Silly, contrived scenario

Good Lord - I think it's unlikely any GA flight is legal; the quagmire the FAA has made of the regs, the obtuse wording, illogical constructs, contradictory and/or vague interpretations, etc. would give a diligent burrower cause for a violation on any flight any us make, anytime.

I think some of it is just benign bloat, nothing nefarious, just ivory-tower job justification and maybe some lazy de-conflicting. Some may be broad and generic by design, a useful hammer to hold over the heads of those who offend in "non-specific" ways.
 
Sundancer said:
Good Lord - I think it's unlikely any GA flight is legal; the quagmire the FAA has made of the regs, the obtuse wording, illogical constructs, contradictory and/or vague interpretations, etc. would give a diligent burrower cause for a violation on any flight any us make, anytime.

I think some of it is just benign bloat, nothing nefarious, just ivory-tower job justification and maybe some lazy de-conflicting. Some may be broad and generic by design, a useful hammer to hold over the heads of those who offend in "non-specific" ways.
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They're not nearly as complex as some POA posters make them out to be.
 
Lindberg said:
They're not nearly as complex as some POA posters make them out to be.
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I think when pilots do some independent "simplification" they become less obtuse and inconsistent. As in, if it's dark outside, log it as night; If you're flying the plane, log the time. Log an approach in actual IMC? Unless you break-out before the FAF - uhhh, unless you were under the hood, but if a safety pilot wasn't. . .etc.
 
Salty said:
You are a CFI.
You do not currently meet the requirements for night flight with passengers. (Less than 3 landings in the last 90 days)

Can you instruct a private student pilot, at night, if they are night current, and they remain sole manipulator of the controls?
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CFIs are giving the authority to train and evaluate pilots, not just students. Part of that authority is to train pilots at night without being night current because the FAA differentiates between a passenger and a person receiving pilot training and evaluation.

This requires a commercial pilot to obtain additional training, pass additional FAA testing and being issued an additional certificate.
 
MauleSkinner said:
If the passenger is a student, the currency rule does apply.
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Technically speaking, just because you have a passenger, who also is a student pilot, that doesn’t inherently exempt you from the night currency. They also have to be the sole manipulator. (Ya know, since we’re nitpicking at words in this thread…) Otherwise, I’m getting my wife her student pilot certificate and saying forget about going to the airport at 10:30pm for those dumb takeoffs and landings!
 
flyingpreacher said:
Technically speaking, just because you have a passenger, who also is a student pilot, that doesn’t inherently exempt you from the night currency. They also have to be the sole manipulator. (Ya know, since we’re nitpicking at words in this thread…) Otherwise, I’m getting my wife her student pilot certificate and saying forget about going to the airport at 10:30pm for those dumb takeoffs and landings!
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Not true. A CFI could go up with a student and demonstrate night landings and be perfectly legal. You are interpreting things that just aren’t there.
 
Dave Theisen said:
Not true. A CFI could go up with a student and demonstrate night landings and be perfectly legal. You are interpreting things that just aren’t there.
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I suppose I misstated my point. It has to be dual instruction. You can’t just stick a “student pilot” in the passenger seat for a trip and throw currency out the window.
 
flyingpreacher said:
I suppose I misstated my point. It has to be dual instruction. You can’t just stick a “student pilot” in the passenger seat for a trip and throw currency out the window.
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Dual instruction does not mean the student is the sole manipulator.
 
Lindberg said:
Dual instruction does not mean the student is the sole manipulator.
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Nor is there some minimum description of what constitutes dual instruction. "For this flight, I want you to focus on how things appear at night. Just watch outside and pay attention to lights, ground features, and other aircraft. Learn the sight picture for takeoff and landing. I'll do all the manipulation of the controls."

As far as I can tell, the only thing that officially makes it instruction is the logbook entry.
 
Salty said:
Restating to avoid the trigger word

Anybody that thinks it makes sense that a student isn't a passenger, and that it makes sense that the currency rule doesn't apply if the person who is not PIC and is at the mercy of the PIC, happens to be a student, is pretty naive.
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I suspect the term "passengers" is a carryover from other section of the FAR that pertain to turboprops and large passenger-carrying airplanes (part 91). The requirements for passenger briefing, passenger signage, flight attendant requirements etc.. do not apply (I think) during training operations.
 
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