Should I buy, join a flying club, co-own, or keep waiting?

Should I buy, join a flying club, co-own, or keep waiting?

  • Buy a plane solo

    Votes: 4 16.0%

  • Co-own a plane with one person

    Votes: 1 4.0%

  • Join a small flying club (10 or less)

    Votes: 7 28.0%

  • Join a large flying club (40+)

    Votes: 1 4.0%

  • Just wait until you have a PPL and decide then

    Votes: 12 48.0%
  • Total voters
    25
Sudburian

Sudburian

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Joined
Mar 8, 2021
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88
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Arizona
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Display name:
Sudburian
I have been collecting opinions from pilot friends/colleagues on this for several months now, and everyone I talk to is all over the map. This thread probably will be the same but no harm in hearing even more unbiased perspectives as I figure out what I want to do.

My life circumstances: Nearing the big five-oh, happily married, teenage kid, 3 dogs, pretty decent financial budget.

Aviation circumstances: finished ground school, waiting on FAA medical but it looks fine, taken 4 sporadic flying lessons mainly for fun but won't start in earnest until Arizona's cooler weather.

Aviation goals: to become a safe and competent low-hours, VFR pilot who will probably fly around the Southwestern US for my first few years while I gain experience and skills, for 3-day weekends when I can. Long term, maybe I'll graduate to a bigger plane that can take me to Boston for fun, or Mexico City for fun. But that's for another day far down the road. First let me figure out how to fly to Santa Fe for fun, with at most my wife in the plane with me. (Maybe my St. Bernard too, weight permitting). For a first plane, I have a heavy bias in favor of Cessnas, as I train in a 172. I like the C-182. Arizona's heat also predisposes me to high-wing airplanes. Piper Warriors are cool too though. And Cirrus, though those are likely out of my price range for solo ownership.

The options I keep weighing: (1) Buy my own plane outright and train in it this fall, which is financially doable. (2) Co-own a plane with an experienced CFI or mechanic to benefit from a wiser pilot than me. (3) Join a flying club consisting of about 10 members. (4) Join a flying club consisting of 40 members.

When I ask a CFI in town who I consult with often, he doesn't seem to think that the safety and skill-gaining factors really play into this decision. It doesn't matter on those factors, in other words. Well, if that's true, what are the good reasons I should buy or even co-own right now at this early stage? Why not just keep renting from my flight school, become more knowledgeable with my PPL in hand, and make a buying decision then? Appreciate any and all insights!
 
I'm most likely in the minority. If you really believe in this flying thing and can afford a plane, buy it and learn in it. I learned in the 182. It won't be much of a step from the 172 and you will probably use it a bit longer before you transition. Otherwise join the bigger club with more planes. If you train in your own plane you really want a CFI that will teach you the plane and not just flying. Unfortunately 182 prices are pretty crazy. I think the co-ownership with a mechanic would be ideal but might be really hard to find. Same goes for a CFI thus I didn't vote for that one.

FWIW - when you factor in hangar, engine reserve and insurance the training in your own plane will not be as much of a cost savings as you might think. Especially if you use a CFI from a big FBO where they increase prices for not using their plane. Also, get to know some mechanics now. If you do purchase you want them finding everything up front. That can mean a couple of airline trips and hotel nights to go see it, more to ferry it, etc. That also would put a good dent in pure rentals to learn.

Having your own plane....awesome.

If you are really busy at work, renting to get your PPL will be a bit easier on your limited free time. When you own your own plane you need to hangar it, get fuel, clean it, etc. That adds more time each morning or evening. What might take a renter 90minutes might take an owner another 30 minutes or more. Its a good thing but worth mentioning if time is tight.
 
I wouldn't buy right now simply because you don't know what you like or even how much you'll fly just yet. I'd probably recommend one of the flying clubs, especially if they have a few different aircraft to choose from. Most of the time it's not a ton of money to join a flying club and it gets you some good hours built up a bit cheaper than renting from a commercial outfit. You may find out that your significant other doesn't like flying much, or wants something to go faster/further than Santa Fe, and that could change the type of aircraft you desire.

I also wouldn't buy to do your training simply because trainer aircraft go through a lot of hard hours with lots of time at full power doing lots of stalls, takeoffs, etc. as well as some potentially rough landings. If let the rental C172 take the abuse, then you can get into something of your own once you've got the Private ticket.
 
Where do/would you fly out of? You have to think about where to keep it out of the sun.
 
It depends. Do you have the money to own what you want, will you fly it enough and will you still have money for the impending money pit that is college?
 
