SkewTLogPro iOS App now subscription based

Brad Z

Brad Z

Final Approach
Joined
Dec 28, 2007
Messages
7,058
Location
Alexandria VA
Display Name
Display name:
Brad Z
Heads up app purchasers--

Just as I was about to update the skew T app I have on my iPad and iPhone, I noticed that they're now making it a subscription based app. That's fine except that I already paid $9.99 when I first loaded it a year or so ago. Is there a way to turn off the prompting of updates so I can just use what I paid for? I don't have auto update on, but it always sits out as an app needing update and it annoys me.

Honestly I'm really not that much of a cheap bastard, but $10 was about what it was worth to me to have an app that saves me from having to go to the NOAA site and pull them up. I'm not sure what value they could possibly add that would make it worth an annual subscription. Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if future versions of Foreflight and WingX provide this data.
 
Brad - have the app as well ... applied the update and given you had once purchased it they "give" you a year subscription. So you are good to go for 12 months. Then you can make the decision as to whether to buy another year.
 
I wish I hadn't clicked on the update in the App Store. I was content with the old app, for exactly the reasons Brad mentioned.
 
Not sure about the iOS situation, but on Android I've been very happy so far with this free app.
 
Thanks for the heads up, I just noticed that in my updates. Think I will hold off on the update as long as they keep it running without bugs.

Have you noticed any differences in the updated app? I see it is like 60mb so there must be something pretty significant :dunno:

Not happy about another subscription, but I have grown to like the app and use it a lot for IFR flight planning since I fly low altitude piston powered puddle jumpers, so I will probably just pay it.
 
Ugh.

I'm not updating. It kinda ticks me off that I paid for it and now they want to charge me an annual fee for them to show me data that's provided for free by the government. If ForeFlight doesn't add this in soon maybe I'll have to write my own app. :mad:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Ugh.

I'm not updating. It kinda ticks me off that I paid for it and now they want to charge me an annual fee for them to show me data that's provided for free by the government. If ForeFlight doesn't add this in soon maybe I'll have to write my own app. :mad:
Click to expand...

Yeah, I never understand how people think it's ethical to do this or why Apple even allows it. An update that breaks the software you paid for. If a larger company did this they'd be facing a class action lawsuit.

The proper thing to do, in this case, would be for them to release a new application that was subscription based and then remove the old application from the App Store.
 
josephbelt01 said:
ForeFlight did this. I paid for the app when it was originally released before it went subscription based. The modern app is far superior so I'm not upset. The truth is "sustainment" can cost more than development. The money to sustain has to come from somewhere.
Click to expand...

I recall hearing that. I suspect that using the original version of ForeFlight would look quite antiquated, and there'd be a pretty good incentive to upgrade to the subscription version.

I agree with Jesse that in either case, the authors of these apps should shift to a new app with a subscription and retire the old one.

My guess is new purchases for these niche apps start to dry up after a while, so little incentive or ongoing revenue to pay for things like enhancements or iOS updates.
 
josephbelt01 said:
ForeFlight did this. I paid for the app when it was originally released before it went subscription based. The modern app is far superior so I'm not upset. The truth is "sustainment" can cost more than development. The money to sustain has to come from somewhere.
Click to expand...


They also added new features before the switch. It's going to be really hard to add enough features to this little App to make the switch worth it.
 
This is the EXACT same thing that happened to me with Foreskin Flight !!! They charged me $75 bucks for the app back in 2008 that was supposed to update forever, then they figure out - "hey we're missing the boat here.......we should do a subscription based service and get even more money". Well how about grandfathering the folks that made you what you are and honoring your original app ??? Would that put you out of business ??? Cheap bastards !

They'll never get another nickel from me. BTW thanks Wing X Pro for the FREE subscription for CFI's. Foreskin Flight is no doubt too cheap to do anything like that.
 
Art VanDelay said:
This is the EXACT same thing that happened to me with Foreskin Flight !!! They charged me $75 bucks for the app back in 2008 that was supposed to update forever, then they figure out - "hey we're missing the boat here.......we should do a subscription based service and get even more money". Well how about grandfathering the folks that made you what you are and honoring your original app ??? Would that put you out of business ??? Cheap bastards !

