Snowflakes in July

gkainz

gkainz

Final Approach
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
8,401
Location
Arvada, CO
Display Name
Display name:
Greg Kainz
If I wasn't so tired, grumpy, burned out, overworked and just plain unfit to communicate with the populace in general, I could have some fun with this letter we received today (and yes, the airplane being accused of all these shenanigans was actually flying this morning, and did actually fart in her general direction)

enjoy the following and get ready to exercise the eye rolls in 3 ... 2 ... 1...
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Good morning.
I’m in my home with the windows closed and this aircraft is circling the Boulder muni airport and it is LOUD. I live in city limits and have lived here for 2 decades. Airplane noise was never an issue until a couple of years ago.
Some pilots are extremely obnoxious with the loops and laps, types of aircraft, and landing approach choices.
This aircraft is simply far too loud impacting those on the ground too much. Please refrain from this airport as a choice for loops and laps. Boulder does try hard with noise abatements so everyone can get a piece of the peace. There are too many residences below the airspace. Erie has a ton of space. Or, simply remain with the Rocky airport which is where this craft flies out of. It’s designed and there for better suited for these types of loud planes and exercises. Boulder simply isn’t.
To be clear, we aren’t against pilots or our airport but if you haven’t heard, there are a number of issues, frictions and conflicts. Including pilots who are extremely insensitive if not revengeful. The more pilots try to flex their “rights” over peoples backyards the longer this conflict drags on and perhaps, the more local communities actually garner support to create more regulations. Please be mindful to those on the ground. It’s been a rough year as it is let alone not having our homes (inside at 7am for an hour thanks to 1 plane) sound like a war zone. Please find airspace better suited for loops with loud aircrafts. Boulder is not that place.
Many thanks,
S
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Actually, at some level I sympathize. As someone who really doesn’t like loud pipes on Harleys, I understand. we had a guy who had a geared engine and he was obnoxiously loud. He was loud slow and like to climb at full pitch and power over peoples houses. There are certain things that are loud enough. Going out of your way to make it louder isn’t good
 
Greg

I can understand and sympathize. I live under the approach to 17 at Centennial. The only aircraft that really bothers me is the Denver Police helicopter at 2 am. As the writer points out, it's a rough year, and it's not going to get any better in the near future. I do appreciate the writer recognizes Boulder does try to mitigate noise. As pilots do we have the privilege of flying pretty much anywhere we want? Yup. But remember Spiderman - with great power comes great responsibility. We should be good neighbors and mindful of those who just want a good night's sleep. Revenge doesn't help anyone. Nor is it a dish best served cold.

Right now Aurora is dealing with drag racers at night on Peoria and Parker road. The police don't seem able to do anything about it. To me, really easy...park 2-3 police cars at strategic points along the road and start stopping and ticketing, even arresting. Guess they're too busy...wait, if I finish that sentence I'll be banned because it deals with politics, both local and national.

Another reason I'm really happy to be based at FTG...er...CFO.
 
EdFred said:
I'd respond with BJC opened in 1960, when did you move into your house?
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Exactly. They probably moved into the house because it was a good deal because it was close to a noisy airport. Just like people who get good deals on houses near railroad tracks, or busy highways, or factories, or...
 
NIMBAS!
 
I'm not completely unsympathetic, but for a few facts:

- Boulder has a long history of professional airplane noise complainers.
- the pilot has family who have lived downwind of RWY 8 for 60 years and is VERY aware of noise abatement procedures ... in fact ...
- was teaching noise abatement procedures for Boulder in their "loops and laps" around the airport.
- our club stresses noise abatement awareness to all our members (pull the prop back where it makes sense, et al)
- our plane should "remain at Rocky where it was designed to be" ... hmmm, bet your car doesn't remain in the garage, where it was 'designed to be'?
- Boulder airport - where the complainer is near - http://www.coloradoairporthistory.com/stories/story-boulder.htm#:~:text=On June 1, 1943 , the,north side of the runway.

"The Airport has been an important part of Boulder's history since its origin as Hayden Field in the 1920s."

"On June 1, 1943, the City of Boulder purchased 36 acres of the Hayden Field property and re-named it Boulder Municipal Airport. Shortly after its purchase, the city graded the primary runway, installed runway markers, and built the first city-owned hangar (Hangar F) on the north side of the runway."

So, much longer standing than the complainer's "2 decades"

- and finally "sounded like a war zone" ??? I can attest that our airplanes are unarmed. :)
 
Somewhere, a long time ago now, someone like this complained. Instead of telling them to shove it, someone in leadership somewhere (or their boss, or their boss, etc) failed to do so and gave an inch to the NIMBY in question. Years later, here we are. Everyone getting victim status because something offends them, even if that something was there years or decades before them. Sad state of affairs.
 
