Skydiving Airport

Then I am at a loss as to why they were assigned it.
 
As I recall, 123.0 was originally a Unicom frequency for towered fields so you could call the FBO to arrange rental car or whatever.

Who remembers when sectional charts just said "U1" or "U2" instead of the actual frequency?
 
EdFred said:
Gillette, WY had a tower until last year, and I think VUO did. @Pilawt probably can answer that one.
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VUO is kind of a unique situation, being two miles from the approach end of a busy runway of a Class C airport.

2012 chart:

VUO_local_130626.jpg

In the late 1990s a Class D area was established, though Pearson did not have a tower. Pearson arrivals and departures were required to contact "Pearson Advisory", a dedicated position in the PDX tower whose job was to give wake turbulence advisories and, workload permitting, call out traffic. Once the initial call was done and the advisory given, pilots just self-announced in the pattern just like any other uncontrolled airport. ATC did not sequence Pearson traffic or issue takeoff or landing clearances.

In 2012 a runway renovation project at PDX put all of the jet traffic onto 10L/28R, right over Pearson. FAA commissioned a temporary tower at Pearson. It worked very well. It had the added benefit of reducing the number of RAs in jets on the PDX 10L approach, caused by opposite-direction traffic legally in the VUO pattern. The VUO community loved the tower, the controllers who worked there liked it, and all concerned asked FAA to make the tower permanent. No dice. Pearson Tower closed one year to the day after it opened, and the airspace reverted to a towerless Class D.

VUO_250000.jpg

A few years ago FAA redesignated the VUO Class D as Class E with a Part 93 SFRA, though the procedures remained exactly the same as before.

Screen Shot 2021-06-17 at 4.24.10 PM.jpg
 
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EdFred said:
About CTAFs....

I pulled the 5010 data this morning. There are actually a few public use airports without control towers in the 48 CONUS that aren't in the 122.7-123.075 range.
I also ran totals on the number of times each CTAF frequency is used in the 48 CONUS

118.1 - 1
118.325 - 1
118.5 - 1
119 - 1
122.7 - 359
122.725 - 63
122.775 - 1
122.8 - 1395
122.825 - 1
122.85 - 3
122.9 - 1502
122.95 - 8
122.975 - 47
123 - 366
123.05 - 115
123.075 - 55
123.3 - 1
123.6 - 6
126.2 - 1
126.6 - 1
128.25 - 4
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I wonder if you can pull this for a state...like Georgia. On 122.8 on weekends in North Georgia @ 3,000ft, I can hear people clear on the other side of Atlanta, not to mention all the north side 122.8s. It is crazy and not to mention has to be impacting safety. You would think the FAA would space some of those out geography wise, but i guess with the volume of airports in this area, it may be impractical.
 
If the frequency is changed, there will be an ongoing problem with dumb pilots who will call on 123.0 or 122.8 just because they think those are the standards. Many do not really look at the sectional to see.

The FAA seems to think that is a reason to keep the 'Standard' frequencies in as many airports as possible.
 
scarcherpilot said:
I wonder if you can pull this for a state...like Georgia. On 122.8 on weekends in North Georgia @ 3,000ft, I can hear people clear on the other side of Atlanta, not to mention all the north side 122.8s. It is crazy and not to mention has to be impacting safety. You would think the FAA would space some of those out geography wise, but i guess with the volume of airports in this area, it may be impractical.
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When planes transmit on the same frequency at two airports at the same time, the signals from the airport where you're located will be stronger than those from the more distant one. This causes the receiver to automatically turn down its gain enough to prevent the weaker signal from interfering with the stronger one. For this reason, I was taught that you can go ahead and transmit when you hear a signal from a distant airport, since your signal will not be strong enough to prevent planes in the pattern at the distant airport from hearing each other. This is also one reason why it's important to say the name of the airport where you're located at both the beginning and end of each transmission.

This would not apply when two airports on the same frequency are right next to each other. For example, TSP and L94 are only about two miles apart, and they're both on 123.0 MHz. (It makes sense for them to be on the same frequency because when they're that close together, traffic for either airport could be a factor for traffic at the other.)

https://skyvector.com/?ll=35.119136302856155,-118.43158721544951&chart=301&zoom=1
 
The problem the jump plane has is that at 10,000+ feet the CTAF frequency becomes useless since so many transmissions are being received. It’s easy to miss calls from the center frequency because of all the noise.
When I was flying jumpers I would often have to turn off the CTAF above a certain altitude so I could hear center frequency and then just make a quick blind broadcast on CTAF prior to releasing jumpers.
 
KBXK (Buckeye AZ) and P19 (Stellar Airpark) are about 35 miles apart, well within VHF range, and both on 122.975. What makes it confusing is both have a single runway, 17/35. As @Palmpilot said, it's important to state the name of the airport at the beginning and end of each transmission.
 
Of course, when one of our local fields changed the CTAF, as far as the FAA was concerned, it wasn't important enough to tell anybody about.

I had looked at the CURRENT chart and I had gotten a standard briefing. Went flying and made a traffic report and someone gave me the new frequency. Went home and called FSS and this time specifically asked for NOTAMS for the airport and got none.
Went on to DUATS and found an obscure NOTAM announcing the PCL frequency had changed. Apparently, the FAA would take a NOTAM for that, but they wouldn't take one for the CTAF change.
 
Flying into fields with skydiving activity always makes me sit up a little straighter so to speak. Notams I have seen usually say something about parachute jumping with x radius of field rather than north/south/east/west which concerned me that a meat bomb could be in the traffic pattern. Then the jump planes bombing back down and i get why. It seems like the symbols on the charts provide some directional guidance on where to find former passengers in relation to the field but, I guess I never fully trusted that (not that I have ever fully trusted anything).
 