In the last 2.5 years I've earned my private & instrument and bought an airplane. I would say that the learning curve was approximately equal for all three. When I was going through the airplane search, purchase, and initial few months of ownership, I was really glad I wasn't trying to train at the same time.

The right club is a really great way to do it. The per hour cost can be as cheap or cheaper than owning, and if there's a problem you can let the maintenence officer deal with it. I don't know that the club size matters as much as the pilot: plane ratio and the club culture. You will be frustrated with scheduling if there's more than about 10 active pilots per plane. An active club with a good culture will provide a support network for your training.
 
Ahemm... first we need to talk more about these three dogs...

a) Are they *all* St. Bernards? Or just one of them? What are the other two?
b) Do they all need to fit in the plane?
c) Do you have adorable pictures of them? Preferably in or around a plane?
d) Who's a good boy? (You are!) Awwww who's a GOOD BOY! (YOU ARE!)


All four of your options can be good options if done sensibly. And you seem like a sensible sort with a realistic attitude.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Where do/would you fly out of? You have to think about where to keep it out of the sun.
Click to expand...

Most likely the Phoenix area, KDVT or KGEU. We have a family place in northern Arizona so that's a possibility but probably not convenient. I'd rather fly up there, not drive up there and then fly.
 
kath said:
Ahemm... first we need to talk more about these three dogs...

a) Are they *all* St. Bernards? Or just one of them? What are the other two?
b) Do they all need to fit in the plane?
c) Do you have adorable pictures of them? Preferably in or around a plane?
d) Who's a good boy? (You are!) Awwww who's a GOOD BOY! (YOU ARE!)


All four of your options can be good options if done sensibly. And you seem like a sensible sort with a realistic attitude.
Click to expand...

Since I've found a kindred spirit I will obviously have to post a pic shortly. Our big baby is a St. Bernard. The other two girls who boss him around are a 15-pound bichon-poodle and a 25 pound jack russell/italian greyhound mix (all 3 are rescues). I assume that one day, in a big enough plane, I could fit all 3 of them. But I'll have to seriously consider the danger factor of my Saint Bernard demanding to jump into my seat and fly the plane, which I know he will. Even if he tries to kill me he will still be a GOOD BOY OH YES HE IS.
 
As you might guess, I second the buy a plane idea. It is just very nice to be able to take your keys and go the hangar and fly when you feel like it (once you have soloed of course).

It will not be the most affordable option, but not too bad either in terms of expense. You could start with a small trainer like a C150 for learning and will definitely be able to sell it and upgrade later to something more suitable for flying up north in AZ.

If you will do this, it is good to find a mentor in airplane ownership.

For an upgrade I can highly recommend the Cardinal! I actually bought my Cardinal pre-solo and while I debated it for a few weeks, I have never regretted the decision.
 
There are a few factors that go in to the decision.

1. What kind of plane do you need to fit your intended mission? You don't know that yet, because you will likely redefine, if not define your mission after you get your PPL and start flying for reasons other than training.

2. What kind of plane to you want to fly? Be real, a Gulfstream jet is probably out of your reach. Again, you don't know that yet because you don't have a ton of experience flying different planes. Or any, if I read correctly. Lean to drive on a Corolla, then decide if you want to buy a Lamborghini, a Cadillac STS, or an F250.

3. How much are you going to fly? The general breakpoint between owning and renting is 150 hours per year. If you fly more than that in a year, buy. Otherwise, rent. Obviously, a partnership will affect the economics, but once you start getting in to more than three partners, you have most of the disadvantages of renting, schedule wise. And by the way, if it takes you more than 150 hours to get your PPL, you have other things going on and you probably don't want to be stuck with an airplane you need to sell.

4. You don't even know if you like flying. You probably will, I mean, flying is just cool. But if you're renting and find out it's not your thing, it's NBFD. Otherwise, you need to sell and airplane, and airplanes are hard to sell.
 
For where you are right now, I'm with Sooner Aviation, keep renting. It's a lot cheaper to learn on someone else's equity. Take your time and see if you can try out different models to see what you like.

You don't have to find a CFI or A&P as a partner later on. Another pilot or two would be good. I've been in three partnerships /groups now with 3 to 4 pilots. Still lots of availability on the plane.

You can always buy solo later on as you learn more.



Wayne
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
As you might guess, I second the buy a plane idea. It is just very nice to be able to take your keys and go the hangar and fly when you feel like it (once you have soloed of course).

It will not be the most affordable option, but not too bad either in terms of expense. You could start with a small trainer like a C150 for learning and will definitely be able to sell it and upgrade later to something more suitable for flying up north in AZ.

If you will do this, it is good to find a mentor in airplane ownership.

