Smoke Bomb as Poor Man's PLB?

[bigblockz8]

Besides a PLB and having a cell phone I was wondering about the legality of carrying a colored smoke bomb. A home made smoke bomb specifically. Today the car broke down on a long and traffic less road. The tow truck said he'd arrive in 20 mins and to give hom directions from the main road. With battery dying I told him that at 12:35 (40 mins from the current call) to look for blue smoke. I lit my bomb, burned for 40 mins. Bright blue went across the field and we got a tow.

Now in the event of crashing and having a SAR mission, wouldn't the colored smoke help locate me if I am on the side of a mountain or in a thick forest?

It is not an explosive so I don't see why I would not be able to bring it. If I keep the fuse separate (for safety I already do so) doesn't that also make it (if the FAA wanted to consider it an explosive) random parts that can me made into something?

You don't just have sheet metal and iron pellets around and call that a crude rifle, still have to make the rifle correct? What would you do? Personally I cannot afford a PLB so when I have my private I will at least carry the needed tools and supplies. What about assembled though?

It's like a flare gun but stays on the ground and lasts a LOT longer.

There's also a variant that can be made with rubber or plastic and smokes a lot but the fumes...

I've heard about the signal fire methods and I have a flint but if all else fails right?

 

[Mike I]

Greg,

Without commenting on the smoke bomb concept, PLBs are quite affordable. You can get an ACR ResQFix for about $210 after rebate right now. Spare a few hours on the Hobbes for peace of mind?

 

[pericynthion]

I don't think the FAA would care, so much as maybe the ATF or state/local laws. BWTHDIK.

 

[ClimbnSink]

Just burn the planes tires, if you need rescue, you don't need airplane tires. What happens if your smoke bomb goes off in the cockpit?

 

[cavmedic]

Just burn the planes tires, if you need rescue, you don't need airplane tires. What happens if your smoke bomb goes off in the cockpit?

If your holding the lighter to the fuse , I would have to say it was deserved.



They make smoke grenades for airsoft gamers

 

[Threefingeredjack]

There are many commercially available pyrotechnics that are safe to store and will create either orange smoke or red flare. A company called Ikaros makes a replica of what we carried, the Mk13 Day/Night signal. IMHO every plane shoudl have a complete survival kit on board when travelling, including pyrotechnics. Don't forget that a small mirror is an excellent signalling device that can be easily learned to operate. There are specially designed signalling mirrors available as well. The few extra pounds they add to your load can pay off in a big way.

 

[denverpilot]

We did some live tests with signal mirrors last year. Real glass big US Military signal mirrors really do work significantly better than a number of other items tested, including a compact disc. (Which by the way, did work... It just wasn't nearly as noticible for the receiving testers.

Smoke in the mountains of ANY sort will get attention around here. Magnesium firestarter ON your body (not in the back of the airplane somewhere as someone mentioned... stuff you have ON is survival gear. Stuff in the back may or may not be accessible...) is lightweight and effective.

If you didn't crash from a lack of fuel, you have a nice accelerant handy too. 100LL.

 

[denverpilot]

Best advice ever... take your survival gear and go see if you'd survive a night in winter with it. Actually get it out and set up a camp. If it doesn't work for you camping next to a car in winter, it won't work for real either. Especially if you have injuries.

 

[Piloto]

There are many commercially available pyrotechnics that are safe to store and will create either orange smoke or red flare. A company called Ikaros makes a replica of what we carried, the Mk13 Day/Night signal. IMHO every plane shoudl have a complete survival kit on board when travelling, including pyrotechnics. Don't forget that a small mirror is an excellent signalling device that can be easily learned to operate. There are specially designed signalling mirrors available as well. The few extra pounds they add to your load can pay off in a big way.

+1 I agree, a flare gun will give you better visibility. A PLB is a must but will not catch the attention of those closer to you like a passing vehicle or a boat. If you need to ditch you have two possible rescue options.

 

[alfadog]

+1 I agree, a flare gun will give you better visibility. A PLB is a must but will not catch the attention of those closer to you like a passing vehicle or a boat. If you need to ditch you have two possible rescue options.

LOL. If I am alone in a life vest, I will take either. Somehow, the amphib pic reminds of the scene from Dumb and Dumber where they pass on being "oil boys" for the bikini tour.

 

[alfadog]

There are many commercially available pyrotechnics that are safe to store and will create either orange smoke or red flare. A company called Ikaros makes a replica of what we carried, the Mk13 Day/Night signal. IMHO every plane shoudl have a complete survival kit on board when travelling, including pyrotechnics. Don't forget that a small mirror is an excellent signalling device that can be easily learned to operate. There are specially designed signalling mirrors available as well. The few extra pounds they add to your load can pay off in a big way.

A quick search found the below helpful site:

http://www.equipped.com/avraft24.htm

Also:

http://www.datrex.com/products.html?page=shop.browse&category_id=4

 

[DouglasBader]

For about a hundred bucks you can get one of the SPOT emergency tools. Those can be used to track your travels, and have a 911 feature installed that will notify emergency services with any message you choose, along with your location. They don't produce any heat and aren't an ignition source, and fit nicely in your flight bag.

