Snow Covered Soft Field Landing on Check Ride

[farmerbrake]

I wondered what the outcome would have been. The scariest thing that happened on my check ride was we were headed back to the airport (controlled field, already got cleared #1 to land) to finish everything and after we were a beam the #'s he said, 'why don't you go ahead and turn short final.' So I did. And he asked why. I told him cause he told me to and was the examiner. And he said nope, your PIC, you don't have to do anything I said.
So had that been my check ride I might have played the 'I'm PIC, my decision' especially since I'm not used to those conditions.
But congrats! My check ride wasn't near as stressful as yours and I commend you for keeping your cool!

 

[brcase]

Congrats on the new certificate…

Here is how my debriefing would have gone based on your write up.
Don’t let anyone talk you out of at least a minimum preflight, walk around the plane and make sure nobody has damaged any major parts, look in the engine compartment, and check the oil. On a commercial check ride you could easily fail for this, on a private check ride it is more of a good lesson. I once had a student depart with a full 6qts of oil on their solo x-country on after a 2 hr flight he checked it and it was at 2qts, there were no oil leaks; the engine was burning the oil.

Good job on the stall, explained your inexperience and used what you knew to approach a new situation.

Not sure the situation on navigating to the new field, If he gave you an Identifier, you should have been able to locate in the 430. This is just minimum understanding of the navigation equipment you have. If he didn’t have an identifier then I can see him giving you a pass on this…

Landing on the snow covered runway…
How well did you know the conditions, if you know the whole area only has a few inches of snow then I wouldn’t be concerned, if there are drifts or you are unfamiliar with the conditions in the area then the only way I would have proceeded would be to advise the Examiner you wouldn’t land due to your lack of information about the conditions, if he wants you to proceed then he needs to assume responsibility that the conditions are safe for landing. Very few examiners would accept this responsibility.

We recently had a local 182 flip when landing on a snow covered runway, the pilot saw about 3 feet of the posts along the side of the runway sticking up above the snow and thought the snow was only a few inches deep. Turned out the posts were 6 foot tall snow markers.

No problem about missing the airport underneath you during the emergency procedure, a good landing in a field would probably insure no injuries, but it is a good lesson that situational awareness includes knowing where nearby airports/landing areas are.

I mostly agree with your DPE on the go around, I don’t think it would be a fail the check ride item, but the only knob that is going to start you going around is the throttle, do it 1st. Everything else is secondary. I watch too many students operate carb heat, flaps, mixture, prop, clock , etc, before they add power. If you decide to go around, start going around 1st.
I don't have much issue with pilots closing the carb heat on short final, but don't usually teach it that way.

Again Congrats and keep learning

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[madriverman]

Thanks Brian!

I did a quick preflight anyway--but I made sure he was nice and cozy first
I has just flown a few hours prior so I wasn't too concerned.

No problem on working the 430...it just threw me for a loop--flying to a tiny strip when we had a nice class E airport right there.

I knew that there couldn't be more than 6 or so inches on the runway--and I crossed midfield and checked it out. Would I have rather landed on a nice, wide, long, plowed runway? You bet your ass--but I was up for the challenge

Thanks for the thoughtful, professional feedback. I really appreciate it.

 

[Cpt_Kirk]

Thanks guys...lifelong dream, realized! Now, onto IFR and ME.

Do them at the same time.

It seemed that he was a pretty nice guy and towards the middle, you were getting on his nerves. I could be wrong, but that's what I got from your write-up. Congratulations!

 

[jordane93]

Congrats pilot!

 

[F01LA]

Congratulations! As others have said, this one makes my checkride look easy.

Given what you've said, I still would have declined to land on the snow covered runway (he might have known it was OK, but you didn't know that). Don't be afraid to be PIC, even when there's someone more experienced encouraging you to do something. It could save your life one day.

I learned this on a stage check when the CFI told me to land downwind on a 2200' runway. I was on short final still trying to get wind info when he said to go around. He encouraged me to, in the future, better exercise PIC authority in order to stay out of dangerous situations.

 

[fiveoboy01]

I had flown that morning so he told me that I didn’t need to preflight. He was cold and wanted to get the show on the road.

