Should you get a PPL license even if you are only expecting to fly LSA?

H

Hector Parra

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Feb 20, 2022
Messages
184
Location
Montréal, Canada
Display Name
Display name:
Hector Parra
I met a guy the other day at my flight school who is getting his Recreational Permit as he only expects to fly LSA. It makes me wonder if you should still go for PPL even if you only intend to fly LSA (which is my personal case). Should you start with RP and upgrade to PPL on the go, or should you get your PPL from the start?

Off course there's major differences between a License and a Permit, that's why I decided to go PPL even when I have LSA in mind. What will be your thoughts on that? (Will love to hear also from those folks who switched from Certified to LSA for medical reasons).

EDIT: My bad. I confused many with the use of the Recreational Permit words as up here in Canada some schools still offer RP training. I was actually thinking on the Sport Pilot category as defined by FAA on the link below (Part 61J section 315) :
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-61/subpart-J/section-61.315
 
Last edited:
Technically, they're all certificates, not "licenses" or "permits". The Recreational Pilot certificate is pretty much obsolete and only a handful were ever issued, the newer Sport Pilot certificate has largely replaced it.

A lot of people skip Sport and go for Private because they can't find a LSA to train in. If that's not an issue for you and you don't anticipate needing the additional privileges of Private, save yourself the money. You can always get additional instruction later and earn a Private if your needs change.

And... LSA is "certified" too. New LSA have a "special" instead of "standard" airworthiness certificate, and the legacy "LSA compliant" aircraft like Cubs and Champs all have standard certificates.
 
I don't think it makes much difference and probably depends on what resources you have available for you. Around here Light Sport aircraft are difficult or expensive to rent so if medical isn't an issue it makes almost as much sense to just get a PPL. I wouldn't bother with Recreational Pilot as the difference between it and PPL is not enough to warrant the difference.

If you do want to do LSA or fly much of anything in the future and are absolutely sure you have no Legal or medical issues that will cause getting a 3rd class medical problematic, I would recommend getting a 3rd class medical so that Basic med is an option for you in the future as long as you don't have any disqualifying issues come up.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
Last edited:
Back in the olden days people got a private even if they intended to just fly a Cub.

If the medical is not an issue, then there is no real reason to not get the private no matter what kind of airplane you intend to fly in the near future.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Back in the olden days people got a private even if they intended to just fly a Cub.

If the medical is not an issue, then there is no real reason to not get the private no matter what kind of airplane you intend to fly in the near future.
Click to expand...
And just as many reasons TO get the Private.
 
Get the license you need for the most common mission you plan to fly. Southwest can get you all-weather, half-day delivery to anywhere in the US for less than $400. In a way that’s a gift to those who just want to fly local & explore by air. No need to shoot for long-legged, fast cross-country machines to justify the sport. I’m still amazed by the number of Cherokee Six drivers I see flying solo, their families too busy to be bumped around admiring dad’s flying prowess.

I think of Sport Pilot as PPL by way of incremental training. You add-on controlled fields, cross-countries, etc. as you need them in sport pilot. Eventually, as your confidence, competence, & needs grow, you can easily upgrade to ppl, say for extra seats or to add an instrument rating.

I’ve been a ppl since ‘72, but an infrequent pilot over the decades. I’m just now getting back into the sport of flying in a serious way as an E-LSA owner-builder. At 69, meds & medical conditions have piled up. My AME is confident I could eventually get the required SIs for a 3rd class medical out of OKC, there is nothing severe going on. But what had once been a predictable trickle of decisions out of OKC has been frozen to a sporadic, glacial drip by the pandemic. Their backlog is epic.

My typical real-world mission is the wife & I boring holes in the sky. Me perfecting touchdowns on a grassy field. Us flying out to fly-ins, appreciating the fall colors in the Blue Ridge from the air, whale watching near the Capes, running just off-shore along the sand at sunset.

I can do those things today with a Sport Pilot.
 
I can think of three reasons to get the sport certificate. Two and three are related:
  1. Medical. If you are concerned about qualifying for a third class certificate but want to fly, stick with sport.
  2. Based on the privileges of a sport pilot, that's all you think you will ever need.
  3. Based on the privileges' of a sport pilot, you want to exercise those privileges (especially carrying a passenger) sooner rather than later.
I think 2 and 3 are related in that, in either case you may want to continue onto the private after experiencing sport privileges - and limitations - for a while. Fortunately, if you look at the requirements for both, you've covered many already, and may cover others in the process of expanding sport privileges, so the transition from sport to private isn't that difficult.
 
