Single Pilot Night IFR

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Cmercado

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
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150
Location
San Juan, Puerto Rico
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Display name:
Charlie M
Single Pilot Night IFR-Spatial disorientation

Guys,

For the first time in my life I felt dissoriented. I was in night IMC and the feeling was not great. Probably was less than a minute but it felt like an eternity.... I was able to regain my senses and flew the airplane the right way after that..... Begining next week I will start recurrent training in night IFR conditions..... Its that common??:dunno:
 
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Glad your training kicked in and you got sorted out. Yes, that is not uncommon for pilots who don't fly a lot in those conditions. If your proficiency has waned, then some training time in those conditions with a good instructor is the right thing to do.
 
You get those strobes switched off ASAP? Good panel lighting?
 
dell30rb said:
You get those strobes switched off ASAP? Good panel lighting?
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I did not turn off the strobes..... My mistake.... The panel lightning is excellent..... It was probably less than 30 seconds....but I wont take any risk. Night IFR training next week...
 
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Nothing more disorienting than getting blinded by strobes.. Then turning them off only to have a hard time seeing the dimly lit panel.. Been there done that

Though, having the strobes on leaves no doubt when you fly into a cloud. Next time you find yourself getting blinded with strobes think.. Instruments!
 
Even more common in helos. Every helo pilot I know has gotten disoriented in night IMC.....even when proficient.
 
Glad you are still around to post here Charlie. I don't fly night IFR. The risk is not worth it to me, considering the limited equipment in our airplane. You are doing the right thing!
 
flyingmoose said:
Having never flown a helo, why is that?
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I am told it has to do with the motion and lack of inherent stability that is common in helicopters.

Straight and level is not a problem, but apparently it is very easy to get vertigo while making turns in IMC. I have known guys who had to pass the controls back and forth between the two pilots just to complete an approach.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I am told it has to do with the motion and lack of inherent stability that is common in helicopters.

Straight and level is not a problem, but apparently it is very easy to get vertigo while making turns in IMC. I have known guys who had to pass the controls back and forth between the two pilots just to complete an approach.
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Huh, well that don't sound like much fun. I would have never thought of it like that. Thanks
 
Night IMC is as "IMC" as it gets. I've had that "oh, boy" feeling several times. I've learned to focus on my scan, and in a few seconds I remember that I know how to do it and things go back to normal.
 
It happened to me early on in my flying career. It happens. Trust thine instruments, and get recurrent training to keep proficient in it. Good job.
 
I did IR training while working the day job, so much of the training, including all of the XC's was done at night. I didn't think about the benefits (or the risks, whatever they may have been) but have never regretted the immersion and have never noticed any difference in day vs night other than need for cockpit organization and lighting.
 
wabower said:
I did IR training while working the day job, so much of the training, including all of the XC's was done at night. I didn't think about the benefits (or the risks, whatever they may have been) but have never regretted the immersion and have never noticed any difference in day vs night other than need for cockpit organization and lighting.
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To a certain extent, even a hooded pilot has some indication of up versus down in daylight based on light and shadows visible despite the hood. Take them up at night, and that goes away, and they lose something they've learned to use (intentionally or otherwise), which results in things like the OP's situation. Learn instrument flying initially at night like Wayne, and you don't learn to use those cues since they aren't there, and you never rely on them to any measurable extent. Laws of Exercise and Primacy at work.
 
The other side of that story is that I find reason to conduct FR's and IPC's at night, and find that many pilots perform poorly (at least initially) and are averse to such activities. They ***** about the added difficulty, can't see, can't find the pencil, their demonstrated propensity for unplanned self-induced unusual attitude recovery, etc. When we're done they usually concede that the training was valuable and exposed their chinks, but their attitude when the next time rolls around tells me they don't like to work that hard.

