Shotgun Thread

SoonerAviator said:
I don't feel that a handgun would be our best solution for the infrequent shooter. I'd also like to use it to go out with friends/family on occasional bird hunts and such. Harder to do that with a handgun.
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I agree that bird hunting with a pistol would be something very few people could do ... and likely none would be real good at it. Reminds me of being a child and my dad telling me, "if you can put salt on a bird's tail, you can catch him."

Dale
 
SoonerAviator said:
Yeah, I thought about the 20ga as well, I guess I'd just have to see how much kick the 12ga had with non-magnum loads. She's not a small-framed woman by any means, so I don't worry about it knocking her to the ground, but I also don't her to absolutely hate the shotgun if it bruised her shoulder up just practicing.
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A 20ga makes an excellent home defense and bird hunting gun. Purchase with a shorter barrel with choke tubes. For home defense just use standard bird shot loads. Point blank kills but you do not have to worry about the innocent hiding in other rooms.

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Here's my KSG. I know there's been accidents with hands flying in front of the muzzle (yikes!) so having the muzzle brake and a grip with stop on the bottom helps to remedy that. With the limb saver (and KSG large recoil pad under that), 12GA slugs have a good shove, but not painful.

97C60B5A-87EC-4982-BED2-DB71143DD914.jpeg
 
rtk11 said:
Here's my KSG. I know there's been accidents with hands flying in front of the muzzle (yikes!) so having the muzzle brake and a grip with stop on the bottom helps to remedy that. With the limb saver (and KSG large recoil pad under that), 12GA slugs have a good shove, but not painful.

View attachment 84412
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I've never shot a KSG, but I did have a UTAS UTS-15 for a time. Neat shotgun, similar in concept to the KSG, just not something that was terribly practical. I moved it along about a year ago, and recently sold my SPAS-12. Both neat shotguns, with very limited uses.
 
Honestly I’d say if you want a nice hunting shotgun, get it. It’ll work for self defense but there’s better options. Even so, if it’s what you have it’ll work.

Learn about backstops with any gun in housing. Crap going through walls can hurt the wrong targets.

Frankly I want a tool that will put an intruder down for good as quickly as possible if I have to pull the trigger. Shotgun... maybe. You going to keep it loaded with slugs in close quarters indoors?

High speed expansion rounds and something I DON’T have to rack to make noise with, is more my speed. But everyone is comfortable with whatever they have TRAINED with.

The likelihood of needing it is awesomely low.

The likelihood of being surprised and not in a position to fiddle with fine motor skills or getting out a long gun, is pretty high.

Quite a bit of that depends on much simpler things like where entrance points are and how they’re secured, floors up/down layout, whether you have furry alert monsters... Etc etc etc.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I know we’ve had some replies in a few threads talking about good “survival” weapons/guns. I’m looking to find a nice hunting gun for all-around bird hunting but to also use as a home-protection weapon during the non-hunting seasons.

Figured something akin to a Remington 870 Wingmaster 28” and a spare 18.5” tactical barrel to keep on it when not hunting. Any suggestions to something similar? I’ll admit my knowledge of shotguns is pretty much non-existent, but I’d want something capable of 3” shells and the 870 has been made longer than I’ve been alive.
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I have one of these, a 12 ga Stoeger M2000. I dunno if it would be a good bird gun, but I suppose it's possible. :D

m3000-defense_0.png
 
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rtk11 said:
Here's my KSG. I know there's been accidents with hands flying in front of the muzzle (yikes!) so having the muzzle brake and a grip with stop on the bottom helps to remedy that. With the limb saver (and KSG large recoil pad under that), 12GA slugs have a good shove, but not painful.

View attachment 84412
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Look at the Tavor I posted. Similar, but has 3 5rd mag tubes. I much prefer the bullpup ergonomics to the traditional style shotguns.
 
gkainz said:
alright aright - make it stop! I've been biting my tongue since the first "rack it and they run" comment but just can't hold it in any longer. I taught concealed carry and self defense with a couple partners (2 from the CO sheriff dept) for a number of years. We all cringed when this OWT was tossed out.

Bad guys, when hearing a shotgun racked, do not soil themselves and run.
They think "I want that and I'm taking it! Follow the noise!"

