SkyWest crew refuses to allow autistic pax to sit near family — walk off plane when questioned

ElPaso Pilot

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ElPaso Pilot
Odd, if as reported.

Passenger is non-verbal. Fellow passenger already agreed to switch seats and resolved situation amongst themselves.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ommodate-traveler-autism-now-they-ve-n1043996

A man says crew members on a SkyWest Airlines flight refused to allow his brother with autism to sit near a family member Friday and walked off the plane, forcing all 75 passengers to deplane and board another flight three hours later.

Now, the crew, including the pilots, have been grounded while the airline investigates the incident.
 
waiting for the rest of the story...... let’s see the Facebook Live post.
 
I'm not sure why this is news. I thought that the new expectation, after David Dao, is that if the airline doesn't summon security to beat you and drag you off, then your boarding went as well as can be hoped for.
 
Sounds like someone on the crew didn’t want to fly that day and chose to unnecessarily escalate a normal occurrence into a security threat. Flight attendants are getting more and more whacko. The captain should have resolved it by putting the FA in her place.
 
I’m sure there is a lot more to the story....

And its not up to an airport security rent a cop to tell the captain what is and isn’t a security issue on his airplane.
 
I don’t know that you can blame the pilot in this. If the FA was refusing to fly unless he booted the family, he didn’t have much choice than to stop the flight. It could simply have been one person being obstinate. Or there could be more to the story..... it seems inconceivable that anyone in their right mind would object to passengers switching seats voluntarily.
 
I don’t know that you can blame the pilot in this.

Well, allegedly he packed his flight bag and walked out of the airport, stranding a plane load of passengers after he couldn’t resolve a minor situation. None of them would have made their connections, either.

I could blame the pilot if that’s what actually happened.
 
Or there could be more to the story..... it seems inconceivable that anyone in their right mind would object to passengers switching seats voluntarily.

Probably is, but as a frequent business flier I’ve seen similar wacky FA behavior on occasion.

I no longer fly Delta after an “inconceivable” event.

(I just saw a FA loudly exert control last week when a pax moved from a middle seat to an empty aisle seat just in front of her after the doors closed. There was no way the FA was going to let that happen, and she let the whole plane know about that woman’s transgression. Pax inadvertently moved from “basic economy” to “premium economy”)
 
Looks like Pontius "Pilot" was at the helm on that flight.... see what I did there? :rofl::raspberry::D

Jest aside, what a derelict.

Guess he got tired of "living da dreaaaaam!!!" :D
 
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It doesn't say what the pilots position was. He refers to the"...pilot/flight attendant..." It's possible that his decision was based on having an outta control cabin based on the FA's behavior, so cancelled the flight. Just one of many possibilities. Who knows.
 
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Sounds like someone on the crew didn’t want to fly that day and chose to unnecessarily escalate a normal occurrence into a security threat. Flight attendants are getting more and more whacko. The captain should have resolved it by putting the FA in her place.

And risk not getting to bang her on leg 2 of the trip?
 
I will wait to comment (if I comment at all) until hearing the rest of the story.

But on the FB post linked above, this comment strikes me as odd:

"My mother, sister, brother and I got to the gate and found out that our seats were all separated."

"Found out" their seats were separated when they got to the gate? That presumably means that they didn't have seat assignments. I would think that if I was traveling with a special-needs family member, I would pay the extra to have a designated seat for us. Instead, it sounds like they were hoping to get lucky, or hope that someone would trade seats, or hope that they could force the airline to put them together. "Hope is not a plan".

I don't know if Delta on their reservation site has a way to identify that you are traveling with a special needs individual, but some do. If they didn't use that feature and didn't reserve seats, then regardless of everything that happened afterward, what were they thinking?
 
Hard to say what the real story is...except Delta is one airline I wouldn't mind seeing go under based on the way I was treated by them more than ten years ago.

But please, if the special needs guy wasn't upset at that time and it took being separated to get the flight to fly...path of least resistance and all.