Their whining has nothing to do with the timing of the next ride, however, since nights seem to be the only time I'm available.:rofl:

Ron Levy said:
To a certain extent, even a hooded pilot has some indication of up versus down in daylight based on light and shadows visible despite the hood. Take them up at night, and that goes away, and they lose something they've learned to use (intentionally or otherwise), which results in things like the OP's situation. Learn instrument flying initially at night like Wayne, and you don't learn to use those cues since they aren't there, and you never rely on them to any measurable extent. Laws of Exercise and Primacy at work.
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I hate it when my chinks are exposed. Especially in winter. Frostbitten chinks suck.
 
I started my IR training at night, under the hood. I totally agree that it makes a huge difference in terms of what cues are available. I need to do more of that -- especially since I no longer have a Francis hood to use, and am back to using foggles. (Yeah, I could just buy one, but the tradeoff with the Francis is bulk, physical discomfort, and hitting the thing on my Rosen visor when transitioning to visual, which as far as I'm concerned is a safety issue.)
 
Fearless Tower said:
I am told it has to do with the motion and lack of inherent stability that is common in helicopters.

Straight and level is not a problem, but apparently it is very easy to get vertigo while making turns in IMC. I have known guys who had to pass the controls back and forth between the two pilots just to complete an approach.
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Absolutely correct. Night induced vertigo in a helicopter is no joke. Approaches in turbulence is spooky, but holding a hover over a moving boat at night in rain is one of the scariest things I have ever done. You have the searchlight, rain streaks on the windscreen, trying to focus on the apparent horizon and your reference light while ignoring the swell as it deforms your reference, listening to the crew chief call your position and direct your maneuvers, etc, etc. About five minutes and you are soaking with sweat. We passed off frequently.
 
Ron Levy said:
To a certain extent, even a hooded pilot has some indication of up versus down in daylight based on light and shadows visible despite the hood. Take them up at night, and that goes away, and they lose something they've learned to use (intentionally or otherwise), which results in things like the OP's situation. Learn instrument flying initially at night like Wayne, and you don't learn to use those cues since they aren't there, and you never rely on them to any measurable extent. Laws of Exercise and Primacy at work.
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Absolutely spot on. There is little margin for error when flying, and IMHO none in IMC. Train in the worst and the rest is easy.
 
wabower said:
I did IR training while working the day job, so much of the training, including all of the XC's was done at night. I didn't think about the benefits (or the risks, whatever they may have been) but have never regretted the immersion and have never noticed any difference in day vs night other than need for cockpit organization and lighting.
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Did my long XC at night. That's when the CFII and I were both available. He said it was a beautiful night for sightseeing. I wouldn't know. :D
 
When flying in clouds at night, I kill the strobes and the taxilight (I normally keep my LED taxilight on 100% of the time. I turn the instrument lights up a notch, and keep all other light sources low.

To me, flying instruments in the clouds at night is no different than flying VFR over the boonies on a moonless night. Same skills apply.

I agree on doing instrument training at night. The controllers seem to be more accomodating, less traffic to dodge in the pattern on approaches, and your instrument scan will be superior.
 
I just wanted to add that it was night IMC and overwater.....Absolutely no visual clues.... It is funny... after all this years thinking that I was god's gift to aviation and all of a sudden I was feeling like a two hour student.... I am very happy that right in the middle of the spatial disorientation episode my inner voice said not to panic and to trust the instruments....

It is a humbling experience. Please guys....All of us take a lot of heat every time one of us become a statistic and crash a small plane. It does not matter how many hours you have... take your CFI for a ride and do some night IFR work. Do it regularly. It WILL save your life...
 
