SkyWest crew refuses to allow autistic pax to sit near family — walk off plane when questioned

wsuffa said:
BTW, the airline involved is SkyWest, not Delta. May have been a Delta flight number, but in the end SkyWest is responsible.
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I respectfully disagree. The photo below is from SkyWest's website. If a SkyWest logo is there, it's small enough to be trivial.

A customer purchases a Delta ticket on the Delta website, and flies on a plane covered inside and out in Delta logos. He/she knows no difference. Delta owns and regulates the brand experience, has a department and VP of "Customer Experience Integration".

Joe Blow doesn't know or care if the burger he bought comes from a company owned store or a franchise -- he forked out 9 bucks for a McDonald's hamburger experience.

In the end, Delta owns this one, and SkyWest is hearing about it.

DL176.jpg


Oh, and when I had a customer service fiasco experience while sitting on a Comair flight and called their customer service number, they told me to call Delta.
 
tspear said:
@ElPaso Pilot
Back in the early 2000s I was 100K flier for three years in a row. Otherwise, I generally fly commercially about five trips a year for close to thirty years (until this year, I am up to close to fifteen commercial trips). So, the question is, how often do the airlines actually bump the seats when you book direct?

Tim
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Am a current 100K flier, and in my experience it happens occasionally. I lost an assigned 1st class upgrade seat earlier this year and had to sit in the back of the bus when my connection arrived late and I showed up as the doors were closing. The dude who got my seat was happily enjoying his pre-flight cocktail as I walked passed him.
 
You're presuming that there's a difference based on how you bought your ticket. More likely it involves fare class. A seat assignment is no guarantee. They can overbook individual seats. The second person to checkin doesn't get a boarding pass. Then the games begin.
 
wsuffa said:
https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/passengers-disabilities

BTW, the airline involved is SkyWest, not Delta. May have been a Delta flight number, but in the end SkyWest is responsible. Putting that aside, one can get badly treated on any of the majors - AA, DL, UA, and WN, as well as the other carriers. I've seen in in my years of airline flying. UA remains on my **** list over an incident that happened maybe 25 years ago.
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I ride UA a bunch every year. I avoid DL like the plague as I have NEVER in over 40 years of riding the airlines had adequate legroom in cattle car on DL. Not once. E+ makes up for a lot of other errors by UA.
 
Ghery said:
I ride UA a bunch every year. I avoid DL like the plague as I have NEVER in over 40 years of riding the airlines had adequate legroom in cattle car on DL. Not once. E+ makes up for a lot of other errors by UA.
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I went to Africa this May, and had PLENTY of room in Delta, and I'm 6'3 200. Of course, I paid for the exit row and had about 8 feet between my seat and the bulkhead wall.
 
The crew used really bad judgement, but it isn't their collective "fault". The COO who is responsible for systems, contingencies and employee training... should be taken to the woodshed. Many times over the years people would make a snide remark about why my son who wasn't helping lift the groceries or open a door for someone... I don't blame them really as my son looks "normal" at first glance... but these situations like the one above are way outnumbered by fabulous people who can sense something isn't quite right and offer to help my son out in life's challenges.

People are awesome, thoughtful creatures. In this day and age we are way too focused on the tiny group(s) who are somehow getting all the Press. These small groups really don't know what real problems are.
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
Probably is, but as a frequent business flier I’ve seen similar wacky FA behavior on occasion.

I no longer fly Delta after an “inconceivable” event.

(I just saw a FA loudly exert control last week when a pax moved from a middle seat to an empty aisle seat just in front of her after the doors closed. There was no way the FA was going to let that happen, and she let the whole plane know about that woman’s transgression. Pax inadvertently moved from “basic economy” to “premium economy”)
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Sorry, but passengers are getting more and more obnoxious, too. There are only rows of premium economy on AA, so I doubt she moved from a middle seat to a premium seat (with more leg room in the same row?). I bet she moved when passengers were told NOT to move, ie during taxi and takeoff.

Just do what you're told. It's not that hard.
 
[/QUOTE]
luvflyin said:
It doesn't say what the pilots position was. He refers to the"...pilot/flight attendant..." It's possible that his decision was based on having an outta control cabin based on the FA's behavior, so cancelled the flight. Just one of many possibilities. Who knows.
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After reading this, I am 100% with the flight crew:
Some of you may know that my younger brother has autism spectrum disorder. He is essentially nonverbal, making him unable to express himself oftentimes. He suffers from OCD, sensory overload, and many other symptoms that can make air travel particularly difficult for him. For his safety and the safety of those around him, it is important that he sit with a family member on flights.

We boarded the plane and easily found a nice woman sitting one row away who was willing to switch seats. Problem solved.