For an upgrade I can highly recommend the Cardinal! I actually bought my Cardinal pre-solo and while I debated it for a few weeks, I have never regretted the decision.
Click to expand...

Your Cardinal is definitely pretty cool. Those are on the table too!
 
Sudburian said:
Your Cardinal is definitely pretty cool. Those are on the table too!
Click to expand...

Thanks. You can see this really is a value choice and so there are a lot of viable options.

If you want the cheapest way to train, probably keep renting until you have your private.

If you value the flexibility and freedom, buy.
 
I wish I were near a club that had a handful of choices in rides. A club might even provide member instructors so you could change and get differing perspectives and personalities without hurting anyone's feelings.
 
In all seriousness, if you can find a small club with a decent airplane, good members, and not too heavily scheduled airplane it can be a really good route to go.
 
If you can and don’t mind spending a lot of money. Buy your own. Yeah t will cost more, but there is a certain feeling of having your own plane. It’s always the way you want it, other people aren’t leaving garbage, and it’s your schedule no one else’s.

The only better option is find a partnership with a mechanic. That’s what I have and all the MX is much cheaper.
 
I'd wait until post-solo and then re-evaluate your choices. Give your wants and desires a chance to solidify a bit.
 
Your responses have been super helpful, thank you everyone. My brain has been trying to organize the pros and cons of these options, so seeing them listed out here accomplished that. The poll results probably lean toward what I'm thinking at the moment: the plurality winning option at 38% is to join a small flying club, with second place at 30% being to just wait a while.

One downside I hadn't thought of before of buying outright, solo, right now, is the time and work it will take me to figure out how to become a good and responsible plane owner.

I appreciate this community and being able to be part of it.
 
"It depends". What would work best for you? For me, the cost of belonging to a club is far less than any other of the other options. Our club (which I have belonged to for about 21 years) limits memberships to 50. For most of those years we had 4 airplanes and now have 3. A pair of C-172s and a C-182. I can think of about 3 times in 21 years when I couldn't get a plane to fly. Might not have gotten my first choice in all cases, but except for those 3 times I got something that would do the job (convert 100LL to noise). It doesn't hurt that in any given year we have about 1/3 of the membership who do not fly a club plane. I love those members. They help subsidize my hangar rent and insurance while not completing with me for cockpit time. Oh, and the planes are well maintained and kept reasonably up to date in the avionics department. If you find a squawk you call the maintenance officer for that plane and the issue is taken care of.
 
Seriously, there's no justification, it's nearly all cons, with pretty much just one pro. Still, my choice is buy the plane.
 
I'll put my vote in for owning the plane with one person, especially an experienced pilot or A&P. People talk about the cost of owning your own plane, but they don't talk about the responsibility. I'm not particularly mechanically inclined, and owning your plane means you are responsible (as PIC) for understanding every system insofar as it impacts airworthiness. I've benefited enormously by having another pilot to talk to about maintenance issues, and learning from more experienced pilots how to maintain the airplane without immediately running to a A&P.
 
I'll jump in on the flying club...club. I got my PPL in a club with ~50 members, though only about 15-20 of us were technically 'active' and fewer than (5-10 maybe?) that actually flew somewhat consistently. It was a great way to get affordable access to trying a few different a/c types. I did initial training in a 152 (slow and steady enough to figure things out without feeling behind the plane), did some training in the 172 when the 152 wasn't available, got checked out in both the PA28-180 and PA28-181 for some light xc fun flights. When I met the hour requirements, I got up to the 177RG for better xc performance. Unfortunately, they sold the 210 before I could get checked out in it. Not sure how else I would have been able to get meaningful experience in those a/c types without being in the club.

With that said, I did my IR training in the RV-7A that my dad and I built, and can fully appreciate the ability to get the plane exactly when you want it and knowing what condition it was left in and if it's down for mx, it's my own darn fault.
 
Sudburian said:
Your responses have been super helpful, thank you everyone. My brain has been trying to organize the pros and cons of these options, so seeing them listed out here accomplished that. The poll results probably lean toward what I'm thinking at the moment: the plurality winning option at 38% is to join a small flying club, with second place at 30% being to just wait a while.

One downside I hadn't thought of before of buying outright, solo, right now, is the time and work it will take me to figure out how to become a good and responsible plane owner.

I appreciate this community and being able to be part of it.
Click to expand...

Just keep in mind that even if you decide to continue to rent or join a flying club, those aren't especially "expensive" aviation choices in the short term. If you join the flying club for a year or two to build hours and try out some different aircraft/refine your mission requirements, you can then look at buying an aircraft of your own or entering into a partnership. Most flying clubs don't have exorbitant entry fees, and the ones that do have high entry costs are normally refundable when you leave. Nothing wrong with waiting to buy for a year or two while you sort it out, maybe you'll get lucky and the used aircraft prices will have eased a bit so you can get into one a bit cheaper than trying to buy right now.
 
