inventions. It was to point out his viewpoints on the governement and politcs.
 
jmaynard said:
There are apparently folks who can post all sorts of political stuff and get away with it, not only by not having it moved to the SZ, but also in not, apparently, ever hearing a word about it. Others of us aren't so blessed. To those of us in the latter category, or those of us who are simply tired of it all in an aviation forum, it's gotten very tiresome, especially since the blessed appear to be all on the leftward end of the spectrum.
Click to expand...


Examples?:dunno:
 
smigaldi said:
SZ is not as bad as some people think it is. mostly those people who hold that opinion do not belong to it and thus do not particulate. We have had trouble makers there in the past and they have been weeded out. for the past month and half it has actually been pretty tame in the SZ. But every once and while we get someone who comes in causing trouble.

A few months ago a new guy came in calling everyone who did not agree with his view on a topics names. He was pretty much beaten into submission from people on both sides of issues and finally left the SZ. He has since been redeeming himself by being a good citizen outside of the SZ. our SZ is a little club and world unto itself where the long time residents know that were are argueing a point not personalities. Does it get heated? Sometimes and timeouts do occur, but most of the time we are usually just pulling each other's legs on an issue.
Click to expand...

Exactly. For an outsider looking in, it can look like a furball. For the most part, however, boundaries are respected. When they aren't, correction is usually swift. It is difficult to communicate in the written word, without the aid of nonverbal cues, when discussing controversial issues. It takes a while to get the vibe...
 
Here is my 2 cents, this is an aviation forum not a political one. If you want to talk politics go somewhere else, I joined this forum to hear and learn about flying, not what your political views are, you can keep those to yourself.
 
Dean said:
Here is my 2 cents, this is an aviation forum not a political one. If you want to talk politics go somewhere else, I joined this forum to hear and learn about flying, not what your political views are, you can keep those to yourself.
Click to expand...

And that's exactly why the SZ is an opt-in and no longer an opt-out part of the board.
 
kevin47881 said:
And that's exactly why the SZ is an opt-in and no longer an opt-out part of the board.
Click to expand...

And precisely why political posts are swiftly moved into the SZ where they won't bother folks who don't wish to see them. :yes:
 
As a member of several online forums on a variety of subjects, as a former administrator of one and moderator of others, I can tell you that I am unaware of any online forum that does not have political (and by that I mean the full range of political) topics creep in. Even those of have strict policies against it require tight moderation. The best we can do is create a "Spin Zone" type sub-forum to capture the activity and quarantine it.

Those who wish to avoid political discussions will be required to reorder their DNA to something other than human, or else lock themselves away from any other human being.
 
flyersfan31 said:
Exactly. For an outsider looking in, it can look like a furball. For the most part, however, boundaries are respected. When they aren't, correction is usually swift. It is difficult to communicate in the written word, without the aid of nonverbal cues, when discussing controversial issues. It takes a while to get the vibe...
Click to expand...
+1

Some people come in with ideological nonsense and goofball talking points get jumped on pretty quick. No matter if those are left or right viewpoints. Some figure it out and then blend in with the herd others are culled out and leave of their volition or have to have some MC assistance with their futures.
 
Dean said:
Here is my 2 cents, this is an aviation forum not a political one. If you want to talk politics go somewhere else, I joined this forum to hear and learn about flying, not what your political views are, you can keep those to yourself.
Click to expand...
Just curious how do you feel about the non-aviation topics in hangar talk?

Look at the winter tires thread as an example. No aviation content there at all. Should that question have been asked on an auto tire web board or was it ok to ask one's friends and aquatinences who all just happen to be pilots and share an interest in aviation?

The red board is 100% aviation. Nothing outside of that range of topics is tolerated and I think that board has lots a lot of its appeal because of it. It is a board the fosters no friendships or social life. PoA with it's SZ does have a significant social structure associated with it. I would hate to lose that if we were to only focus on topics that are related to aviation. most assuredly PoA would no longer be the 'back porch' kind of place any longer.
 
This thread should be moved to SZ. It is clearly non-aviation and decidedly political. It's also stirring up some animus.
 
docmirror said:
This thread should be moved to SZ. It is clearly non-aviation and decidedly political. It's also stirring up some animus.
Click to expand...

Actually I think it is more worthy of being in Site Feedback and Support, which is where any public comments, criticisms and questions belong related to POA.

