Shoulder harness Yes or No

MyassisDragon

MyassisDragon

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Mr Fred
Just curious what the consensus on shoulder harnesses? Who likes them, hates them, wouldn't get in a plane without them?

My first few years were in planes that had shoulder harnesses and now finding the more I fly the more I am in planes that predate harnesses. If equipped I always loosen it up and slip it under my arm during cruise but have it on for landing, takeoff , and turbulence.

But so far almost every professional pilot or instructor ( me as Friend not student) I hop in a plane with either does not put it on or has a plane without them, and comments on the positive side when I bring it up. :dunno:
 
MyassisDragon said:
Just curious what the consensus on shoulder harnesses? Who likes them, hates them, wouldn't get in a plane without them?
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Have them, use them all the time. But, one sits very close to the panel in a Mooney and even a relatively minor ground incident would have you banging your head off the glare shield and/or panel. Yeah, I use them.
 
I won't get into a plane and fly without a shoulder harness.

There are times I may loosen the shoulder harness while in cruise, but always snug it up for take offs and landings, being sure I can reach across the cockpit if needed.
 
Anybody who would not use one has not seen many accidents close-up. I'd be very hesitant to get in any airplane without them.
 
How do you smack the student on the back of the head from the rear seat if you're wearing a shoulder harness?
 
I used to get Aviation Safety magazine and one issue they ran an article on safety enhancements you can make to your airplane. Shoulder harnesses were the absolute best (by a large margin) safety bang for the buck items they tested. IIRC, it was around $1.3 AMU for both front seats in an older C-172. Which, while astounding, in aviation terms is not so much.

John
 
I have the old style single strap running diagonally from the roof across my body to the lap belt. I don't move the plane without them secured.

I would like to replace it with a 5 point harness with the dual shoulder straps.
 
A large scale data analysis conducted as part of this safety study provides additional evidence that lap belt/shoulder harness use consistently reduces the risk of pilot fatal or serious injury when compared to lap belt use alone. The analysis, which included over 37,000 single- engine airplane accidents that occurred between 1983 and 2008, determined that the risk of fatal or serious injury with a lap belt alone was nearly 50 percent higher than with a lap belt/shoulder harness combination. The results of this analysis provide definitive empirical support confirming previous NTSB conclusions issued during a GA crashworthiness study conducted in 1985 that involved detailed investigations of 535 accidents in which at least one occupant was fatally or seriously injured.
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From:
http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/recletters/2011/A-11-001-006.pdf
 
My cherokee predates mandatory shoulder harnesses. First thing I did after the check cleared was to have harnesses installed.
 
I use my shoulder harness every time I fly. Quick question: I noticed the tension on mine isn't quite as good as I'd like, is that something that I can easily adjust myself?
 
bullwinkle said:
Anybody who would not use one has not seen many accidents close-up. I'd be very hesitant to get in any airplane without them.
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+1. Not far from here a couple weeks ago, a 182 pilot had engine trouble and put it down in a wide open plowed field. Landed perpendicular to the rows, plane flipped and pilot was killed. He did not stall it in. I can only suspect no shoulder harness. I've known others whose lives were saved by them, and others who were severely injured or killed due to lack of shoulder harness. Just like in a car, they can turn a crash that will kill you into one you can walk away from.
 
Must be some short pilots not wearing them. There is always turbulence out there enough to smack my head on the ceiling. I won't get in a plane without them. Not realistic for many aircraft, but I also really like airbags.
 
My FIL and his passenger died in the crash of a C-175 without shoulder belts. While no one will ever know for sure, I think it is likely they would have survived with shoulder belts. When I finally saw the wreckage there was a bowl-shaped indentation in the panel where his head hit it. Only thing worse than taking the phone call was hanging up and telling my wife. So yeah, I advocate shoulder belts.
 
A CFI tells the story of himself and another pilot ferrying a Flight Design to Las Vegas when they flew into strong clear air turbulence at about 3k agl.

He said his harness was 'loose' for the cruise which was a mistake. Both he and the other pilot hit their heads on the 'ceiling' knocking them both
semi-conscious. He snapped too about 500 feet agl and pulled up just in time to avoid the splat.

The blood trickling down his forehead and into his eyes wasn't much help either he said.
 
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I've not seen a good retrofit for a Navion that I like. The most functional ones completely obliterate the rear seat. There are some that sort of come up the canopy rails that aren't too bad.
 
Wait, are you saying you know people who extoll the virtues of NOT having a shoulder harness?:confused: That makes no sense, it's always preferable to have a shoulder harness, better yet a two shoulder harness. I fly planes without shoulder harnesses yes, but I prefer, and use when available, whatever harness system is installed. BAS harnesses are on the list for the 310.
 