One had better be prepared, practiced, and in the right mindset for what follows, and not rely on "I heard all you have to do is rack the shotgun!"
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I get it, but I still like the sound. Actually, if I have the shotgun out, a round is already chambered with the safety on. No racking needed, click the safety off, ready to go. Likewise, when I CCW, it's always condition one.
 
denverpilot said:
Honestly I’d say if you want a nice hunting shotgun, get it. It’ll work for self defense but there’s better options. Even so, if it’s what you have it’ll work.

Learn about backstops with any gun in housing. Crap going through walls can hurt the wrong targets.
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That's why the first two rounds are #6 bird. After that comes the 00.
 
denverpilot said:
Honestly I’d say if you want a nice hunting shotgun, get it. It’ll work for self defense but there’s better options. Even so, if it’s what you have it’ll work.

Learn about backstops with any gun in housing. Crap going through walls can hurt the wrong targets.

Frankly I want a tool that will put an intruder down for good as quickly as possible if I have to pull the trigger. Shotgun... maybe. You going to keep it loaded with slugs in close quarters indoors?

High speed expansion rounds and something I DON’T have to rack to make noise with, is more my speed. But everyone is comfortable with whatever they have TRAINED with.

The likelihood of needing it is awesomely low.

The likelihood of being surprised and not in a position to fiddle with fine motor skills or getting out a long gun, is pretty high.

Quite a bit of that depends on much simpler things like where entrance points are and how they’re secured, floors up/down layout, whether you have furry alert monsters... Etc etc etc.
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In our house, there are no rooms that share walls so to speak. Hard to explain but it’s a split level home with rock/brick walls in the living room and the bed rooms don’t abut each other aside from the upstairs bedroom being over the top of another bedroom. I don’t worry as much about things going through walls as much in this particular house just due to the nature of the design. It is a very important consideration though.
 
Bill Jennings said:
That's why the first two rounds are #6 bird. After that comes the 00.
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I’ve considered that as well. Having mixed rounds might be a decent extra safeguard in my case, even though my home has extremely low likelihood of things going through most walls (or of a home defense situation occurring at all).
 
This episode of Gun Talk tv is a great example of penetration of various rounds and loads.
 
gkainz said:
This episode of Gun Talk tv is a great example of penetration of various rounds and loads.
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That's a good one. I watched a few others with drywall experiments using #8/#4 bird shot as well as 00 Buck specifically.
 
I have an ancient 870 with a couple of barrels, and various attachments. I can load up more than a dozen shorty shells in an extended mag, but have to short-rack to prevent lockup.
It has been extremely reliable, and after shooting a few zillion magnum turkey loads through it, I just laugh when someone says that their hunting rifle has a kick. (I also have a couple of hunting rifles, in .223 and 30-06, and an M1A NM, none are close to the 870 in shoulder shoving.) I can technically shoot on my four acres, but as there are neighborhoods abutting, I don't want to come up on police radar. Unless I run out of food, then deer.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
I have an ancient 870 with a couple of barrels, and various attachments. I can load up more than a dozen shorty shells in an extended mag, but have to short-rack to prevent lockup.
It has been extremely reliable, and after shooting a few zillion magnum turkey loads through it, I just laugh when someone says that their hunting rifle has a kick. (I also have a couple of hunting rifles, in .223 and 30-06, and an M1A NM, none are close to the 870 in shoulder shoving.) I can technically shoot on my four acres, but as there are neighborhoods abutting, I don't want to come up on police radar. Unless I run out of food, then deer.
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I will put up my 300 WSM handloaded to max powder will give you a run for your money. And surprisingly my 30-30 has a hell of a kick.
 
In addition to the shotgun I have been thinking about a gun safe for it (and future handgun/rifles) as well. I would like to keep the shotgun loaded and racked with safety on, but I can't do that and leave it out in the bedroom/under the bed with little ones around. I think a 5-gun rifle safe with a bio-metric scanner should be sufficient to get in quickly (most claim 2.5-3 seconds) with keypad as a backup. Any other solutions on the safety/security of weapons? Once the kids are old enough, we'll introduce them to the guns and teach gun safety, but for now they're too young for that.
 