But I'm feeling too lazy to move it... ;)
 
smigaldi said:
Do you have some examples of that Jay? You have made this claim several times now and I have yet to see you back it up with any kind of example.
Click to expand...
The MC has made it plain that making personal complaints about other posters in public will lead to a ban. I'm not going to test that line. In fact, I went back and edited a posting in another thread shortly after posting it to remove a personal reference, just to stay out of trouble.

But most of the political posts that get put in HT seem to be from people who also say they do not want to be in the SZ. To them I have to say if you do not want to be in the SZ then do not talk politics outside of the SZ where members, such as yourself Jay, do not want to hear about it.
Click to expand...
I try very, very hard not to be political on here. That's why it galls me so thoroughly when others do so and get away with it. As things stand, it appears to me that I'd get hammered right away, because my political views do not appear to agree with those of the MC, based on their observed actions. The MC may not think they're playing favorites, and I'll even grant they're trying not to, but the net result is the same as if they were.
 
jmaynard said:
The MC has made it plain that making personal complaints about other posters in public will lead to a ban. I'm not going to test that line. In fact, I went back and edited a posting in another thread shortly after posting it to remove a personal reference, just to stay out of trouble.


I try very, very hard not to be political on here. That's why it galls me so thoroughly when others do so and get away with it. As things stand, it appears to me that I'd get hammered right away, because my political views do not appear to agree with those of the MC, based on their observed actions. The MC may not think they're playing favorites, and I'll even grant they're trying not to, but the net result is the same as if they were.
Click to expand...
Speaking from personal experience here, I can tell you that is flatly absurd. I may not agree with some of the MC's decisions or the means by which they enforce them, but the notion that they're making decisions based on a political bias doesn't stand up to even a casual examination of the simple and unassailable facts. Absolutely ridiculous.

Short version: The MC can be, IMO, legitimately accused of a few things. Moderating the board and executing their authority based on political bent quite simply isn't one of them.
 
ReverendSlappy said:
Speaking from personal experience here, I can tell you that is flatly absurd. I may not agree with some of the MC's decisions or the means by which they enforce them, but the notion that they're making decisions based on a political bias doesn't stand up to even a casual examination of the simple and unassailable facts. Absolutely ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Clearly - they pick on you 'cause you're an #%*$@%#, not because you're a crackpot raving looney liberal. :D:D:D:D

(Slap knows this is in jest. The #$%@$$#@ part, not the raving looney liberal part! :rofl::rofl::rofl:)

I haven't seen any political slant to MC actions. People get "counseled" because they get out of hand, not because of their politics.

It's been said before -- if you don't like SZ, don't go there. It's invisible to you if you don't enroll. Who is it hurting????

Political stuff just has a way of getting controversial. It really should be in SZ.
 
Jay,

I want to assure you that we do review every bad post report we get, and make a judgment based solely on the content of the post, and this next part is important, based on the time of the report. If we review a thread, and find that it's borderline or less, and no action is taken, then we stop reading the thread. So, if a thread deteriorates after we looked at it, we may not be aware at all of the deterioration. So if you reported a thread, nothing happens for a few days, and it gets worse - well - report it again. (But please don't go hog wild, k? Cause we each get emails about bad post reports and I dont need my cell phone paging me every 5 minutes cause someone said "Palin's an idiot" or "Obama's a Muslim" in HT)

Where we absolutely fall short, and acknowledge the same, is in notifying the users who submitted the bad post reports of our decision. We've tried to improve that process, but the honest truth is, we haven't done that very well. I'm sorry, but at the same time, I can't promise we'll get any better, because its an extra administrative step that takes time and effort beyond reviewing the thread in question and then hitting "reply" on the thread in our disciplinary action forum, and to be quite frank, everyone on the MC is very busy, and its often all we can do to get a quorum to chime in on bad post reports in a 2-3 day period.

We absolutely do not decide to allow content to stay based on the political bias. The MC is very bi-partisan, in that regard. I assure you - the failings on our part in our moderation duties are not conspiratorial - they're simply failings because we're human beings with limited time on our hands.
 
ReverendSlappy said:
Speaking from personal experience here, I can tell you that is flatly absurd. I may not agree with some of the MC's decisions or the means by which they enforce them, but the notion that they're making decisions based on a political bias doesn't stand up to even a casual examination of the simple and unassailable facts. Absolutely ridiculous.