If it flies, floats or fu*ks, it’s cheaper to rent.

Owning a plane gets more expensive every year. Unless you are going to fly the wings off it, find a club or partners to reduce cost.

I put a V8 engine on my C172 and got my cost down to less than $20/hr, but my hanger rent went up almost 2x in last couple of years, and insurance also continues to increase (it cost same as a stock C172). There’s fewer A&P’s and they are over $100/hr now.

if you do consider buying something, I’d look into a used experimental or something that burns car gas. AVGAS days are numbered with last fuel STC just issued it will cost almost a buck more…. This type will reduce you overall cost and you can work on experimental yourself, saving more $. Certified aircraft are antiques and everything cost more. There are plenty of owners in my same hanger that hardly fly because of the cost.

there are 2 types of flying club, equity (members own part of each plane) and non equity…. On equity clubs are cheaper to join but normal more expensive to fly, but you can walk away cheaply if you don’t like it. I’m a member of a Denver area club with several plane types, including Bonanzas and twins, that cost only $100 year dues.

If you buy a plane before you have a PPL you are nuts and deserve to have your medical cert revoked. Your insurance will be 2x the cost, you won’t be able to do even the owner maintenance allowed by part 43, and going in blind……anyone telling you its a great idea is either a broker or thinks you are a multi millionaire….. buy renters insurance and build the learning curve elsewhere.

You will find this out the first time your $2000 radio fails, your annual can’t be signed off because of a slightly low compression on 1 cylinder or there’s a list of several small things that add up to thousands, generator fails, starter won’t engage, magnetos acting goofy, you prop strike, ect.. this stuff eventually happens and you soon realize you are spending money on stuff that does not even increase the planes value…. But you have no choice but to pay. Insurance is going to be a big problem, there are few writers, and if you make a claim your renewal cost will likely be at far more cost if you get offer to renew. This is becoming a substantial ownership challenge for many.

Good luck. May the force be with you.
 
Sudburian said:
I have been collecting opinions from pilot friends/colleagues on this for several months now, and everyone I talk to is all over the map. This thread probably will be the same but no harm in hearing even more unbiased perspectives as I figure out what I want to do.

My life circumstances: Nearing the big five-oh, happily married, teenage kid, 3 dogs, pretty decent financial budget.

Aviation circumstances: finished ground school, waiting on FAA medical but it looks fine, taken 4 sporadic flying lessons mainly for fun but won't start in earnest until Arizona's cooler weather.

Aviation goals: to become a safe and competent low-hours, VFR pilot who will probably fly around the Southwestern US for my first few years while I gain experience and skills, for 3-day weekends when I can. Long term, maybe I'll graduate to a bigger plane that can take me to Boston for fun, or Mexico City for fun. But that's for another day far down the road. First let me figure out how to fly to Santa Fe for fun, with at most my wife in the plane with me. (Maybe my St. Bernard too, weight permitting). For a first plane, I have a heavy bias in favor of Cessnas, as I train in a 172. I like the C-182. Arizona's heat also predisposes me to high-wing airplanes. Piper Warriors are cool too though. And Cirrus, though those are likely out of my price range for solo ownership.

The options I keep weighing: (1) Buy my own plane outright and train in it this fall, which is financially doable. (2) Co-own a plane with an experienced CFI or mechanic to benefit from a wiser pilot than me. (3) Join a flying club consisting of about 10 members. (4) Join a flying club consisting of 40 members.

When I ask a CFI in town who I consult with often, he doesn't seem to think that the safety and skill-gaining factors really play into this decision. It doesn't matter on those factors, in other words. Well, if that's true, what are the good reasons I should buy or even co-own right now at this early stage? Why not just keep renting from my flight school, become more knowledgeable with my PPL in hand, and make a buying decision then? Appreciate any and all insights!
Click to expand...
I bought in 2002, and my only regret is that I had some slow consulting years where I thought I might have to sell (never right away). Even when I fly less, I like having my own plane, and not having to consult/negotiate with partners, but that's a personality thing; others would enjoy the interactions.

The advantage of starting in a partnership would be not just cost savings, but the opportunity to learn about ownership from the other, more-experienced partners.
 
If you can afford it now, buy a 182. Its not like its going to be worth less in 2 years.
 
Buy if you can! If you don’t end up liking it sell it… good pre buy to minimize “gotcha” moments and fly! You will fly more if you own a bird period.
 
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