Eh? The parachute symbol provides no "directional guidance" it just is placed somewhere cartographically convenient next to the airport symbol.
 
Since winds are constantly shifting it's impossible to know where the jumpers will bail at. If you are monitoring the proper frequency far enough out you should know if there is potential confetti in the air. If so it's best to avoid the pattern until the jump plane lands. At that point it's pretty safe to assume all the divers are either on the ground or under canopy making them easier to spot. Also, there is at least one skydive place here local that doesn't announce on the CTAF listed on the charts. In the remarks section of the AFD they mention what frequency they announce on. I've gotten into a heated discussion with them about how bad of an idea this is but they feel the airport belongs to them and they do what they feel is best.
 
NoBShere said:
Flying into fields with skydiving activity always makes me sit up a little straighter so to speak. Notams I have seen usually say something about parachute jumping with x radius of field rather than north/south/east/west which concerned me that a meat bomb could be in the traffic pattern. Then the jump planes bombing back down and i get why. It seems like the symbols on the charts provide some directional guidance on where to find former passengers in relation to the field but, I guess I never fully trusted that (not that I have ever fully trusted anything).
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The heading the plane flys during jump run and how far offset from the airport they start coming out all depends on what winds aloft are doing. They might get out somewhere between the runway and the typical downwind area. They might get out 1/4 mile outside the typical downwind area. They might get out on the opposite side of the airport from the pattern.

It all just depends on winds aloft. But it also does not really matter at all as far as the traffic pattern goes because the jumpers should be under canopy by the time they're coming through 3000 if not sooner. Once under canopy, they fly their own pattern which is designed to keep them well clear of the standard traffic pattern. It doesn't mean you'll never encounter a wayward jumper who was blown off and/or inadequately controlling their approach path because it can and does happen. But that's no different than saying it doesn't mean you'll never got to an uncontrolled field and have some NORDO in an ultralight cut you off on base and proceed to land in the grass next to the runway. It happens so keep your eyes open.

The more important significance of the parachute symbol on the charts has to do with those who are transitioning the area rather than those who are inbound or outbound from the airport. If you're cruising along at 7500 VFR going from point a to point b, you don't want to pass anywhere closer than 5 miles from an airport with a parachute symbol IMO.
 
@Palmpilot

That used to be a good theory. But it fails in practice, especially since we now have many newer planes with 16watt systems versus the older 4, 8 or 10 watt transmitters. There is no way to know who has what, and therefore what will be missed when you step on someone. You could be 20 miles away and overpower that 4watt transmitter used by the J3 Cub.

The reality is the FAA needs to start moving airports to new frequencies.

Tim
 
tspear said:
@Palmpilot

That used to be a good theory. But it fails in practice, especially since we now have many newer planes with 16watt systems versus the older 4, 8 or 10 watt transmitters. There is no way to know who has what, and therefore what will be missed when you step on someone. You could be 20 miles away and overpower that 4watt transmitter used by the J3 Cub.

The reality is the FAA needs to start moving airports to new frequencies.

Tim
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A lot depends on the relative distances. Suppose all the planes in the pattern at that airport are within two miles of each other. The inverse-square law says that at 20 miles away you would need 400 watts to equal the power received from a 4 watt transmitter that was two miles away.

I'm not saying that more frequencies would be a bad thing, however.
 
My home field is on 122.725 which isn't heavily used, but I routinely hear pilots transmitting from 80 miles away.
 
Tools said:
The CTAF call is required two minutes prior.

that being said, it’s easy to forget, sometimes the freq is so clobbered you can’t hear, etc. and most of the rest of the flight they are on approach of some kind where a 1 min call is required.

my opinion is that it’s simply best to do wide straight in approaches and know the winds and drop zone to be safest.
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I don't know about forgetting, but I have sometimes found jump plane transmissions to be less reliable and accurate on days when compliance with FAR 105.17 is, shall we say, "suspect."
 
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scarcherpilot said:
Well, he is a "showman" about it for sure.....for example he will say "Fifteeeeeeeeeeen THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND Feet from the surface of the earth traveling at 120 miles per hour" and you are correct, i am a southerner born and raised, but this guy has an accent that even makes us southerners cringe. LOL
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That guy is at Polk County (4A4) and is obnoxious about his radio calls. He ties up the frequency for a long time with extended calls that last 30 seconds plus. I believe he's accentuating the southern twang just to be more annoying.

I figure Polk County is about 35 miles SSW of Calhoun.
 
Lindberg said:
I don't know about forgetting, but I have sometimes found jump plane transmissions to be less reliable and accurate on days when compliance with FAR 105.17 is, shall we say, "suspect."
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Are those the days they are dropping meat bombs *through* the clouds or dropping them without adequate cloud clearance?
 
Anyone else here from Michigan (or maybe northeastern Wisconsin) that has heard the "jumpers away" guy at Charlevoix? @KayDeeW and I love listening to that guy! His voice sounds just like an old time radio announcer, or maybe the guy that narrates the old movie newsreels, sort of like this:

 
flyingron said:
Eh? The parachute symbol provides no "directional guidance" it just is placed somewhere cartographically convenient next to the airport symbol.
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Then a good thing I didn’t trust it.
 
kyleb said:
That guy is at Polk County (4A4) and is obnoxious about his radio calls. He ties up the frequency for a long time with extended calls that last 30 seconds plus. I believe he's accentuating the southern twang just to be more annoying.

I figure Polk County is about 35 miles SSW of Calhoun.
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LOL, yep, that is him! Cedar Town - PolkCounty! "Blue Caravan" guy. Glad to know i am not the only one that thinks he is a bit over the top.
 
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