The key term in the fb post was autism spectrum, which really is a VERY broad brush.
 
I only see it as a problem if he was seated on the exit row.

Does thr FA have the authority to prevent the flight over this?
 
I only see it as a problem if he was seated on the exit row.

Does thr FA have the authority to prevent the flight over this?
If the person is not eligible to sit in the exit row (under 15 years old, doesn’t speak English, etc) then we can’t leave until that person is out of the seat. There’s no exceptions.

Not saying this happened in this situation but I see some FAs in power trips and captains that back them up even if they’re in the wrong. I’ve heard captains brief the FAs that if they have a problem in the back, call us, and we’ll remove the person. No, that’s not how things work. The FAs aren’t always right. Delta puts a lot of stress on customer service/experience so you better have a damn good reason to remove the person. Also be prepared to make it to YouTube.
 
Has it been established that the autistic passenger was trying to sit in an exit row?
 
I retired recently, before that I traveled extensively throughout my career, Asia, Europe, West Coast mainly. I would say that I am a traveling pro and as such I have gotten to know many Flight Attendants, Booking personnel and Pilots. They have extremely difficult, "dealing with the public" jobs and often times passengers go out of their way to make their difficult jobs insanely difficult. My heart lies with the crews honestly. With that said, and speaking as a father of a 27 year old Special Needs adult, and after reviewing the short story above, the fault in this case lies with one person - read on.

The first major mistake was made by the Booking Agent. The booking agent should have figured almost immediately that changes to the seating arrangements needed to be made, seeking out volunteers way before the flight boarded. Believe me, there would be many volunteers who would move their seats if the Booking Agent explained the situation on a volunteer basis. I was approached recently to change seats for a Cancer patient/relative. No problem. People are generally reasonable.

Failing that first critical filter, the Flight Attendant totally failed and made thing super worse, embarrassing the family and creating needless panic among the Special Needs Adult. People with special needs generally cannot deal with change. Hell, many "normal travelers" go insane because of travel pressures. It isn't a fun process for anyone. Imagine the angst and surrounding vibes of the nervous travelers that Special Needs adult felt?

Flight Attendants, generally speaking, don't get paid until the door closes, i.e. until all passengers and baggage are stowed. The terrible feeling the family was going through after "Airlines Systems #1" failure was acute... I've been there, it sucks. Only to be confronted by "Airlines Systems #2" failure... and finally, the Pilot (Airlines System #3), who was probably making political points (union or otherwise) by supporting #2... was the coup de grace. Giving the Pilot the benefit of the doubt here, perhaps the Pilot was reacting to the Special Needs adult screaming or having a panic attack. It is common and if I were the pilot, I would have to move the passenger off the plane too. Not sure if this happened or not.

Who is at fault here? The Exec who is in charge of the Airline's systems. The Airlines COO should be spanked for not thinking of this common contingency especially with the explosion of Anxiety and Autism our society. With systems comes employee training and someone within the employee chain #1 - #3 would have solved the issue prior to boarding if the system was in place. Not unlike making special boarding provisions for "people who need extra help or people with young children".

Poor Family, Poor fellow passengers, Stupid COO.
 
@AGLyme

My travel experience is not as vast. Further I have only traveled with friends who have special needs kids and/or adults.

Step 0. Family buys tickets with assigned seats direct with the airline; placing said special needs adult in the most appropriate seating position.
Step 0A. If "emergency" purchase (as in for family/health/death reasons), tell the check in agent. Multiple airlines will then call a super visor and start working the issue while you walk to the gate.

Step 0 and 0A have done more to resolve and prevent any of the issues you raised than anything else I have seen.

Tim
 
I will wait to comment (if I comment at all) until hearing the rest of the story.

But on the FB post linked above, this comment strikes me as odd:

"My mother, sister, brother and I got to the gate and found out that our seats were all separated."