I drop RPMs and manifold pressure with every takeoff. POH says to do it, and my airport has had lots and lots of noise complaints. Do what I can.
 
gkainz said:
I'm not completely unsympathetic, but for a few facts:

- Boulder has a long history of professional airplane noise complainers.
- the pilot has family who have lived downwind of RWY 8 for 60 years and is VERY aware of noise abatement procedures ... in fact ...
- was teaching noise abatement procedures for Boulder in their "loops and laps" around the airport.
- our club stresses noise abatement awareness to all our members (pull the prop back where it makes sense, et al)
- our plane should "remain at Rocky where it was designed to be" ... hmmm, bet your car doesn't remain in the garage, where it was 'designed to be'?
- Boulder airport - where the complainer is near - http://www.coloradoairporthistory.com/stories/story-boulder.htm#:~:text=On June 1, 1943 , the,north side of the runway.

"The Airport has been an important part of Boulder's history since its origin as Hayden Field in the 1920s."

"On June 1, 1943, the City of Boulder purchased 36 acres of the Hayden Field property and re-named it Boulder Municipal Airport. Shortly after its purchase, the city graded the primary runway, installed runway markers, and built the first city-owned hangar (Hangar F) on the north side of the runway."

So, much longer standing than the complainer's "2 decades"
- and finally "sounded like a war zone" ??? I can attest that our airplanes are unarmed. :)
Click to expand...
Greg, she paints a picture of aerobatics, maybe you can give an idea of how he was flying.
 
Maybe the aircraft in question was a glider after tow release. The slipstream wind over the wings does make noise.
 
murphey said:
The police don't seem able to do anything about it.
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Crazy, right?

I was in a 7-Eleven a few weeks back, some dude ran in (no mask, nothing), grabbed a bunch of stuff and left. The attendant said it's not worth calling the police as they show up hours later and otherwise don't do anything


And that's all I'll say about THAT!
 
^in case it wasn't clear, it was brazen theft.. walked in, grabbed like three bags of chips and a case of beer and just walked right out
 
From the letter it sounds like someone was doing aerobatic work. I can understand if that's the case, that can get annoying..

Unfortunately (?) we live in a world with other people in it, people who have different interests, desires, etc. At some point it is on all of us to be mindful of that.
 
Is this the same lady that tried to shutdown the skydiving operation at LMO and a judge told her to go shove it?
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Is this the same lady that tried to shutdown the skydiving operation at LMO and a judge told her to go shove it?
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Don't think so, the writer is in Boulder, some distance away from LMO. But she's on the warpath again, and has an ally in the congressional rep for that district. Unfortunately mine, so I can't vote against him.
 
Tantalum said:
Crazy, right?

I was in a 7-Eleven a few weeks back, some dude ran in (no mask, nothing), grabbed a bunch of stuff and left. The attendant said it's not worth calling the police as they show up hours later and otherwise don't do anything


And that's all I'll say about THAT!
Click to expand...

In modern-day America, what officer with even a shred of self-preservation instinct would make that arrest?

-in most major areas, the DA won’t even file on misdemeanor theft, and in WA, the felony step is >750.00.

-when the arrest goes bad (and it will, since the thief is likely stealing to support a drug habit and/or because they have a drug habit and spend their food money on dope), the officer will get lambasted on the news for weeks about the poor, unarmed crook they “injured/killed over a candy bar theft”...

-politicians and department heads with zero guts created this mess of overlooking “non-violent” crime. Why should the individual officer risk their families safety and everything they own to make that arrest/rush to the scene when no one up the food chain wants them to?
 
gkainz said:
If I wasn't so tired, grumpy, burned out, overworked and just plain unfit to communicate with the populace in general,
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YEP! me too. now looking at big boats, (nordhavn 43')
 
EdFred said:
I'd respond with BJC opened in 1960, when did you move into your house?
Click to expand...

denverpilot said:
Don’t forget: “And are you enjoying that plutonium Rocky Flats watered the grass with?”

Built them all right on top of that chit.
Click to expand...

Of course now that I read closer, the complainer is at Boulder, not BJC... but that’s makes it even less surprising, coming from the People’s Republic! LOL.

Both have complainers. As do all the others here.

APA holds a nice monthly meeting for them to come repetitively and air their “grievances”.
 
On the one hand, I whole heartedly agree that when selecting a place to live, you should make yourself aware of things like airports and railroads. If you buy a house next to an airport, you should expect to hear airplane noise.

But, on the other hand, many airports publish noise abatement procedures and put a great deal of effort in trying to reach out to the community and mitigate some of the anti-airplane noise sentiment. Then, along comes the Sunday morning commandos in their Cherokees and Cessna, making low-passes and early crosswinds, and the local character with his hot homebuilt with CS prop who's out to be heard, as well as seen. We are our own worst enemy!