In case you’re new: just to emphasize the 3rd class gotha: if you ask the question officially, by taking the 3rd class medical with an AME and failing, you are banned from even a sport flying certificate.

Instead, first make an “advisory consultation” appointment with the AME. Go through a mock-physical, review all of your meds & medical procedures & devices (if you have sleep apnea, as I do, you’ll need 1 yrs of nightly sleep records from your cpap machine—but most machines only keeps 3-6 months worth of records (if you have less, then OKC wants an SI). Never fill out the on-line FAA OKC form to get a number you give the AME before you go. He might look you up & try to dick you, even if the examination was advisory. But use the form as a guide to looking up acceptable & prohibited medications.

At all cost avoid a deferment to OKC for a discussion. If there are problems or questions along the way, get the AME to clarify guidance from the regional flight surgeon, not FAA OKC. Handle anything locally or with regional before you apply for the 3rd class officially.

wording is important. I recently read about a case where the AME noted the loss of a finger or two, no explanation. OKC requested more info, which dragged out the process and was veering into special evaluation by a specialist & an Med SI. (The guy had lost a finger, as most of us do, in a table saw accident 20 yrs before).
 
midlifeflyer said:
I can think of three reasons to get the sport certificate. Two and three are related:
  1. Medical. If you are concerned about qualifying for a third class certificate but want to fly, stick with sport.
  2. Based on the privileges of a sport pilot, that's all you think you will ever need.
  3. Based on the privileges' of a sport pilot, you want to exercise those privileges (especially carrying a passenger) sooner rather than later.
I think 2 and 3 are related in that, in either case you may want to continue onto the private after experiencing sport privileges - and limitations - for a while. Fortunately, if you look at the requirements for both, you've covered many already, and may cover others in the process of expanding sport privileges, so the transition from sport to private isn't that difficult.
Click to expand...


There’s also a 1(a). That’s when you’re sure you can get a medical, but it will take a long time or involve great expense, and maintaining an SI would also be onerous and require tests that aren’t medically necessary. Basic Med can be an option but you still have to go through the one-time hassle (which is what I did).
 
Hector Parra said:
I met a guy the other day at my flight school who is getting his Recreational Permit as he only expects to fly LSA. It makes me wonder if you should still go for PPL even if you only intend to fly LSA (which is my personal case). Should you start with RP and upgrade to PPL on the go, or should you get your PPL from the start?

Off course there's major differences between a License and a Permit, that's why I decided to go PPL even when I have LSA in mind. What will be your thoughts on that? (Will love to hear also from those folks who switched from Certified to LSA for medical reasons).
Click to expand...
If you can pass the medical, I'd go for PPL unless you really enjoy taking checkrides and written tests. (I wouldn't think its that much more studying for ppl vs. sport, but if you do both you get double the written tests and checkrides)
 
If the medical is a problem, just get a sport license.

If the medical is not a problem, go for the ppl. Minimal extra training and they would never have to repeat the written and checkride.
 
I got my sport first, even though I had a class 3, simply because I learned to fly in a light sport. I never intended to fly anything else, really, and I my goal was just to learn to fly. But there are enough little caveats and limitations on sport that it made sense to get my private. So I did that about a year later. I don't regret the 2-step process at all, though, and I'm happy I learned in a light sport first.

To me, there are four main advantages of a private over a sport: the ability to fly larger aircraft, and at night; the ability to get an instrument rating; having a certificate that isn't just OK in the US; and finally, not having to answer the question "why just a sport pilot" every time you talk to another pilot.

Recreational I don't understand at all. It doesn't require any less paperwork than private, is doesn't require significantly or maybe even measurably less time or cost. And it has weird limitations.

My 2 cents, learn in a light sport first, but get your private. Ideally, in the same plane because that'll be faster and cheaper.
 
Albany Tom said:
Recreational I don't understand at all. It doesn't require any less paperwork than private, is doesn't require significantly or maybe even measurably less time or cost. And it has weird limitations.
Click to expand...
I think you just described why it was a flop! (Very few people went the recreational-pilot route.)
 
Hector Parra said:
I met a guy the other day at my flight school who is getting his Recreational Permit as he only expects to fly LSA. It makes me wonder if you should still go for PPL even if you only intend to fly LSA (which is my personal case). Should you start with RP and upgrade to PPL on the go, or should you get your PPL from the start?