JB1842 said:
I will put up my 300 WSM handloaded to max powder will give you a run for your money. And surprisingly my 30-30 has a hell of a kick.
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I also have a Taurus Raging Bull in .454 Casull handgun. The particular loads I use have exactly the same muzzle energy of the 5.56 rounds I use in my Kalashnikov AK-74. It's just no fun to shoot (for me, as I'm not exactly a beefy individual, belly excluded) so it will go away when the current situation normalizes. I've also shot a Mauser-based .458 straight cartridge 'elephant gun'. I think that was the worst; the butt was very narrow, the gun an awkward layout, and the kick memorable.
I can put up with a lot of recoil, in general.
@SoonerAviator, I keep my goodies (guns, and some camera lenses that cost more than $10K) in a Liberty Fat Boy Jr. Large, but not too large; it sits in the corner of my music room.
 
SoonerAviator said:
In addition to the shotgun I have been thinking about a gun safe for it (and future handgun/rifles) as well. I would like to keep the shotgun loaded and racked with safety on, but I can't do that and leave it out in the bedroom/under the bed with little ones around. I think a 5-gun rifle safe with a bio-metric scanner should be sufficient to get in quickly (most claim 2.5-3 seconds) with keypad as a backup. Any other solutions on the safety/security of weapons? Once the kids are old enough, we'll introduce them to the guns and teach gun safety, but for now they're too young for that.
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I have an inquisitive 9 year old who I've taken shooting a few times. He's just the type to eff with things if unsupervised. I do not fear anyone breaking in to our home while we're here, so I don't need fast access to the guns. My biggest worries are the 9 year old and someone breaking in and stealing guns. So the gun cabinet (sheet metal version) is somewhere a burglar would be hard pressed to find it, and it is big and heavy enough that it would be a challenge to remove from its location. To protect it from the 9 year old (who'll be 12, 14, or 16 soon enough), the keys are stored somewhere he's unlikely to find.
 
kyleb said:
I have an inquisitive 9 year old who I've taken shooting a few times. He's just the type to eff with things if unsupervised. I do not fear anyone breaking in to our home while we're here, so I don't need fast access to the guns. My biggest worries are the 9 year old and someone breaking in and stealing guns. So the gun cabinet (sheet metal version) is somewhere a burglar would be hard pressed to find it, and it is big and heavy enough that it would be a challenge to remove from its location. To protect it from the 9 year old (who'll be 12, 14, or 16 soon enough), the keys are stored somewhere he's unlikely to find.
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Same here. The home security is a secondary use for this shotgun, but I don't want to go out and drop $5K on handguns, AR builds, hunting shotgun, plus a gun safe, lol. I wanted to keep it fairly simple starting off, and my kids both being under 4 yrs old have no concept of restraint. Theft would be a larger concern, but that's still a minimal chance as we live in an extremely low-crime area as it is. I'd just throw the gun safe in a location in one of the master bedroom closets so that it wouldn't be readily visible if someone did break in and I could probably secure it to the wall so that stealing the entire 80+lbs safe + guns would be problematic for a smash-n-grab situation.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I think a 5-gun rifle safe with a bio-metric scanner should be sufficient to get in quickly (most claim 2.5-3 seconds) with keypad as a backup. Any other solutions on the safety/security of weapons?
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Be ultra careful about going bio-metric. I've found that I can't use my iphone about half the time in the winter, as it won't see me touching the screen. Doesn't matter if the screen protector is on or off it. I get so frustrated sometimes,, I want to throw it down the ramp at work. Funny thing is that when it starts doing it, anyone around me can make it work, but I can't.
 
I've got an 870 (in realwoods camo) that I got cheap. It looks like the guy I bought it from rarely used it. It's the one gun I keep loaded in the safe as it's my GroundHog varmint killer. I've got all the removable chokes for it, but rarely have done much with them. I did use it to fire some flash and confetti rounds one new years as well.

As for a gun safe, spent of lot of time researching them and decided on a Liberty. I was going to get the smallest one but the local dealer said if I could take the next model up, he'd give it to me for the same price as he had one in inventory that he'd been sitting on. What was great about it is that it had the older (and in my opinion) nicer S&G dial on it rather than te new one.

