Sleeping controller at my home field...

flyingcheesehead

flyingcheesehead

Taxi to Parking
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
25,439
Location
UQACY, WI
Display Name
Display name:
iMooniac
I flew back into Madison tonight, and ATC was asleep...













... At home in their own beds, where they oughtta be. Myself and the inbound American Eagle flight worked things out without any help, and safety was not compromised.

Now, why can't the FAA seem to figure this out?
 
The FAA and the controllers know better. It's the people feeding the media this info that hasn't. All the media is doing is whipping it into a frenzy.
It sells. They make money.
 
silver-eagle said:
The FAA and the controllers know better. It's the people feeding the media this info that hasn't. All the media is doing is whipping it into a frenzy.
It sells. They make money.
Click to expand...

Along the same lines as "the first lady's plane came within three miles of jet." :hairraise:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Now, why can't the FAA seem to figure this out?
Click to expand...

I've been wondering that myself. I think they figured it's easier just to go along with it than to try to battle against the uninformed rabble-rousing press.

Can't blame them. After all, what if there had been an elementary school open under the flightpath at midnight and the airliner exploded in midair due to the sleeping controller, DESPITE HAVING FILED A FLIGHT PLAN, showering flaming debris from the resultant fireball onto the unsuspecting children, five of whom could have been special needs kids?? We can't take chances like that!



;):rolleyes:
 
The controllers at ATW fall asleep at night all the time as well. Of course the tower is closed :p
 
Same here at KEAT. I'm flying out on Horizon on Thursday morning, no tower, no controller and no one on the radio!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hairraise:

All them airports that the regionals fly into day in, day out, no controllers and geee..... no flaming wreckage.
 
The Media doesn't know there is no such thing as a uncontrolled airport,,,,,,,,, the control is the pilots responsibility
 
Sorry, fellas, but the airspace around Madison ain't DC or NYC.

Having flown plenty in each I can say I'd prefer my controllers alert. Stuff comes at you fast and it's mostly big.




:dunno:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Myself and the inbound American Eagle flight worked things out without any help, and safety was not compromised.
Click to expand...
WOW, the little hairs on the back of my neck were really raised reading about your harrowing tale of daring do! I think you are lucky to be alive. Did either of you use the phrase ATITAPA and can the successful outcome be attributed to those magic words?
 
ScottM said:
Did either of you use the phrase ATITAPA and can the successful outcome be attributed to those magic words?
Click to expand...

Not required since A-E was on a flight plan...
 
dmccormack said:
Sorry, fellas, but the airspace around Madison ain't DC or NYC.

Having flown plenty in each I can say I'd prefer my controllers alert. Stuff comes at you fast and it's mostly big.
Click to expand...

Dan,

In the DC incident, it was a tower controller, not TRACON - And if I read it correctly, he was asleep for FIVE HOURS and only TWO AIRPLANES landed in that time span.

Close the damn tower. I don't give a crap if it's DC or NYC, if the controller only works 2 airplanes in 5 hours, there's no reason for them to be open. And frankly, big fast stuff that's in tower's airspace at night has big bright lights and is amazingly easy to avoid.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Dan,

In the DC incident, it was a tower controller, not TRACON - And if I read it correctly, he was asleep for FIVE HOURS and only TWO AIRPLANES landed in that time span.

Close the damn tower. I don't give a crap if it's DC or NYC, if the controller only works 2 airplanes in 5 hours, there's no reason for them to be open. And frankly, big fast stuff that's in tower's airspace at night has big bright lights and is amazingly easy to avoid.
Click to expand...

That was the first incident, but several more have arisen since (I can't keep track).

I agree -- tower controllers late at night are probably overkill 98% of the time... until equipment wants to cross the active, or there's some other emergency.

The impact of such an emergency in the larger, busier fields could be catastrophic.

But I get your point -- we can save lots of $$ by closing all the TRSAs, Class Cs, and reducing hours at most Ds.
 
Ok, most of this is a non starter with me.

dmccormack said:
I agree -- tower controllers late at night are probably overkill 98% of the time... until equipment wants to cross the active, or there's some other emergency.
Click to expand...