"Found out" their seats were separated when they got to the gate? That presumably means that they didn't have seat assignments. I would think that if I was traveling with a special-needs family member, I would pay the extra to have a designated seat for us. Instead, it sounds like they were hoping to get lucky, or hope that someone would trade seats, or hope that they could force the airline to put them together. "Hope is not a plan".

I don't know if Delta on their reservation site has a way to identify that you are traveling with a special needs individual, but some do. If they didn't use that feature and didn't reserve seats, then regardless of everything that happened afterward, what were they thinking?

Charging someone with special needs extra money to have adjacent seating with a caregiver/family member is absolutely discrimination. You have a plane with lots of seats, putting 2 or 3 people together should be the simplest task of your day.

If the family didn't make airline employees aware and just hoped to meet volunteers, well, that's just idiocy. If they made everyone involved aware, and this happened, those airline employees should get some sort of punishment for being d*cks.

I have an autistic child, I don't think I would put him or myself through the horror that is commercial flying, but everyone doesn't think like I do.
 
Charging someone with special needs extra money to have adjacent seating with a caregiver/family member is absolutely discrimination.

Having no experience with this, and having not researched it, I will defer to you - I am not qualified to determine whether this is legal or not.

If the family didn't make airline employees aware and just hoped to meet volunteers, well, that's just idiocy. If they made everyone involved aware, and this happened, those airline employees should get some sort of punishment for being d*cks.

I have an autistic child, I don't think I would put him or myself through the horror that is commercial flying, but everyone doesn't think like I do.

I assume, with you having an autistic child, that if you traveled on the airlines, you would do one of the following reasonable actions:
1. Pay for assigned seats to ensure you're together.
2. Select the box on the booking site that says "special needs", if there is one.
3. If there isn't one, contact the airline ahead of time and make them aware of the situation.

Since the FB post on this event doesn't mention them doing any of these things, I will presume that they did none of them, as they would certainly have posted about how they pre-arranged things and THEN had all the problems. That would be a main focus of the post.

Please note - I am NOT commenting on any of the other issues or appropriateness of their or the flight crew's actions. And I'm not blaming the family involved. We don't know enough for all that. I'm simply discussing one unusual (to me) part of the whole situation.
 
Please note - I am NOT commenting on any of the other issues or appropriateness of their or the flight crew's actions. And I'm not blaming the family involved. We don't know enough for all that. I'm simply discussing one unusual (to me) part of the whole situation.
But when a passenger offers to swap seats to people can sit together, throwing a hissy fit over it is neither proper nor mature.
 
Tim,
When we travel with our William... we do all that you stated.
Either the family did not buy a co-joining seat (seat booked later) to save money, or, the plane was out of the class of seat at booking... or, for whatever reason the man was "bumped". It happens...

My son now travels on Amtrak from New London CT to Providence RI for a class in Providence (he is met at the Train Station by fabulous people), and then he travels back on the same day... all by himself. The Amtrak pros are unbelievably kind and protective. More than once we get calls that William forgot his wallet or phone... a small price to pay on the road to eventual (we hope) independence.
 
I assume, with you having an autistic child, that if you traveled on the airlines, you would do one of the following reasonable actions:
1. Pay for assigned seats to ensure you're together.
2. Select the box on the booking site that says "special needs", if there is one.
3. If there isn't one, contact the airline ahead of time and make them aware of the situation

Absolutely, to numbers 2 and 3. I would probably pay extra for seat location, but it shouldn't be a requirement for someone with special needs.
 
From the original article below. Not unusual to get seat assignments bumped if they were hung up at Customs and boarded late.

They were among the last people to board the flight because a U.S. Customs and Border Protection computer outage caused hours-long delays at airports Friday
 
But when a passenger offers to swap seats to people can sit together, throwing a hissy fit over it is neither proper nor mature.

Really don’t understand this. The last time this was needed by a family, I happily helped out. And even got free drinks for it from the FAs.
 
Maybe the title of the thread could be changed to put the blame where it belongs - on Delta.
 