They'll never get another nickel from me. BTW thanks Wing X Pro for the FREE subscription for CFI's. Foreskin Flight is no doubt too cheap to do anything like that.
Click to expand...

Are you taking some sort of medication? Perhaps undergoing some sort of treatment? This is certainly a very strange post.
 
I turned off auto-update on my phone to see if I'd be able to skirt the subscription model of this app by keeping my existing version. Then, this morning I noticed this:

73a165fd13afc4a9e1032d05c37d3b43.jpg


Which makes me wonder if they won't force an update from the previous version by having the old data stream "time out" at some point.
 
josephbelt01 said:
ForeFlight did this. I paid for the app when it was originally released before it went subscription based. The modern app is far superior so I'm not upset. The truth is "sustainment" can cost more than development. The money to sustain has to come from somewhere.
Click to expand...

The thing is, ForeFlight has been around for so long that when they first came out with it, subscription-based software wasn't supported by iOS because in-app purchases had yet to be invented and developers weren't allowed to do their own home-spun version either.

Once Apple added in-app purchases to iOS, a lot of developers switched. Almost nobody bought ForeFlight before that because they were charging a lot of $$$ for the app because they had to get all their money up front.

SkewTLogPro, OTOH, didn't come out until long after. They could have been subscription-based from the beginning. And I still wouldn't have liked it, because they're not serving any data the way ForeFlight is, they just wrote an app that connects to government servers. They don't have any ongoing per-user costs.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
The thing is, ForeFlight has been around for so long that when they first came out with it, subscription-based software wasn't supported by iOS because in-app purchases had yet to be invented and developers weren't allowed to do their own home-spun version either.

Once Apple added in-app purchases to iOS, a lot of developers switched. Almost nobody bought ForeFlight before that because they were charging a lot of $$$ for the app because they had to get all their money up front.

SkewTLogPro, OTOH, didn't come out until long after. They could have been subscription-based from the beginning. And I still wouldn't have liked it, because they're not serving any data the way ForeFlight is, they just wrote an app that connects to government servers. They don't have any ongoing per-user costs.
Click to expand...

So? IF they originally said, "never a fee to update," then they should be bound by that. But it is Apple and Foreflight, so not surprising to see you rush to their side.
 
If you don't update, the old app version still works. It still downloads the government data and plots it for you.

I have the app on both my iphone and ipad. I unwittingly updated the phone, overlooking a very clear notice in the app store re. the subscription. Having discovered what I had done, I then left the iPad as it was, and it continues to work as it did before.

So, as long as you keep the device and don't update the app, it seems to me there's no problem.
 
Last edited:
NoHeat said:
If you don't update, the old app version still works. It still downloads the government data and plots it for you.

I have the app on both my iphone and ipad. I unwittingly updated the phone, overlooking a very clear notice in the app store re. the subscription. Having discovered what I had done, I then left the iPad as it was, and it continues to work as it did before.

So, as long as you keep the device and don't update the app, it seems to me there's no problem.
Click to expand...
Of course many of us have our apps set to auto update and it's pretty unethical to push out an update that destroys a product you made a one time payment for.

A few years ago I had someone contact me wanting me to contract to build a skew t app. I turned it down for various reasons. Not sure if it's the same folks behind this one.
 
jesse said:
Of course many of us have our apps set to auto update and it's pretty unethical to push out an update that destroys a product you made a one time payment for.

A few years ago I had someone contact me wanting me to contract to build a skew t app. I turned it down for various reasons. Not sure if it's the same folks behind this one.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat: This is a class-action lawsuit against Apple just waiting to happen. I was burned by Xavion, now this. At a minimum, auto plate should NOT update an app whose terms and conditions have changed.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Bad idea for pilots - What happens when your EFB decides to update itself as you're about to take the runway?
Click to expand...

Good point - but quite unlikely for me since I don't let it auto update over a cellular connection. It's already wifi connected to my Stratus which doesn't provide data. I strongly suspect it won't terminate an app you're currently running to update it..though I don't know that for sure.