The flight attendant became upset and demanded my brother move back to his original seat. We explained to her that he has special needs and that this small accommodation would be necessary, however she continued to raise hell about passengers switching seats.
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This is clearly a case of buying the cheapest seats, making no attempt beforehand to make sure your situation would be what you require, and then expecting the world to revolve around you once you got on the plane. Sorry. Claiming bigotry and everything else she does in the post only reinforces this opinion. She didn't say their seats had changed and were no longer together. Which means they likely bought Basic Economy on Delta, which means no seat assignments. Or they knew they were separated to begin with. If "for his safety and the safety of those around him, it is important that he sit with a family member on flights," it is incumbent upon YOU to make tose arrangements ahead of time, even if it means (gasp!) paying the $35 to buy the tickets over the phone.

If you need special accommodations, make them ahead of time. Don't expect the world to make an exception for you. This is nobody's fault but the person who wrote this Facebook post.
 
This is clearly a case of buying the cheapest seats, making no attempt beforehand to make sure your situation would be what you require, and then expecting the world to revolve around you once you got on the plane. Sorry. Claiming bigotry and everything else she does in the post only reinforces this opinion. She didn't say their seats had changed and were no longer together. Which means they likely bought Basic Economy on Delta, which means no seat assignments. Or they knew they were separated to begin with. If "for his safety and the safety of those around him, it is important that he sit with a family member on flights," it is incumbent upon YOU to make tose arrangements ahead of time, even if it means (gasp!) paying the $35 to buy the tickets over the phone.

If you need special accommodations, make them ahead of time. Don't expect the world to make an exception for you. This is nobody's fault but the person who wrote this Facebook post.[/QUOTE]

Actually, I put some blame on the airline industry. You make some good points, but they come from experience and knowing the system. The reality is the percentage of the population which has flown enough on a regular basis to know such things is rather limited.
Note: I do not have a solution for this lack of knowledge....

Tim
 
Don't expect the world to make an exception for you. This is nobody's fault but the person who wrote this Facebook post.
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Eh? The people didn't expect anything. Did you read the article? A passenger offered to exchange seats when they realized that the family was split. I'd have probably done the same.
I'd be making loud noises on social media and in the corporate emails if the crew threw a hissy fit at my offer as well.
 
The most important thing I learned in upgrade school a year and a half ago is always call the CRO!
 
tspear said:
Actually, I put some blame on the airline industry. You make some good points, but they come from experience and knowing the system. The reality is the percentage of the population which has flown enough on a regular basis to know such things is rather limited.
Note: I do not have a solution for this lack of knowledge....

Tim
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There’s a very simple solution. Walk up to the gate agent and say, “Excuse me...My brother is autistic and needs to sit next to me. I didn’t realize when I bought my tickets that we would be separated. Is there something we can do to change that?”

They invented questions for the specific purpose of gaining knowledge.
 
MauleSkinner said:
There’s a very simple solution. Walk up to the gate agent and say, “Excuse me...My brother is autistic and needs to sit next to me. I didn’t realize when I bought my tickets that we would be separated. Is there something we can do to change that?”

They invented questions for the specific purpose of gaining knowledge.
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Presumably they asked someone as someone offered to switch seats....
 
Salty said:
Presumably they asked someone as someone offered to switch seats....
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...which indicates to me that they figured if they talked to an airline person about it, they’d have to pay the extra.

I’m with @tspear ...they were putting $35 over the brother’s well being.
 
MauleSkinner said:
...which indicates to me that they figured if they talked to an airline person about it, they’d have to pay the extra.

I’m with @tspear ...they were putting $35 over the brother’s well being.
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That's an unfair assumption and not really even relevant anyway. Someone volunteered to switch. How do you rationalize a third party objecting to that?
 
Salty said:
That's an unfair assumption and not really even relevant anyway. Someone volunteered to switch. How do you rationalize a third party objecting to that?
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This ceased to be about someone’s willingness to switch seats when it became “news”worthy.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I do take issue with this part...

I seriously doubt that anyone was aware of the risks involved if there was a problem on takeoff.
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Unless you know the risk mitigations involved, I don’t think you have any particular qualification to make that statement, so I’ll take it as you probably intended it...your opinion. And now I'll put a happy face here so everyone knows I'm joking... :)
 
MauleSkinner said:
I do take issue with this part...

I seriously doubt that anyone was aware of the risks involved if there was a problem on takeoff.
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From my manual:

“No person is denied transportation on Company flights except where such carriage would compromise safety of the flight, is in violation of Federal Aviation Regulations, or does not comply with the requirements of Delta Airlines Domestic General Rules No. DGR-1, Rule 35. Contact the station to locate the station CRO. If the station
CRO is not on duty, contact the manager on duty in OCC for further guidance. No passenger with a disability will be removed from the aircraft without prior consultation with a CRO.”