I would have told him to get his pansy butt inside where it's warm and I'd come get him when I was done with my preflight.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Seems like alot of folks who weren't in the cockpit and privvy to the interaction between candidate and examiner are quick to critique the OP's decision making.

Regardless of how we would armchair it, the OP clearly satisfied the examiner's criteria for successful completion and ADM - and the temp Airman Certificate is that proof.

For the OP - congrats - now get out and gain some more experience!

 

[WingNut42]

Sounds like it was a good ride overall, congrats!

 

[qbynewbie]

Great write-up! Great checkride, too -- you passed, did well, learned a few things and got some fun, real-life experience. All good things.

100 feet above the ground he says, “Deer in the runway!” I push carb heat in and then power for the go around…he screams, “FAIL! That’s a FAIL!!!!” Fully ****ting my pants now, I ask, “What’s a fail?” He says on a go around, NEVER put carb heat to cold before power. That can freeze up the engine—he’s seen it happen. Always power first on a go around. Always. I tell him I will never, ever, ever do it again—he says, “Good.” Still talking.

Interesting to hear that from a DPE since so many CFIs adamantly teach carb heat cold before adding power.

Right? My CFI said it was BS...and I shot a text to the DPE...he said carb heat to cold before power ONLY in the instance of a go around. He said he has seen a few instances where the engine quit in a similar situation.

Did he say what kind of engines he has seen it on?

Personally, I prefer to follow the DPE's advice and apply power first and then push the carb heat in.....but that is based on my personal experience and talking to other pilots operating the same engine. I would add that the only carburated engine I fly behind these days is a Continental W670 (radial) which is also the only engine I have flown where I have experienced carb ice.

Wow, congratulations on passing what sounds like a pretty tough checkride!

The power vs. carb heat on a go around is an interesting thing. I always try to do both simultaneously, but if I can't I tend to go with power first (that gets me the most power earliest) and then follow up with the carb heat. I hadn't considered that there could be engine trouble by doing it the other way, though.

It happened to me last winter and is the only full engine failure I've ever had. I fly a 172 with a Continental O-300 (aka "the ice maker") engine. After 5.5 years of flying the plane, I've learned to be very cautious about carb ice in all fight regimes and have even seen it form ice on full-power climbs, which some people say isn't possible.

But that wasn't the real issue last winter. I was flying with my CFI on a day when the temps were about 5 degrees, the wind chill was quite a bit colder and the DA was negative by a few thousand feet. We were just out screwing around so I decided to do a few touch and goes. I have carb heat on during all reduced power operations (i.e., whenever below the green arc on the tach), which includes when landing. As soon as I land, flaps come up and carb heat goes to cold, regardless of whether I'm doing a full stop or a touch and go.

On the very first landing, a King Air was on downwind while I was on final. I landed fine, set carb heat to cold, raised the flaps, added full power for the takeoff and BAM!!! Complete engine failure! I was dumbfounded but immediately let the King Air know that we were dead on the runway. I couldn't get it restarted right away, either, but was finally able to restart it after a couple of minutes.

The issue, as far as I could determine after talking to my mechanics and also some other pilots, wasn't carb ice but issues with fuel atomization. When I got the engine going, we did a couple more landings and takeoffs, leaving carb heat warm for the entire duration, without problem.

We tend to think of carb heat as just for melting carb ice but when the DA is really negative by a lot, the mixture will be way too lean even with the mixture control set to full rich. Under some situations, adding carb heat to enrichen the mixture may be advantageous or necessary for full power operations.

Also, when it's cold out, I now put on carb heat before all power reductions even if it was off before. Carb heat on for a few seconds, reduce power, carb heat off if no other issues. My mechanics recommended this procedure because of the potential for throttle ice (as opposed to fuel ice).

 

[SkyHog]

TBH, the DPE sounded like he really knew what he was doing. I happen to disagree with him wholeheartedly about not communicating, but that's how old people are sometimes.

Biggest thing he proved: flying is dirt simple. Just do it. And you did. Congrats.

 

[madriverman]

I agree! His point was mostly, fly the plane...fly the plane...fly the plane...but entering class E airspace with commercial traffic, you bet your sweet ass I'm gonna announce my position/intention.