All of the biometric ones I've seen have back up combos anyway. It takes me less than two seconds to punch in the six digit combo on the one on my safe.
 
SoonerAviator said:
In addition to the shotgun I have been thinking about a gun safe for it (and future handgun/rifles) as well. I would like to keep the shotgun loaded and racked with safety on, but I can't do that and leave it out in the bedroom/under the bed with little ones around. I think a 5-gun rifle safe with a bio-metric scanner should be sufficient to get in quickly (most claim 2.5-3 seconds) with keypad as a backup. Any other solutions on the safety/security of weapons? Once the kids are old enough, we'll introduce them to the guns and teach gun safety, but for now they're too young for that.
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a friend of mine uses this one
https://www.hornadysecurity.com/rapid-safes/shotgun-wall-lock#!/

Edit - my mistake - that one doesn't cover the trigger. It's this one (or similar) for alongside the nightstand.
https://www.shotlock.com/shotgun


I don't have kids in the house any more, except when the grandkids come over (pre lockdown) but before they do come over, I lock up everything that's not on my body. I use conventional gun safe(s)
 
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Kenny Phillips said:
I can technically shoot on my four acres, but as there are neighborhoods abutting, I don't want to come up on police radar. Unless I run out of food, then deer.
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I live in an area where the country says it is legal to discharge a firearm. A classic example of what is legal isn't safe. 10,000 (+/-) square foot lots, etc. The neighbors would very rightly come unglued if I uncorked a round, even if it was at one of the forest rats (deer) that love my wife's flowers.
 
Ghery said:
I live in an area where the country says it is legal to discharge a firearm. A classic example of what is legal isn't safe. 10,000 (+/-) square foot lots, etc.
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Is it really legal there? Here, we have setback requirements from public roads and property lines, which means you are basically closed down if you're in a subdivision.

When my grandparents had a 110 acre farm, the police used to "pay us a visit" every time we went target shooting (this was just outside Marietta - a suburb of Atlanta). I think they were just bothering us because the neighbors liked having 110 acres of undeveloped land next door, right up until the point where someone did something on the 110 acres that they couldn't do in their subdivision. Also, it ruined the peace and harmony from having a forest next door. The police would usually show up, ask what we were doing, asked if we knew the laws around outdoor discharge of weapons, etc. "I'm shooting at paper targets. I know the rules, and am following them. Is there anything else I can do for you?"
 
gkainz said:
I don't have kids in the house any more, except when the grandkids come over (pre lockdown) but before they do come over, I lock up everything that's not on my body. I use conventional gun safe(s)
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You and I are in the same situation with children & grand children. If there is a unlocked firearm in my house it's on my person. I do have a purpose built safe and at night I'll unlock it and leave my keys there. That's in case I need something more than I have at the bedside. The next day I can't leave without my keys so retrieving them is a reminder to lock the safe.

Dale
 
SoonerAviator said:
In addition to the shotgun I have been thinking about a gun safe for it (and future handgun/rifles) as well. I would like to keep the shotgun loaded and racked with safety on, but I can't do that and leave it out in the bedroom/under the bed with little ones around. I think a 5-gun rifle safe with a bio-metric scanner should be sufficient to get in quickly (most claim 2.5-3 seconds) with keypad as a backup. Any other solutions on the safety/security of weapons? Once the kids are old enough, we'll introduce them to the guns and teach gun safety, but for now they're too young for that.
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If you are considering any bio-metric locking mechanism, view some of the videos made by LockPickingLawyer on YouTube.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
If you are considering any bio-metric locking mechanism, view some of the videos made by LockPickingLawyer on YouTube.
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Watched a few of the videos on YouTube. It seems most of his complaints aren't with the biometric part of it (aside from trying to access while fingers are dirty or wet), it was with the backup lock mechanism using a key. I'll have to hope that I don't need to access it when running out of the shower with no towel, lol. I'd also insist on having one which had a keypad of some sort as a backup in case the scanner didn't work on the first try or two.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Watched a few of the videos on YouTube. It seems most of his complaints aren't with the biometric part of it (aside from trying to access while fingers are dirty or wet), it was with the backup lock mechanism using a key. I'll have to hope that I don't need to access it when running out of the shower with no towel, lol. I'd also insist on having one which had a keypad of some sort as a backup in case the scanner didn't work on the first try or two.
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A lot of them allowed access to the reset button, which would allow someone to set their fingerprint (or code, depending on lock type) as the requirement for opening. I like spinning knobs for security, along with a piece that is carried on my person.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
A lot of them allowed access to the reset button, which would allow someone to set their fingerprint (or code, depending on lock type) as the requirement for opening. I like spinning knobs for security, along with a piece that is carried on my person.
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Hard to spin a combination lock in the dark and hope you don’t miss a digit in the sequence! I’d settle for a keyed lock at that point.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
A lot of them allowed access to the reset button, which would allow someone to set their fingerprint (or code, depending on lock type) as the requirement for opening. I like spinning knobs for security, along with a piece that is carried on my person.
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At least one could be reprogrammed while locked using just a fork, and one could be opened with a spoon while locked.
 