Anyone out there at those fields have radios. Airport security doesn't go away just because the tower is closed.

The impact of such an emergency in the larger, busier fields could be catastrophic.
Click to expand...

CFR doesn't go away if the tower is closed.
 
dmccormack said:
That was the first incident, but several more have arisen since (I can't keep track).
Click to expand...

So, it's a chronic problem. But in all the cases, there wasn't even enough traffic to keep a controller awake. If the traffic levels are that low, a CTAF should be way more than enough.

I agree -- tower controllers late at night are probably overkill 98% of the time... until equipment wants to cross the active, or there's some other emergency.

The impact of such an emergency in the larger, busier fields could be catastrophic.
Click to expand...

Example, please?

Even after the tower closes, our crash fire and rescue crews are present all night and monitoring CTAF... And the ATIS says so. (Pretty sure that's a requirement for Part 139 airports - The ones the airliners are landing at.) You don't need the tower to roll the trucks for you.

And if equipment wants to cross the active - Hell, they've been taught how to use the radio to talk to tower. No reason they can't use the radio on the CTAF too.

But I get your point -- we can save lots of $$ by closing all the TRSAs, Class Cs, and reducing hours at most Ds.
Click to expand...

That's not what I said - Just the ones where there's not even enough traffic to keep a controller awake. Some Class C's (such as Louisville and Indianapolis) have plenty of traffic at night due to UPS and FedEx.
 
Hey guys -- I'm not siding with the lamestream media on the latest reaonstobescared.

But ATC sleeping on post in more congested airspace or fields is potentially bad. I've had a couple of close calls when I was IFR and in and out of IMC and the controller failed to call a fast mover until it was very close. I queried and he replied, "I don't have him..." (So much for TCAS).

In busy airspace we can all pretend to see everything all the time, but I like an additional set of awake, alert eyes and I'm sure transports closing at 500 knots prefer it that way too.
 
dmccormack said:
Hey guys -- I'm not siding with the lamestream media on the latest reaonstobescared.

But ATC sleeping on post in more congested airspace or fields is potentially bad. I've had a couple of close calls when I was IFR and in and out of IMC and the controller failed to call a fast mover until it was very close. I queried and he replied, "I don't have him..." (So much for TCAS).

In busy airspace we can all pretend to see everything all the time, but I like an additional set of awake, alert eyes and I'm sure transports closing at 500 knots prefer it that way too.
Click to expand...

Thus, he was awake.
 
DeeG said:
Same here at KEAT. I'm flying out on Horizon on Thursday morning, no tower, no controller and no one on the radio!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hairraise:

All them airports that the regionals fly into day in, day out, no controllers and geee..... no flaming wreckage.
Click to expand...

KPUW is the same way.

ScottM said:
WOW, the little hairs on the back of my neck were really raised reading about your harrowing tale of daring do! I think you are lucky to be alive. Did either of you use the phrase ATITAPA and can the successful outcome be attributed to those magic words?
Click to expand...

I've shared the air with Horizon at KPUW. CTAF works fine.
 
The tower at my home base closes at 0300Z every night. I usually try to get back while they're still open (mostly so I don't have to remember to close my IFR flight plan) but I've landed several times after they turned the cab lights off, once or twice when there were other airplanes in the area landing at the same airport. I even managed to escape death landing on my own without help from the tower. Can you imagine the uproar if the media found out?
 
gismo said:
The tower at my home base closes at 0300Z every night. I usually try to get back while they're still open (mostly so I don't have to remember to close my IFR flight plan) but I've landed several times after they turned the cab lights off, once or twice when there were other airplanes in the area landing at the same airport. I even managed to escape death landing on my own without help from the tower. Can you imagine the uproar if the media found out?
Click to expand...

For me, landing after my tower has shut down for the night (0230Z) is a routine event. In each case, I have successfully attempted this harrowing maneuver without harm to life or limb.

