Simulated IFR PIC Question

LevelWing

LevelWing

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Messages
465
Location
GA
Display Name
Display name:
LevelWing
I'm going to begin IFR training soon but as a pre-requisite I need 50 hours of cross-country PIC time. I know that you need 40 hours of IFR training out of which 15 must be with an instructor and the other 25 can be with a safety pilot. Can I double tap the requirements by flying my cross-county under foggles with a safety pilot and have it count for both cross-country PIC time and simulated IFR time? Can my safety pilot log his time as PIC time as well?
 
LevelWing said:
I'm going to begin IFR training soon but as a pre-requisite I need 50 hours of cross-country PIC time. I know that you need 40 hours of IFR training out of which 15 must be with an instructor and the other 25 can be with a safety pilot. Can I double tap the requirements by flying my cross-county under foggles with a safety pilot and have it count for both cross-country PIC time and simulated IFR time? Can my safety pilot log his time as PIC time as well?
Click to expand...

Yes and yes.

For the second "yes" that is provided that you and your safety pilot have agreed in advance that he/she will be the acting PIC while you are under the hood, and that the safety pilot has all the proper credentials and endorsements required to act as PIC.

Please note that the safety pilot CAN NOT log it as cross country time!!

Mike
 
LevelWing said:
I'm going to begin IFR training soon but as a pre-requisite I need 50 hours of cross-country PIC time. I know that you need 40 hours of IFR training out of which 15 must be with an instructor
Click to expand...
To pick a regulatory/semantic nit, the required 40 hours is "instrument time", not "IFR training". That instrument time may come in flight under actual or simulated instrument conditions (with an instructor or appropriately qualified safety pilot), or as simulated instrument time on the ground in a sim with an instrument instructor (max 10-20 hours depending on the sim's certification). The 15 hours is "instrument flight training," which for 61.65 purposes must all be in an airplane under actual or simulated instrument conditions with an instrument flight instructor.
 
Ron Levy said:
To pick a regulatory/semantic nit, the required 40 hours is "instrument time", not "IFR training". That instrument time may come in flight under actual or simulated instrument conditions (with an instructor or appropriately qualified safety pilot), or as simulated instrument time on the ground in a sim with an instrument instructor (max 10-20 hours depending on the sim's certification). The 15 hours is "instrument flight training," which for 61.65 purposes must all be in an airplane under actual or simulated instrument conditions with an instrument flight instructor.
Click to expand...

Ron, do I recall correctly from our off forum emails that a program like PIC more than covers this required time? Even if the student just has the 3-hrs from his PPL training?
 
AggieMike88 said:
Ron, do I recall correctly from our off forum emails that a program like PIC more than covers this required time? Even if the student just has the 3-hrs from his PPL training?
Click to expand...
Yes. It's going to be a push to get those 37 hours done, but we will do it.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Ron, do I recall correctly from our off forum emails that a program like PIC more than covers this required time? Even if the student just has the 3-hrs from his PPL training?
Click to expand...

The three hours for the PPL you refer to is "flight training by reference to instruments" (paraphrased), not instrument flight training.

Bob Gardner
 
LevelWing said:
I'm going to begin IFR training soon but as a pre-requisite I need 50 hours of cross-country PIC time. I know that you need 40 hours of IFR training out of which 15 must be with an instructor and the other 25 can be with a safety pilot. Can I double tap the requirements by flying my cross-county under foggles with a safety pilot and have it count for both cross-country PIC time and simulated IFR time? Can my safety pilot log his time as PIC time as well?
Click to expand...

I did all 40 of my IR training with my CFII Satan, I would suggest you find the best, toughest most sadistic CFII in your area and do the same, I know it's saved my life. 38 of those 40 hrs were X/C flying all over central and Southern CA shooting all types of approaches everywhere. They all count towards the 50(although I had 50xc long before I did my IR, I had my CPL as well.) because the 50 is before you take the ride, not before you begin training. HOWEVER, I would suggest that you do at least one really long cross country before you start your IR training because that's where you learn to trim and finesse the plane to fly itself rather than you flying the plane all the time. That part of control is what makes you or breaks you on the IR.
 
Henning said:
I did all 40 of my IR training with my CFII Satan, I would suggest you find the best, toughest most sadistic CFII in your area and do the same, I know it's saved my life. 38 of those 40 hrs were X/C flying all over central and Southern CA shooting all types of approaches everywhere. They all count towards the 50(although I had 50xc long before I did my IR, I had my CPL as well.) because the 50 is before you take the ride, not before you begin training. HOWEVER, I would suggest that you do at least one really long cross country before you start your IR training because that's where you learn to trim and finesse the plane to fly itself rather than you flying the plane all the time. That part of control is what makes you or breaks you on the IR.
Click to expand...

Amen! If you don't learn anything else in IR training, you will learn that trim is your friend.
 
Henning said:
I did all 40 of my IR training with my CFII Satan, I would suggest you find the best, toughest most sadistic CFII in your area and do the same, I know it's saved my life. 38 of those 40 hrs were X/C flying all over central and Southern CA shooting all types of approaches everywhere. They all count towards the 50(although I had 50xc long before I did my IR, I had my CPL as well.) because the 50 is before you take the ride, not before you begin training. HOWEVER, I would suggest that you do at least one really long cross country before you start your IR training because that's where you learn to trim and finesse the plane to fly itself rather than you flying the plane all the time. That part of control is what makes you or breaks you on the IR.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tip, I'll keep this in mind. I'm glad I can double tap the time requirements, that'll help out a lot.
 
bobmrg said:
The three hours for the PPL you refer to is "flight training by reference to instruments" (paraphrased), not instrument flight training.
Click to expand...
Nevertheless, it is still "instrument time" even if it isn't "instrument flight training," and thus counts for the 40 hours of instrument time even if it doesn't count for the 15 hours of instrument flight training. That means, if the client shows up with only the bare minimum 3 hours of instrument time, the legal minimum for us is 37 more hours of instrument time, including 15 hours of instrument flight training.
 
I can't remember a single hour I spent with my CFII that he didn't actively teach me something. It was in a 172 with a single KX-170B and an ADF and he worked me hard every minute. Can one make minimum standards and save some money on the 15-25 route, probably (although I couldn't have as I got CFII & plane, wet, for $30hr, I couldn't fly my plane that cheap). Is it worth the money you save? Depends on the quality of the instructor and what the future holds for you.
 
I'm tending to the safety pilot thing, even when with a CFII...but that's because it's a PITA to get TSA approval for every single instructor, and I know a bunch of CFIIs who are happy to impart their wisdom, without needing to sign my logbook.
 
I think I did about 5 hours or so with a safety pilot about halfway through earning my instrument rating.

I recall that it was really nice to get Satan out of the right seat so I could just practice the things I felt I needed to work on.

Having said that, I agree that your need plenty of time with Satan if you're going to wind up as a safe IFR pilot.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top