From the original article below. Not unusual to get seat assignments bumped if they were hung up at Customs and boarded late.

They were among the last people to board the flight because a U.S. Customs and Border Protection computer outage caused hours-long delays at airports Friday

I knew I smelled brown shirts. Doesn't surprise me one bit those clowns had their monkey in that circus. Like clockwork.
 
Tim,
When we travel with our William... we do all that you stated.
Either the family did not buy a co-joining seat (seat booked later) to save money, or, the plane was out of the class of seat at booking... or, for whatever reason the man was "bumped". It happens...

My son now travels on Amtrak from New London CT to Providence RI for a class in Providence (he is met at the Train Station by fabulous people), and then he travels back on the same day... all by himself. The Amtrak pros are unbelievably kind and protective. More than once we get calls that William forgot his wallet or phone... a small price to pay on the road to eventual (we hope) independence.

Very cool on his independence.

Tim
 
From the original article below. Not unusual to get seat assignments bumped if they were hung up at Customs and boarded late.

They were among the last people to board the flight because a U.S. Customs and Border Protection computer outage caused hours-long delays at airports Friday

Curious where you see seat assignments bumped when booked directly with the airline? If through third party, sure happens all the time. In fact just happened to my wife and I on our last two flights.
But when booking direct? I have never seen it happen, or heard of it happening.

Tim
 
Curious where you see seat assignments bumped when booked directly with the airline? If through third party, sure happens all the time. In fact just happened to my wife and I on our last two flights.
But when booking direct? I have never seen it happen, or heard of it happening.

Tim

That’s easy. Show up late to the gate.

Here’s American’s condition of carriage, in surprisingly plain English.

https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-service/support/conditions-of-carriage.jsp

Arriving at the gate
Be at the gate and ready to board the plane:

  • 15 minutes before departure on domestic flights
  • 30 minutes before departure for international flights
If you're not, we may reassign your seat to another passenger.
 
But when booking direct? I have never seen it happen, or heard of it happening.
Sure, it happens. You don't even have to show up late. You go to check in and poof "there's a problem". You don't get a boarding pass. The only times it has happened to me is when there was an equipment change and all the seats needed to be reassigned.

The weird one last time is I was checking a bag at one of those kiosks and "see agent" comes up. I figure, crap. They've oversold. Turns out I sort of got reverse bumped. There was a direct flight leaving at the same time and they'd reassigned me to it. Got in faster than if I'd made the one I'd booked.
 
Having no experience with this, and having not researched it, I will defer to you - I am not qualified to determine whether this is legal or not.



I assume, with you having an autistic child, that if you traveled on the airlines, you would do one of the following reasonable actions:
1. Pay for assigned seats to ensure you're together.
2. Select the box on the booking site that says "special needs", if there is one.
3. If there isn't one, contact the airline ahead of time and make them aware of the situation.
I sometimes travel with a couple where the husband has Parkinson's. As far as I can determine, they are always able to get an aisle seat for him with her in the next seat, without charge, even when the airline normally charges for a preassigned seat.
 
https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/passengers-disabilities

BTW, the airline involved is SkyWest, not Delta. May have been a Delta flight number, but in the end SkyWest is responsible. Putting that aside, one can get badly treated on any of the majors - AA, DL, UA, and WN, as well as the other carriers. I've seen in in my years of airline flying. UA remains on my **** list over an incident that happened maybe 25 years ago.
 
@ElPaso Pilot

Of course it is in the agreement. That is basically required by any descent lawyer. I was more asking in practice how often.

@flyingron

And you made my point. Equipment change where the airline has to re-assign everyone is not that common. Airlines have pretty standard layouts, so unless a plane type is also being switched the chance that you will get a new seat is rather low.

---------------
Back in the early 2000s I was 100K flier for three years in a row. Otherwise, I generally fly commercially about five trips a year for close to thirty years (until this year, I am up to close to fifteen commercial trips). So, the question is, how often do the airlines actually bump the seats when you book direct?

Tim
 
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