SoonerAviator said:
She likes the idea of a handgun more, but I don't want to rely on her trying to stop intruders with a 9mm or 40 cal handgun in my absence.
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How well does she shoot handgun? My wife can usually score right up with me on LTC qualification scores, and I think she maintains that skill with less effort.

SoonerAviator said:
Ideally, I've got it racked and safety off with finger on bang switch before I ever leave the bedroom to investigate the disturbance.
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Please consider that maybe your trigger finger should be resting on the frame above the trigger? If you are startled by someone you don’t expect to be there, but is friendly, you would hate to have it go off before you made a conscious decision. Kid home from college early, spouse back from business trip early, brother got kicked out of his house, or neighbor with a copy of the key who saw water running out your front door, and thought you were away? Plenty of possible scenarios, and making the conscious decision to move the finger from the frame to the trigger doesn’t add much delay.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I know we’ve had some replies in a few threads talking about good “survival” weapons/guns. I’m looking to find a nice hunting gun for all-around bird hunting but to also use as a home-protection weapon during the non-hunting seasons.

Figured something akin to a Remington 870 Wingmaster 28” and a spare 18.5” tactical barrel to keep on it when not hunting. Any suggestions to something similar? I’ll admit my knowledge of shotguns is pretty much non-existent, but I’d want something capable of 3” shells and the 870 has been made longer than I’ve been alive.
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I have an Ithaca Model 87 Featherlight. It takes 3” shells. Good bird gun, I dunno. I don’t think the bird does either. Why 3” shells? Do you have a bunch of them?
 
-KLB- said:
How well does she shoot handgun? My wife can usually score right up with me on LTC qualification scores, and I think she maintains that skill with less effort.



Please consider that maybe your trigger finger should be resting on the frame above the trigger? If you are startled by someone you don’t expect to be there, but is friendly, you would hate to have it go off before you made a conscious decision. Kid home from college early, spouse back from business trip early, brother got kicked out of his house, or neighbor with a copy of the key who saw water running out your front door, and thought you were away? Plenty of possible scenarios, and making the conscious decision to move the finger from the frame to the trigger doesn’t add much delay.
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Wife hasn’t shot a gun in over a decade, so it would take a good bit of practice for her to even get up to speed.

I was being a bit colloquial with my terminology about the finger on trigger. It’s good practice to leave trigger finger on the frame until on target and identified, didn’t mean to imply I was shooting first and asking questions later.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Wife hasn’t shot a gun in over a decade, so it would take a good bit of practice for her to even get up to speed.

I was being a bit colloquial with my terminology about the finger on trigger. It’s good practice to leave trigger finger on the frame until on target and identified, didn’t mean to imply I was shooting first and asking questions later.
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What questions would you ask a bird?
 
For cost, utility, & usefulness a pump shotgun is hard to beat. I’d much rather an older ‘Wingmaster’ than current production on the rack. Check local Armslist to see what’s around, of course use precautions with any meet.
 
sourdough44 said:
For cost, utility, & usefulness a pump shotgun is hard to beat. I’d much rather an older ‘Wingmaster’ than current production on the rack. Check local Armslist to see what’s around, of course use precautions with any meet.
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Armslist isn't bad. I've had success with Gunbroker both buying and selling.
 
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