Short version: The MC can be, IMO, legitimately accused of a few things. Moderating the board and executing their authority based on political bent quite simply isn't one of them.
Click to expand...

Thank you for that, Slap.

Well, mostly thanks. :P
 
smigaldi said:
Just curious how do you feel about the non-aviation topics in hangar talk?


The red board is 100% aviation. Nothing outside of that range of topics is tolerated and I think that board has lots a lot of its appeal because of it. It is a board the fosters no friendships or social life. PoA with it's SZ does have a significant social structure associated with it. I would hate to lose that if we were to only focus on topics that are related to aviation. most assuredly PoA would no longer be the 'back porch' kind of place any longer.
Click to expand...

This is exactly why The Grumble has ended up being the premier picture framers forum over the years. Every other forum is business only, no camaraderie allowed at all. The PPFA ( professional picture framers association) has their own forum, however when they want to contact as many members as they can, it's done on The Grumble.

When a picture framer up in Carson City became ill, picture framers flew in from all over the country in staged sequences in order to keep her shop running. Many thousands of dollars were sent her way in order to help her through. All of this as a result of The Grumble. It was also a news item on Carson City TV.

These types of forums do foster friendships and community. Members have a tendency to look out for one another. You should be able to fling the bull about topics that are not necessarily related to the forum, even though some may find topics such as snow tires tedious.

Public forums have one great thing in common, if you are not interested in a particular subject, you can just go to another.

I should also add that the guy who set up and owns The Grumble is now selling advertising space on all the forums. It took him many years to get it to that point. His major philosophy seems to be in believing that the members and moderators are able to work most things out on their own. More of a hands off approach that has paid off big time for him.

John
 
Last edited:
flyersfan31 said:
Clearly - they pick on you 'cause you're an #%*$@%#, not because you're a crackpot raving looney liberal. :D:D:D:D

(Slap knows this is in jest. The #$%@$$#@ part, not the raving looney liberal part! :rofl::rofl::rofl:)

I haven't seen any political slant to MC actions. People get "counseled" because they get out of hand, not because of their politics.
Click to expand...

Bingo. Personal bias? Maybe. Political bias? Not so much. :D

flyersfan31 said:
It's been said before -- if you don't like SZ, don't go there. It's invisible to you if you don't enroll. Who is it hurting????

Political stuff just has a way of getting controversial. It really should be in SZ.
Click to expand...
This.
 
ReverendSlappy said:
Speaking from personal experience here, I can tell you that is flatly absurd. I may not agree with some of the MC's decisions or the means by which they enforce them, but the notion that they're making decisions based on a political bias doesn't stand up to even a casual examination of the simple and unassailable facts. Absolutely ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Just want to agree with Slap here. The makeup of the MC really does keep things on a more even keel than just one person making decisions on whether something crossed the line. And they do a good job at it, even if it may be a little slow since they are all volunteers, and actually have lives unlike some of us. :D
 
ReverendSlappy said:
Speaking from personal experience here, I can tell you that is flatly absurd. I may not agree with some of the MC's decisions or the means by which they enforce them, but the notion that they're making decisions based on a political bias doesn't stand up to even a casual examination of the simple and unassailable facts. Absolutely ridiculous.

Short version: The MC can be, IMO, legitimately accused of a few things. Moderating the board and executing their authority based on political bent quite simply isn't one of them.
Click to expand...

As much as it pains me to say this....I agree 100%. :D
 
Frank Browne said:
As much as it pains me to say this....I agree 100%. :D
Click to expand...
As I think of Frank and Slappy agreeing on something I hear this song in my head and see them running hand in hand through fields of wild flowers...


Sing along and feel the love!

Lovin' you is easy cause you're beautiful
Makin' love with you is all i wanna do
Lovin' you is more than just a dream come true
And everything that i do is out of lovin' you
La la la la la la la... do do do do do

No one else can make me feel
The colors that you bring
Stay with me while we grow old

And we will live each day in springtime
Cause lovin' you has made my life so beautiful
And every day my life is filled with lovin' you

Lovin' you i see your soul come shinin' through
And every time that we oooooh
I'm more in love with you
La la la la la la la... do do do do do


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 
Scott,

We've banned people permanently for lesser offenses than posting that song.

You should consider yourself very lucky!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top