For how I use Foreflight it really wouldn't matter. Anything I absolutely need to depart is already programmed into the airplanes RNAV or written down or is stored in my brain.
 
Last edited:
So, about face.

The latest (1.7) app update says:

"**NOTE: New update REMOVES annual subscription requirement as mentioned in previous reviews, all features are available when purchased **"

It once again costs $9.99 to purchase, no subscription required. If you downloaded it for free when a subscription was required, lucky you, you got it for free forever. Those of us who paid the $9.99 and didn't like the subscription got our wish!

Kudos to the developer for listening.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Ugh.

If ForeFlight doesn't add this in soon maybe I'll have to write my own app. :mad:
Click to expand...

I had a chance recently to visit with the ForeFlight folks and mentioned this data as something they should add. They were non-committal.
 
Datadriver said:
I had a chance recently to visit with the ForeFlight folks and mentioned this data as something they should add. They were non-committal.
Click to expand...

They'll always be non-committal about future features. It's how the software (and hardware, for that matter) business is done right.

However, Scott Dennstaedt works for ForeFlight now as their Chief Weather Scientist (how many other EFB app makers have one of those?), so I'm sure they'll have it soon.

But, for the time being, SkewTLogPro is no longer subscription based anyway, so I'll keep using it.
 
I'd bet Scott will have it on Foreflight this year. I've done 18 hours of training with him and he is by far the best for aviation weather - at least as far as i'm concerned.

I liked the Skew T app - but not paying for it. Just use the ipad to go the Scotts site or Ruc soundings...
 
EminiTrader said:
I'd bet Scott will have it on Foreflight this year. I've done 18 hours of training with him and he is by far the best for aviation weather - at least as far as i'm concerned.

I liked the Skew T app - but not paying for it. Just use the ipad to go the Scotts site or Ruc soundings...
Click to expand...
The last time I checked the app, it did not have the capability of showing the parcel line. That's what keeps me going to rucsoundings, especially as we get into the instability season. Anyone here know if that has changed?

With Scott being the ultimate aviation guru on the Skew-T I would not be surprised to see it either if it can be done in a way that allows it to be non-static. If not, I'd just as soon go to rucsoundings.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
They'll always be non-committal about future features. It's how the software (and hardware, for that matter) business is done right.



.
Click to expand...


There are clearly some low-hanging, very easy to implement features that aren't implemented. (Ie terrain alerting, VNAV). I interpret the lack of these features to mean they are not interested in doing them.

Anybody at SnF? Are they giving people "hands-on" time with 7.0 at the booth? There was a demo video posted, but it only discussed a couple features.
 
dans2992 said:
There are clearly some low-hanging, very easy to implement features that aren't implemented. (Ie terrain alerting, VNAV). I interpret the lack of these features to mean they are not interested in doing them.
Click to expand...

I suspect that this is simply an effect of priorities, not indifference. Contrary to developers who are "feature queens," racing to implement new features before they're fully baked, ForeFlight's approach appears to be more deliberate and methodical. The end result is a product with features that work very well when they are released.


JKG
 
JGoodish said:
I suspect that this is simply an effect of priorities, not indifference. Contrary to developers who are "feature queens," racing to implement new features before they're fully baked, ForeFlight's approach appears to be more deliberate and methodical. The end result is a product with features that work very well when they are released.





JKG
Click to expand...


I agree, but my god these are sooooo simple.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
They'll always be non-committal about future features. It's how the software (and hardware, for that matter) business is done right.
Click to expand...


Very debatable. I don't mind companies that announce good things and actually commit and produce at all. In fact, I'd argue that I appreciate it far more than "just wait and see". The latter feels like customers aren't good enough to know what's coming or have any say in it.

So we buy on current feature set and hope. Which is a whole lot dumber than just reading the planned roadmap, but what you do when there's no other option.
 
denverpilot said:
Very debatable. I don't mind companies that announce good things and actually commit and produce at all. In fact, I'd argue that I appreciate it far more than "just wait and see". The latter feels like customers aren't good enough to know what's coming or have any say in it.

So we buy on current feature set and hope. Which is a whole lot dumber than just reading the planned roadmap, but what you do when there's no other option.
Click to expand...