They claim to be useful globally, though I've tried them all over without much luck. In the US they appear to work fine, however, and may be worth considering.

http://www.findmespot.com/en/

A signal mirror makes a much better emergency signalling device than smoke. For a lot of reasons, smoke can be hard to detect from the air (I spent a lot of years chasing smoke from the air). A mirror flash is hard to miss. If you are going to use smoke, then a mirror flash is still the best way to get help headed toward you, or at least help them find the smoke.

 

[Henning]

Besides a PLB and having a cell phone I was wondering about the legality of carrying a colored smoke bomb. A home made smoke bomb specifically. Today the car broke down on a long and traffic less road. The tow truck said he'd arrive in 20 mins and to give hom directions from the main road. With battery dying I told him that at 12:35 (40 mins from the current call) to look for blue smoke. I lit my bomb, burned for 40 mins. Bright blue went across the field and we got a tow.

Now in the event of crashing and having a SAR mission, wouldn't the colored smoke help locate me if I am on the side of a mountain or in a thick forest?

It is not an explosive so I don't see why I would not be able to bring it. If I keep the fuse separate (for safety I already do so) doesn't that also make it (if the FAA wanted to consider it an explosive) random parts that can me made into something?

You don't just have sheet metal and iron pellets around and call that a crude rifle, still have to make the rifle correct? What would you do? Personally I cannot afford a PLB so when I have my private I will at least carry the needed tools and supplies. What about assembled though?

It's like a flare gun but stays on the ground and lasts a LOT longer.

There's also a variant that can be made with rubber or plastic and smokes a lot but the fumes...

I've heard about the signal fire methods and I have a flint but if all else fails right?

Well the international for smoke flares is orange smoke for emergencies. Any boating supply store carries them, the best ones will say SOLAS on them. These aren't instead things as they have existed for a long time. You should have had these long before the PLB existed. The PLB was developed to augment the visual signaling system, not replace it.

 

[Threefingeredjack]

Well the international for smoke flares is orange smoke for emergencies. Any boating supply store carries them, the best ones will say SOLAS on them. These aren't instead things as they have existed for a long time. You should have had these long before the PLB existed. The PLB was developed to augment the visual signaling system, not replace it.

You bring up an excellent point. While a PLB can get a SAR crew close, making actual visual contact is another matter entirely. I was once in a situation where we were looking for folks who had put down along the coast of Sedanka Island in the Aleutians. We were crawling along under low ceilings, (Surprise surprise), in heavy rain. We were having a tough time locking down their precise location. Luckily, the party we were looking for had smoke and red stars, and used them as soon as they saw us.

 

[gprellwitz]

You bring up an excellent point. While a PLB can get a SAR crew close, making actual visual contact is another matter entirely. I was once in a situation where we were looking for folks who had put down along the coast of Sedanka Island in the Aleutians. We were crawling along under low ceilings, (Surprise surprise), in heavy rain. We were having a tough time locking down their precise location. Luckily, the party we were looking for had smoke and red stars, and used them as soon as they saw us.

Under low ceilings (or canopy, for that matter), how effective would a signal mirror be?
I was going to ask about nighttime, but realized that there probably isn't much searching conducted at night. Neither smoke nor signal mirrors would be effective then. Flares or fire would be, but again, maybe not if under canopy.

 

[denverpilot]

Last year a photo taken at sunset when analyzed over the next hour made the go/no-go decision to push into bad terrain in bad weather in the dark near RMNP with ground rescue teams on a missing aircraft.

The object of interest was a fire, caught in the photo in diminishing daylight. The survivors had built a campfire.

The rescue teams were sent and the folks were pulled out before daylight the next morning. Otherwise the go decision probably would have been withheld for the safety of the rescue teams.

A "sign of life" is a significant factor sometimes.

 

[Threefingeredjack]

Under low ceilings (or canopy, for that matter), how effective would a signal mirror be?
I was going to ask about nighttime, but realized that there probably isn't much searching conducted at night. Neither smoke nor signal mirrors would be effective then. Flares or fire would be, but again, maybe not if under canopy.

You need good sunlight to make a flash with a mirror, and you need to aim it at the aircraft you are attempting to signal. Signal mirrors have a viewport in the middle which you sight through. Tracking a moving target with a flash takes a little practice, and under a canopy it would be hit or miss. Actually night searches are more effective and more common than you might think, using IR and NVG technology. When we got a call, we went unless it was absolutely without question unflyable. The light amplification of night goggles will pick up the screen of a cell phone from two miles away, and I have seen the loom of a lighthouse from 70 miles out.

 

[Ted]

Henning is correct on this. The smoke bomb will make it obvious once crews have gotten to your area where exactly you are (which can be pretty difficult for them to figure out). However, for a smoke bomb to do anything useful, someone must be near enough to see it and be looking for it.

 

[jnmeade]

Be careful you don't burn the whole danged forest down.
Be sure to make the plane call the smoke color rather than you announce it.

 

[denverpilot]

Be careful you don't burn the whole danged forest down.