Last Sunday, I went to a local Island resort community airstrip to sneek in from the windward side during the early morning calm. There was only one other soul in the area (at least according to the onboard complicator screen). And, it didn't look to me like he was going to land. He was doing circles over a couple of little rock outcroppings just north of the runway. As I reported 5 miles out and planning for a left base to land on the south runway, he suddenly turns and heads south and announces he entering down wind for the north runway. I adjusted my pattern and changed to a 45 entry for the north runway and watched as he dragged it in, right over the little community wedged in between a steep cove known for its amazing acoustic properties, at 8am on a Sunday morning! He then continued in the pattern for 3 more "touch&goes"... This is not how we make friends folks!
 
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watch

it was a long time in the works, and this is why we are now in trouble.
 
PaulS said:
Greg, she paints a picture of aerobatics, maybe you can give an idea of how he was flying.
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Do you mean here? or to the complainer?
The aircraft (Bonanza) was a CFI and club member, annual club recurrency training - included a couple landings at Boulder, a couple holds outside BJC ... no aerobatics

A1Topgun said:
Maybe the aircraft in question was a glider after tow release. The slipstream wind over the wings does make noise.
Click to expand...

Nope - Bonanza F33A - but yeah, the tow planes diving for the deck after release can whistle a little

Tantalum said:
From the letter it sounds like someone was doing aerobatic work. I can understand if that's the case, that can get annoying.
Click to expand...

nope - no aerobatics here, but I get your point.

Mtns2Skies said:
Is this the same lady that tried to shutdown the skydiving operation at LMO and a judge told her to go shove it?
Click to expand...

I don't think so, as she said she lives in Boulder. But there are number of frequent complainers near both airports.

Dana said:
From a non pilot, "loops and laps" sounds like traffic pattern work, somebody shooting landings.
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A couple of landings at Boulder, a couple of holds outside Jeff-uh-Metro ...
 
gkainz said:
Do you mean here? or to the complainer?
The aircraft (Bonanza) was a CFI and club member, annual club recurrency training - included a couple landings at Boulder, a couple holds outside BJC ... no aerobatics



Nope - Bonanza F33A - but yeah, the tow planes diving for the deck after release can whistle a little



nope - no aerobatics here, but I get your point.



I don't think so, as she said she lives in Boulder. But there are number of frequent complainers near both airports.



A couple of landings at Boulder, a couple of holds outside Jeff-uh-Metro ...
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She has nothing better to do...
 
PaulS said:
She has nothing better to do...
Click to expand...

Absolutely correct.

My experience with many of these folks is that the “issue” they are complaining about becomes their sole focus in life. An obsession. To anyone they are filing complaints with, they will say that they are a fair person and/or that they just want peace...but the reality is that their daily existence becomes the “issue” they are upset over. It becomes their entire purpose. It’s all they talk about, and if it were to stop magically, they’d find something else to complain about.

we had a case locally where an HOA (snd specifically, one key member) we’re complaining daily about a noise issue nearby. When the noise issue largely subsided, they (particularly he) continued to complain, and his justification for why the reported noise couldn’t be observed was that “it ended just before you got here.” It was ultimately proven that he was making it up after the folks responsible had curtailed the issue.

Miserable, pathetic human beings.
 
Omalley1537 said:
Absolutely correct.

My experience with many of these folks is that the “issue” they are complaining about becomes their sole focus in life. An obsession. To anyone they are filing complaints with, they will say that they are a fair person and/or that they just want peace...but the reality is that their daily existence becomes the “issue” they are upset over. It becomes their entire purpose. It’s all they talk about, and if it were to stop magically, they’d find something else to complain about.

we had a case locally where an HOA (snd specifically, one key member) we’re complaining daily about a noise issue nearby. When the noise issue largely subsided, they (particularly he) continued to complain, and his justification for why the reported noise couldn’t be observed was that “it ended just before you got here.” It was ultimately proven that he was making it up after the folks responsible had curtailed the issue.

Miserable, pathetic human beings.
Click to expand...
I see this sort of thing all of the time.
 
Has there been any advancement in piston engine/propeller noise reduction technology? There's been a lot with jet engines, of course, but I'm not aware of designs for quiet propellers or exhaust systems.
 
RussR said:
Has there been any advancement in piston engine/propeller noise reduction technology? There's been a lot with jet engines, of course, but I'm not aware of designs for quiet propellers or exhaust systems.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they're called fixed pitch props. :D
 
Turboprops can also be “relatively” quieter or less obnoxious depending on whatever noise frequency ranges one dislikes the most.
 
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