Typically, I keep it to myself. I don't want to others to feel inferior for being unable to complete such incredible feats of aviation. :D
 
Ted DuPuis said:
For me, landing after my tower has shut down for the night (0230Z) is a routine event. In each case, I have successfully attempted this harrowing maneuver without harm to life or limb.
Click to expand...

I don't know 'bout you but I got training and an endorsement to land at a field w/o an operating control tower. The endorsement is on a yellow piece of paper that I used to carry with me any time I was flying. Don't know if it is still valid since I carry a piece of white paper now...
 
Greg Bockelman said:
OMG!!! :hairraise: I never got that endorsement.
Click to expand...

The media is right, it's unsafe for airplanes to land unless the controller is awake since at least one airline pilot admits to not being endorsed for pilot controlled field ops!

Obviously we can't keep the controllers awake so the only answer is more training and qualifications. Maybe it'll even need a check ride. That'll be another $300 for every pilot plus brain death in IACRA. Thank diety for the perseverance of the media in this matter!
 
We took off the other night into the airspace of a busy metropolitan area without hearing "cleared for takeoff"...
 
Everskyward said:
We took off the other night into the airspace of a busy metropolitan area without hearing "cleared for takeoff"...
Click to expand...

:hairraise:I shudder at the thought. Do you have proper training and endorsement for that action (unlike the airline driver dude)????
 
Clark1961 said:
:hairraise:I shudder at the thought. Do you have proper training and endorsement for that action (unlike the airline driver dude)????
Click to expand...
I think I'm in the same boat as the airline driver dude. :D
 
I suspect it's not the media at fault so much as "outraged" politicians. It's part of the current rhetoric of "greedy/lazy public sector workers" used by some politicians. Rather than set public policy on a calm analysis of problems, needs and safety, it's "lazy, tax-payer funded employees!" used as an excuse to justify further cuts to government (or to privatize).
 
Lapsed said:
I suspect it's not the media at fault so much as "outraged" politicians. It's part of the current rhetoric of "greedy/lazy public sector workers" used by some politicians. Rather than set public policy on a calm analysis of problems, needs and safety, it's "lazy, tax-payer funded employees!" used as an excuse to justify further cuts to government (or to privatize).
Click to expand...


Holy cow -- this reply is so laden with political bias you could drive a Spin Zone through it!

:eek:


FWIW, Spin Zone is the proper forum for soapboxing, but the line is not black and white - it's a rather grey hue.

:D
 
dmccormack said:
Holy cow -- this reply is so laden with political bias you could drive a Spin Zone through it!

:eek:


FWIW, Spin Zone is the proper forum for soapboxing, but the line is not black and white - it's a rather grey hue.

:D
Click to expand...

Sorry. ;)
 
dmccormack said:
Holy cow -- this reply is so laden with political bias you could drive a Spin Zone through it!

:eek:
Click to expand...

Didn't look biased at all to me - Just a simple statement of how our political system is currently running. Lots of rah-rah and finger-pointing, and very little calm, reasoned analysis of a problem to arrive at a good decision. The problem is that as soon as someone tries to be calm and reasoned, someone from the other party points a finger on them and says they're soft on terror/soft on crime/harming the children/have no regard for public safety/yadda yadda yadda. And that goes for both parties.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Didn't look biased at all to me - Just a simple statement of how our political system is currently running. Lots of rah-rah and finger-pointing, and very little calm, reasoned analysis of a problem to arrive at a good decision. The problem is that as soon as someone tries to be calm and reasoned, someone from the other party points a finger on them and says they're soft on terror/soft on crime/harming the children/have no regard for public safety/yadda yadda yadda. And that goes for both parties.
Click to expand...

Lemme guess -- NPR isn't "biased" either?

:skeptical:

Sorry -- there's a bit of buy in to a particular point of view to accept the leap from "sleeping controllers" to:

"current rhetoric of "greedy/lazy public sector workers"
Click to expand...
 
I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said that. I do think there's a terrible trend among politicians to engage in outrage and manipulation of the facts to achieve a pre-determined political goal, rather than do sound public policy based on data. But this isn't the place to have brought it up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top