Frankly, if it's a choice of survival or burning the forest down, I'll choose the former.

The burned out area at the ignition source is the safest place to be, too, even if the wind turns and runs back toward you later.

No one wants to cause that much damage, but if the choice is found alive, forest burning... versus found frozen to death, forest intact...

 

[Henning]

Frankly, if it's a choice of survival or burning the forest down, I'll choose the former.

The burned out area at the ignition source is the safest place to be, too, even if the wind turns and runs back toward you later.

No one wants to cause that much damage, but if the choice is found alive, forest burning... versus found frozen to death, forest intact...

Sounds selfish as hell to me, don't give a rats azz about anyone but yourself. Destroy town, kill hundreds of animals including peoples uninsured live stock they need to make a living, but what the hell, you survived, right?

 

[bigblockz8]

If the aircraft did not start a forest fire I am sure that it cleared a decent area free of combustibles. I guess best bet would be FP,PLB, signalling mirror, flare gun (one time,20 second use), and smoke bombs. I'd carry orange since blue tends to fade in daylight, plus the emergency color. Not being sarcastic but maybe a fluorescent lime yellow vest too?

I saw a guy preflighting next to me and asked where he was flying. He had a PLB, 3 flare gun flares, a flare gun, a flashlight, a life jacket, and hiking gear on. He said he was going out to DEALE to do some maneuvers. DEALE is a 10nm flight from the airport and is over the Chesapeake Bay and a bunch of beach houses. I asked why he'd need all of that stuff minus the life jacket. "Cheaper than a funeral."

 

[denverpilot]

Sounds selfish as hell to me, don't give a rats azz about anyone but yourself. Destroy town, kill hundreds of animals including peoples uninsured live stock they need to make a living, but what the hell, you survived, right?

Town? None around. Live stock? None around.

What are you babbling about?

We're talking FOREST here, not civilization. You know... miles and miles from other humans.

We have that stuff out here.

 

[denverpilot]

If the aircraft did not start a forest fire I am sure that it cleared a decent area free of combustibles.

Definitely not true around here. Crashes in trees don't clear anything.

The trees are all still standing after the aircraft wedges itself between them all the way to the ground. It breaks a few branches the size of your leg off of a few trees in a dense forest, and it's barely visible from above.

Any steeper, or whack a tree truck center-on, you probably didn't survive. It takes YEARS to find these crashes. Luckily in most cases, there's no sign the person survived later when the wreck is found. The body/bodies are still in the aircraft.

If you can you aim for softer trees. Aspens. They either bend and rebound for the most part, or in extremely dry years, the branches shatter and explode, leaving little pieces everywhere the aircraft hit, with a slightly more discernible path through the branches from above. Still very hard to spot from the air.

 

[Henning]

If the aircraft did not start a forest fire I am sure that it cleared a decent area free of combustibles.

The majority of small plane crashes have no element of fire to them as there is no fuel and not enough heat left by the time of crash to get the solid fuel on the ground started.

 

[jnmeade]

Well, my post about not starting a fire was mostly, but not entirely, tongue in cheek. It's easy to see one crash and then start a fire that gets away from oneself and consumes whatever is left of the airplane (shelter and food) - we do have to make a big enough fire to see, don't we?
Anyway, popping smoke may be OK in some circumstances. My experience with popping smoke in country is that you get an intense heats source and if it gets near combustible material the fire may take off on it's own. You're darned sure not going to go in and put it out.
"Yeah, I got purple smoke" "What, you popped green? Not you then, I'd better clear the area"

 

[DouglasBader]

Actually night searches are more effective and more common than you might think, using IR and NVG technology.

Rarely ever used in the lower 48 for search and rescue. Most SAR work is day VFR, usually be volunteer pilots and crews.

The burned out area at the ignition source is the safest place to be, too, even if the wind turns and runs back toward you later.

You don't have any experience in or around wildland fires, do you?

If you can get to the black, and you can get to it once it's a cool area, maybe. Otherwise, you may be asking for trouble.

Under low ceilings (or canopy, for that matter), how effective would a signal mirror be?

Not very. A signal mirror is still one of the most valuable signalling devices you can throw in your bag, however

 

[Threefingeredjack]

Rarely ever used in the lower 48 for search and rescue. Most SAR work is day VFR, usually be volunteer pilots and crews.

I'm sure my experience doesn't match yours, but in my experience SAR happened when the call came, no matter time of day. I'm not sure where you got your statistics, but on an average day the USCG conducts 109 SAR Cases, saves 10 lives, and assists 192 people in distress. I would like to see your numbers on civilian SAR activity on an average day. And at every station I served at, even in the lower 48, IR and NVG were used 100% of the time at night, and in low visibility day time, even in light rain, IR is a valuable tool for picking out hot targets from the background.

 

[denverpilot]

I think he meant *inland* SAR in the Lower 48 and mis-spoke. Lots and lots less of that than coastal SAR.

 

[Threefingeredjack]

I think he meant *inland* SAR in the Lower 48 and mis-spoke. Lots and lots less of that than coastal SAR.

A valid point.