It’s a sucky situation but if that kid couldn’t sit down in his own seat, he’d have to be removed.
There’s no way the parents can hold the child in their lap. You have to have your own seat when you’re over 2 years old. Wonder if there’s any way around because the FAs knowingly broke a FAR by letting the parents hold their child. Any insight @ARFlyer ?
 
Lowflynjack said:
Unless you know the risk mitigations involved, I don’t think you have any particular qualification to make that statement, so I’ll take it as you probably intended it...your opinion. And now I'll put a happy face here so everyone knows I'm joking... :)
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True... I have no idea what mitigation was put in place for telling the world that a flight crew violated FARs.
 
jordane93 said:
From my manual:

“No person is denied transportation on Company flights except where such carriage would compromise safety of the flight, is in violation of Federal Aviation Regulations, or does not comply with the requirements of Delta Airlines Domestic General Rules No. DGR-1, Rule 35. Contact the station to locate the station CRO. If the station
CRO is not on duty, contact the manager on duty in OCC for further guidance. No passenger with a disability will be removed from the aircraft without prior consultation with a CRO.”

It’s a sucky situation but if that kid couldn’t sit down in his own seat, he’d have to be removed.
There’s no way the parents can hold the child in their lap. You have to have your own seat when you’re over 2 years old. Wonder if there’s any way around because the FAs knowingly broke a FAR by letting the parents hold their child. Any insight @ARFlyer ?
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I’m guessing it would be, “Good job taking care of the customer, but don’t ever violate FARs to do it again.”
 
MauleSkinner said:
I’m guessing it would be, “Good job taking care of the customer, but don’t ever violate FARs to do it again.”
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I was asking from an FAA inspector point of view. I’m thinking there’s no way that would slide if an inspector was on board.
 
jordane93 said:
I was asking from an FAA inspector point of view. I’m thinking there’s no way that would slide if an inspector was on board.
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I agree...but I would say the same response from the FAA after the fact would be a possibility. I’m also assuming this would be a self-disclosure by the company.

And yes, it would be more involved than the sentence I made up, but the effect would be the same.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I’m guessing it would be, “Good job taking care of the customer, but don’t ever violate FARs to do it again.”
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And that's the problem we face. The crew who broke the rules is seen as doing the right thing and the crew who followed the rules is bashed. I understand one is probably a company rule and the other is a law.

If the family knew this was an issue, why did they accept a flight where they knew they couldn't sit together. Were they just hoping someone would trade them seats?

I've never understood not letting people change seats. I flew to San Jose on Monday and there was a whole row that was empty in coach. A guy casually got up and moved to one of those seats once we were in the air and the flight attendant made him move back. I understand if you're moving from coach to first class, but this was coach to coach. Maybe someone can explain.
 
Lowflynjack said:
And that's the problem we face. The crew who broke the rules is seen as doing the right thing and the crew who followed the rules is bashed. I understand one is probably a company rule and the other is a law.

If the family knew this was an issue, why did they accept a flight where they knew they couldn't sit together. Were they just hoping someone would trade them seats?

I've never understood not letting people change seats. I flew to San Jose on Monday and there was a whole row that was empty in coach. A guy casually got up and moved to one of those seats once we were in the air and the flight attendant made him move back. I understand if you're moving from coach to first class, but this was coach to coach. Maybe someone can explain.
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“The load manifest we filed before takeoff has you sitting in that seat. The junior programmer who wrote the software establishes company policy. I can’t change that.”
 
MauleSkinner said:
“The load manifest we filed before takeoff has you sitting in that seat. The junior programmer who wrote the software establishes company policy. I can’t change that.”
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Just seems strange. Southwest lets you sit anywhere.
 
Lowflynjack said:
Just seems strange. Southwest lets you sit anywhere.
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They let you sit anywhere...but once they walk through with their iPad and tell it which seats have adult males, adult females, or children, do they let you randomly change?

Maybe this all happened after the load manifest was submitted.
 
Lowflynjack said:
I've never understood not letting people change seats. I flew to San Jose on Monday and there was a whole row that was empty in coach. A guy casually got up and moved to one of those seats once we were in the air and the flight attendant made him move back. I understand if you're moving from coach to first class, but this was coach to coach. Maybe someone can explain.
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Best guess; the empty row was some sort of premium seats. e.g. the "even more space" or "economy plus"....

Tim
 
MauleSkinner said:
They let you sit anywhere...but once they walk through with their iPad and tell it which seats have adult males, adult females, or children, do they let you randomly change?
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Good question, probably not. I didn't think of that.

tspear said:
Best guess; the empty row was some sort of premium seats. e.g. the "even more space" or "economy plus"....Tim
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Didn't think of that either! It was a row at the front of coach, so probably did have more room. Funny thing is, when I booked my flight, I got the last empty seat. I might have upgraded to one with a little more room.
 