Here is something that I learned on my check ride of all places, the effects of which worked magic to correct for being disoriented. I've shared this with several instrument rated pilots who were also unaware of the method. This was written following my check ride but a copy/paste makes more sense than typing it again. ;)

"A valuable lesson learned happened after getting a horrible case of the leans during the test. Setting up for unusual attitudes the DE spent about a minute and a half very slowly and gently making changes to the plane at 10 to 15 second intervals. When I looked up at the partial panel to recover my world fell over like a dead gyro and didn’t come back. After recovering and flying my heading and altitude for around a minute or two I confessed to having the leans somewhat dramatically. I asked if he knew a trick to undo to my brain what he has set into motion. He told me that setting up the U.A. the way he did it causes the leans and gives an opportunity to not only see a recovery, but to see how the pilot flies when the body doesn’t match with information from the panel. Again, he said he cannot teach on a check ride, but that he personally gets the plane straight and level and in perfect trim while looking at the attitude gyro which he had uncovered by this point. He said he then closes his eyes for about 10 seconds without moving his head. When opening the eyes which are still looking at the AI and then re-focusing on the gyro without any head movements usually makes the world realign itself. I tried it and it was magic. I could see and feel my world correct itself."


I don't know if this would help in a situation like you encountered, but I'd sure try it.
 
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I've had two cases of the leans, and it is an interesting battle between false senses and rational brain. One was with Jesse and it wasn't as bad as the first many years prior. He chuckled when he got it to happen...

My tendency is to lean my body into the door or the person in the other seat far enough to make my ears happy while still flying level on the instruments. It's weird.

You really do want to experience it in the training environment if you at all can get it induced by an instructor. I can't imagine how unhappy I'd be if I'd experienced it the first time solo in IMC. That would suuuuuuuck.
 
Trust me.... It sucks... I was with passengers and fortunately the only thing that happened was that I loose 200 feet. I was able to fly the plane safely but its the aftertaste of the situation that really meesed up my confidence...
 
My CFII got the leans the second time I went IMC in training. It was climbing out and on vectors to a SID. I basically just chanted wings-level-on-course or turning-to-XX. It was good training.

I've had the leans since then but just trust the instruments (so far) and to a lesser degree the autopilot. It is nice to have the Aspen, a TC, and an AI. Also a working altimeter and airspeed indicator are wonderful...
 
It's been a long time for me, but I do recall two events. One was departing from an uncontrolled field on an over cast night that was out in the middle of dense woods. Once off the runway, which was well lit, nothing but black void. Took a minute to make the transition to instruments and it was a wake up call. Always prepared better for that situation after that.
Second was in a helicopter doing a night approach to a strobe light on a dark night in dense woods with no outside reference (dark night). One really had to trust their instruments and keep the strobe on one part of the canopy to have a constant rate of descent. It was only within a few feet of the ground that we could tell where it was. The first time, I had to turn control over to the instructor with me. After that, it was just discipline, but a real challenge.

Best,

Dave
 
Dave Siciliano said:
It's been a long time for me, but I do recall two events. One was departing from an uncontrolled field on an over cast night that was out in the middle of dense woods. Once off the runway, which was well lit, nothing but black void. Took a minute to make the transition to instruments and it was a wake up call. Always prepared better for that situation after that.
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I've had similar experiences taking off from rural airports under an overcast sky. Pretty much as soon as you rotate and certainly once you pass the end of the runway there are NO external visual references worth looking at. Some say a clear moonless night takeoff offers the same challenge but I don't recall that myself.

One related note of interest, you face the exact same issues if you abort a landing from the runway on a dark night overcast and minimal light from the ground in the surrounding area. Doing either (taking off or aborting a landing) in low vis at night offers pretty much the same lack of visual references. A good friend of mine died under those circumstances and I strongly suspect it was the instant IMC that got him in trouble.

Second was in a helicopter doing a night approach to a strobe light on a dark night in dense woods with no outside reference (dark night). One really had to trust their instruments and keep the strobe on one part of the canopy to have a constant rate of descent. It was only within a few feet of the ground that we could tell where it was. The first time, I had to turn control over to the instructor with me. After that, it was just discipline, but a real challenge.
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Even without people shooting at you that sounds scary enough to require an underware change and/or seat cushion extraction.
 
Good points on departure and go-around from unlit airports under an overcast sky. I've had the same happen. That's where it becomes important to know desired pitch to go to. The transition can be disorienting for sure.
 
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