When it comes to future releases of software, I don't believe it until I see it. I rather not have foreflight push out junk just to maintain a production schedule. Further, it's a competitive market, so I can see why they wouldn't want to telegraph their development schedule to their competition, who may very well beat them to the punch. My purchase decision is based on today's features and anything else is gravy.
 
denverpilot said:
Very debatable. I don't mind companies that announce good things and actually commit and produce at all. In fact, I'd argue that I appreciate it far more than "just wait and see". The latter feels like customers aren't good enough to know what's coming or have any say in it.

So we buy on current feature set and hope. Which is a whole lot dumber than just reading the planned roadmap, but what you do when there's no other option.
Click to expand...

The problem is if you promise something is coming, and then there's an unforeseen roadblock in the development, at best you lose some credibility but more likely people will call you dishonest or liars. Then the competition will jump on the train too.

Software projects are hard to estimate accurately. That's why in the corporate world they bloat all their timeframes significantly.
 
AustinPilot said:
The problem is if you promise something is coming, and then there's an unforeseen roadblock in the development, at best you lose some credibility but more likely people will call you dishonest or liars. Then the competition will jump on the train too.



Software projects are hard to estimate accurately. That's why in the corporate world they bloat all their timeframes significantly.
Click to expand...


For customer suggestions, I'd think they could at least say "we 're working on it" or "we have no plans to implement that feature at this time".
 
AustinPilot said:
The problem is if you promise something is coming, and then there's an unforeseen roadblock in the development, at best you lose some credibility but more likely people will call you dishonest or liars. Then the competition will jump on the train too.



Software projects are hard to estimate accurately. That's why in the corporate world they bloat all their timeframes significantly.
Click to expand...


Software projects are difficult to estimate because customers just pay up and rarely hold software companies to any sort of real building plans.

Nor do most customers know what the hell they want built, of course, also. Just to be fair.

It's about the most laughable industry in the country, really. And calling it "engineering" is REALLY funny. Or sad, depending on your point of view.

The longer the industry remains at the teenage level with no significant business discipline, the more it thinks that level of non-professionalism is normal. Customers even start to agree. The old "frog boiled in water slowly" thing.
 
Having lived through the era of vaporware I'm more than happy with ForeFlight's model. So far I've been pleased with the results so I have nothing to complain about.
 
denverpilot said:
Software projects are difficult to estimate because customers just pay up and rarely hold software companies to any sort of real building plans.

Nor do most customers know what the hell they want built, of course, also. Just to be fair.

It's about the most laughable industry in the country, really. And calling it "engineering" is REALLY funny. Or sad, depending on your point of view.

The longer the industry remains at the teenage level with no significant business discipline, the more it thinks that level of non-professionalism is normal. Customers even start to agree. The old "frog boiled in water slowly" thing.
Click to expand...

The irony here is that the companies who operate software development like a traditional "professional" business are the ones that move the slowest, innovate the least, deliver everything late with missing features, and have the most red tape.

We now live in a world where 20-somethings with ideas are creating billion-dollar companies and the old billion-dollar companies are scrambling to figure out why they can't keep up.
 
Last edited:
AustinPilot said:
The irony here is that the companies who operate software development like a traditional "professional" business are the ones that move the slowest, innovate the least, deliver everything late with missing features, and have the most red tape.

We now live in a world where 20-somethings with ideas are creating billion-dollar companies and the old billion-dollar companies are scrambling to figure out why they can't keep up.
Click to expand...

I think the key factor is time to market. In the old pre-app days, ttm was long because delivering a product (e.g. car, appliance, apparel) required creating something reliable inside the factory, then running it by a gauntlet of government agencies for approval, and only then introducing it to the end user. If the final step bombed, it was back to the drawing board with a lot of red faces and perhaps pink slips.
With software apps today, ttm can be literally seconds: a developer can click a few buttons, create a new feature, and instantly upload it to the end users. If it's not quite right, you fix it and try again.
So the entire core business model has changed, with the end user becoming part of the development team, as a permanent beta tester. This creates instant successes and failures, both technically and financially, and more exciting times all around.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top