As a frequent flier, my heart lies with the crew because I see a lot of passengers take advantage of the system, blah... but, I also see tons of passengers legitimately confused by the pricing schemes.

I have witnessed the Airlines game the system to maximize revenues and profits... if I owned Airline stocks (I do not) I would want the Airline(s) to push extra baggage fees, legroom premiums, cancellation penalties, continued service class segregation, etc... we have all heard the stories about two people sitting next to each other and one guy pays $450, and the other $2,750... I have been on both ends many times. As a passenger, I loathe the Airlines, but, I do love and appreciate the Crew...

Whether or not the passengers tried to game the system (played ignorant or worse - the sympathy card) and save a few bucks... or not... it is VERY CLEAR that the Airline employees should have a relief valve in their policies & systems to make an exception for traveling families. For the good of the entire passenger roster, Crew and profits. The Airline did not make money on the flight and imagine now the lawyers passing out business cards to the traveling family? there will no doubt be a lawsuit and the Airline will be forced into Court defending their ironclad policies in front of a jury... This will be settled for a huge sum ASAP... remember the guy dragged off the plane bleeding ? You don't hear from him anymore, he probably bought a private island somewhere with his winnings and he was found to --- not be a Saint...

The Airline failed to be the adult in the room, the Airline failed to provide a relief valve exception in their ops manual to make a simple exception. If I were Judge Judy, I would find for the family and call out the COO who allowed his/her poor employees (the Crew) to hang out there in the wind in the public square with no way to make an on the spot decision. There were three victims in this saga; the family, the Crew and the fellow passengers.
 
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jordane93 said:
From my manual:

“No person is denied transportation on Company flights except where such carriage would compromise safety of the flight, is in violation of Federal Aviation Regulations, or does not comply with the requirements of Delta Airlines Domestic General Rules No. DGR-1, Rule 35. Contact the station to locate the station CRO. If the station
CRO is not on duty, contact the manager on duty in OCC for further guidance. No passenger with a disability will be removed from the aircraft without prior consultation with a CRO.”

It’s a sucky situation but if that kid couldn’t sit down in his own seat, he’d have to be removed.
There’s no way the parents can hold the child in their lap. You have to have your own seat when you’re over 2 years old. Wonder if there’s any way around because the FAs knowingly broke a FAR by letting the parents hold their child. Any insight @ARFlyer ?
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Yes it’s a possible violation of 121.311(b)(1). That’s one of those situations I would never want to come across. Your basically stuck between damned if you do and damned if you don’t in so so many ways.

Lowflynjack said:
Just seems strange. Southwest lets you sit anywhere.
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It all depends on the size and how that airline does W&B. The CRJ we just listed everyone as adults unless we needed the wiggle room in a 200. All I’d get from the FA was a Adult/Child count for each of the 5 weight zones. Plug that in and see what it says. Sometimes you’d get a 2 passengers from A need to go to D or you need 1 from A to D or 300lbs of a ballast message.
 
flyingron said:
Eh? The people didn't expect anything. Did you read the article? A passenger offered to exchange seats when they realized that the family was split. I'd have probably done the same.
I'd be making loud noises on social media and in the corporate emails if the crew threw a hissy fit at my offer as well.
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They are clearly experienced flyers reading her post. I don’t ask other passengers to solve my known problem after boarding. I ask the airline about it beforehand.
 
MauleSkinner said:
...which indicates to me that they figured if they talked to an airline person about it, they’d have to pay the extra.

I’m with @tspear ...they were putting $35 over the brother’s well being.
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There are quite a few assumptions being made here. Was the flight in question a connecting flight? Was their previous flight delayed? Was their previous flight delayed enough that they missed their original connecting flight and needed to be switched onto a different connecting flight at the last minute? When my wife and I travel together, we always check in early and always book seats together. We do all the things you're supposed to do to make that happen like asking the gate agent to try to seat us together, asking the gate agent if purchasing an upgrade will allow that happen etc and yet we still sometimes end up on flights where we're not seated together. I guess we're just cheap and lazy and its always our own fault if we're not seated together though. :rolleyes:
 
mryan75 said:
They are clearly experienced flyers reading her post. I don’t ask other passengers to solve my known problem after boarding. I ask the airline about it beforehand.
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And there are times when that doesn't work. If all of the seats have been assigned boarding passes, what is the airline going to do? Move someone with status out of their assigned seat so a family can sit together? I can imagine the hell that frequent flyer would raise. If this family had tried to sit themselves in an unoccupied higher cost seat without asking and then raised a stink when the crew complained I would be 100% on the side of the crew. But if another passenger is willing to give up their seat, what is the problem?
 
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