Off course there's major differences between a License and a Permit, that's why I decided to go PPL even when I have LSA in mind. What will be your thoughts on that? (Will love to hear also from those folks who switched from Certified to LSA for medical reasons).
Click to expand...

What is a PPL?
 
LSA rentals are challenging to find near Chicago without a long drive (only available at 2 maybe 3 airports).

Skyhawk, Warrior or Sundowners (sometimes even Diamond and Cirrus) are available at every airport here. LSA is much tougher to locate.

I agree with many above. If you’re 100% confident in the 3rd class, get your private. You can always buy/rent an LSA and fly during the day but you would also be able to rent a Cessna 150 or 172, which might be more available, and legally fly those.
 
It is less expensive and less hassle to go the LSA route.
 
Terry M - 3CK (Chicago) said:
LSA rentals are challenging to find near Chicago without a long drive (only available at 2 maybe 3 airports).

Skyhawk, Warrior or Sundowners (sometimes even Diamond and Cirrus) are available at every airport here. LSA is much tougher to locate
Click to expand...
This is probably the biggest argument. Even 150s are everywhere.

Hopefully FAA MOSAIC will open up the field- it's hard to guess on how much, but I'm becoming confident we'll know the shape of it this year.
 
Terry M - 3CK (Chicago) said:
...I agree with many above. If you’re 100% confident in the 3rd class, get your private. You can always buy/rent an LSA and fly during the day but you would also be able to rent a Cessna 150 or 172, which might be more available, and legally fly those.
Click to expand...
Pilots who are exercising sport-pilot privileges are limited to daytime flying, but there are LSAs that are legal for night flight for a private pilot or above who has a medical certificate or BasicMed.
 
Last edited:
apilotb said:
I couldn't find that definition in the FARs. I thought PPL was the shorthand slang for "people". Or Pennsylvania Power and Light.
Click to expand...
The FARs have no authority over how people express themselves in casual conversation.

Of course, if you want to get picky, the FAA doesn't approve of "FARs" either. :D
 
Palmpilot said:
The FARs have no authority over how people express themselves in casual conversation.

Of course, if you want to get picky, the FAA doesn't approve of "FARs" either. :D
Click to expand...

Don’t forget the Flight Review vs BFR fight, or the student vs learner debate.
 
And of course the thread title is referring to a private pilot license license! :D
 
In 2004 I earned my PP taking lessons from January to December. It took me 75 hours. At the time the argument between PP and LS was the privileges to take more passengers, fly more different airplanes, fly XC, and fly at night. If you consider that the LS checkride can occur sooner, with fewer privileges, are you really going to stop there? You are going to want XC training so you can travel right? You are going to want the option of flying at night sooner or later, especially in fall or winter? When you start thinking of buying your own bird, or getting in a partnership, used certificated airplanes can be found in good flyable condition for $30k vs $130k for light sport. So counting time and money to the minimum Light Sport Certificate doesn't give you an accurate tally of what it takes to get in all the flying you will want to do. Add to that you will need 2 check rides if you get LS first then go for the private pilot. Yes, going for the PP takes more time and money. But I believe it is worth it in the long run.
 
William Pete Hodges said:
In 2004 I earned my PP taking lessons from January to December. It took me 75 hours. At the time the argument between PP and LS was the privileges to take more passengers, fly more different airplanes, fly XC, and fly at night. If you consider that the LS checkride can occur sooner, with fewer privileges, are you really going to stop there? You are going to want XC training so you can travel right? You are going to want the option of flying at night sooner or later, especially in fall or winter? When you start thinking of buying your own bird, or getting in a partnership, used certificated airplanes can be found in good flyable condition for $30k vs $130k for light sport. So counting time and money to the minimum Light Sport Certificate doesn't give you an accurate tally of what it takes to get in all the flying you will want to do. Add to that you will need 2 check rides if you get LS first then go for the private pilot. Yes, going for the PP takes more time and money. But I believe it is worth it in the long run.
Click to expand...



Where did you ever get the idea that Sport Pilots can’t fly XC? SPs can fly anywhere in the US and the Bahamas, and many folks take quite long XCs in their LSAs.

Considering the high dropout rate for PP students, I think doing the SP checkride halfway through is a great idea. Sort of like taking an Associates degree en route to a Bachelors. Even if you don’t finish the entire curriculum, at least you will have something tangible and useful rather than a big fat zero.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top