Lindberg said:
How do you smack the student on the back of the head from the rear seat if you're wearing a shoulder harness?
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You do what instructors have done for decades.....you unscrew the back stick and thump the student with it.
 
I think there's some study suggesting that a shoulder harness is the single best investment a pilot can make from a cost/benefit standpoint.
 
My last 2 planes came without them and I added them in the first week. I think it's a great simple improvement. That said, I've flown in other peoples planes without them and would again. I just think it's a simple way to stack the deck a little bit more in my favor.

The air bags are not available for my plane so I contently fly without them. If they approve them I'd be in the front of the line to add them. Same with CAPS.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I think there's some study suggesting that a shoulder harness is the single best investment a pilot can make from a cost/benefit standpoint.
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It's debateable, I'd take the other side and say fuel flow hooked to GPS. It's like the State of California Motorcycle DL test (at a time with no helmet law). "Which is the most important for safety? a Helmet, b Gloves, c Goggles" I answered c Goggles, they wanted a Helmet. I reasoned that while the helmet will serve to some extent in the event of an accident, the goggles can prevent the accident caused by getting a rock or bug in the eye.

With fuel flow hooked to a GPS, we have provided to us excellent info to eliminate the major cause of the belts ever coming into play.
 
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I use them whenever I have them, and I'm always a bit uncomfortable when I get in an older plane that lacks them.
 
I have read the statistics and understand the dangers, But I just wanted to ask the question and see if anyone piped up supporting not using them.

Currently I fly a few planes without them, but its not my aircraft to make investment decisions. So I have to weigh the risk if i want to fly until I get my own aircraft.

Actually I feel the same vulnerability not using shoulder restraints as riding a motorcycle without a helmet, and I see plenty of individuals riding around without since Michigan removed the helmet law. But I figured I might just be a conservative weenie.
 
MyassisDragon said:
I have read the statistics and understand the dangers, But I just wanted to ask the question and see if anyone piped up supporting not using them.

Currently I fly a few planes without them, but its not my aircraft to make investment decisions. So I have to weigh the risk if i want to fly until I get my own aircraft.

Actually I feel the same vulnerability not using shoulder restraints as riding a motorcycle without a helmet, and I see plenty of individuals riding around without since Michigan removed the helmet law. But I figured I might just be a conservative weenie.
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Tough call. I can only say after crashing a motorcycle, I won't ride unless I have all the safety gear. I haven't crashed an aircraft, but I won't fly without at least shoulder belts because I don't know if I'll get another chance like I did on a motorcycle.
 
Prefer to have them. Even have a portable set that connects to rear seatbelt when flying older aircraft that don't have them.
 
MyassisDragon said:
Actually I feel the same vulnerability not using shoulder restraints as riding a motorcycle without a helmet, and I see plenty of individuals riding around without since Michigan removed the helmet law. But I figured I might just be a conservative weenie.
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People know the value of the things they protect. For me, no helmet, no motorcycle riding.
 
murphey said:
My cherokee predates mandatory shoulder harnesses. First thing I did after the check cleared was to have harnesses installed.
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Ditto. First thing we did was install two B.A.S. inertia reel shoulder harnesses in our new (1968) Cherokee when we bought it late last year. I've run into pilots who won't wear one even if installed because of discomfort or they're "not planning on crashing." :confused:
 
We installed B.A.S. shoulder harnesses in the 180.

I can't say I won't fly in a plane without them, because I just did it recently.

slide5.jpg
 
txflyer said:
We installed B.A.S. shoulder harnesses in the 180.

I can't say I won't fly in a plane without them, because I just did it recently.

slide5.jpg
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Can you imagine a turret gunner with a shoulder harness? :D
 
Irish_Armada said:
Can you imagine a turret gunner with a shoulder harness? :D
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I could not believe the port to get into the belly gun.

It looked like my 12 year old grand daughter couldn't squeeze through it.

If they told me "that's your position soldier" I might have run off and went AWOL. No freakin' way I'm getting down into that thing... :nonod:
 
For work: all the planes I have flown have them, and for to/ldg I always have then on.

For my plane: They were not installed factory (1940's) and I won't put them in, once you ring that bell you can't unring it.
 
James331 said:
For work: all the planes I have flown have them, and for to/ldg I always have then on.

For my plane: They were not installed factory (1940's) and I won't put them in, once you ring that bell you can't unring it.
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And if you plan on getting your plane judged like at OSH, ANY modification from stock will ding you.

I thought about having mine judged, but after reading the stipulations, I don't think it would even place.

It's been Frankensteined too much.... :sad:


 
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