Severe Insonmia. Need help.

C

Can’t Sleep

Guest
Just need to rant/advice about a horrible situation.

27 year old FO working for a Regional Airline.

I sleep fine at home. Used to sleep fine on the job.

However, recently, for two straight trips, I haven’t been able to fall asleep.

The night before, try to fall asleep around 6pm to get up around 3am for my commute. Not a single hour of sleep.

Sleep is progressively getting worse and worse whenever there is a time. I’ve used up 3/4 of my sick calls this year and my sick bank is dried up.

I was trying to use this job to get out of enotionally/financially abusive household as well as about 30k in debt from being in said household, but it seems futile. Would I be able to qualify for supplemental disability? My company’s disability pays nowhere near enough to survive.

It’s hard enough to come to terms that more than likely I’ll never fly again. I’m just trying to avoid being broke and homeless...
 
You’re throwing in the towel awfully early. Difficulty sleeping while traveling is very common.

What have you tried to promote sleep? Lots of things can help besides medication.

Strenuous exercise, chamomile tea, passion flower drops, melatonin, soothing music, ocean sounds, a warm bath, meditation, reading the FAR.....
 
I nice warm shower before bed not only cleanses the body but seems to cleanse the mind as well.
 
Look into following a Ketogenic diet. Some people follow it just for the sleep benefits.

For me personally - no Ambien, Lunesta or benedryl makes me sleep anywhere near as well as being in ketosis.

It's a huge pain the first two weeks but the energy, clarity and sleep you get once you're in it more than makes up for it.
 
I used to have trouble sleeping away from home while working. Trying to force myself to sleep early did not help.

I finally tried keeping regular sleeping hours. I know, hard to do as a pilot. But going to bed at the same time every night, or as near as I could get to going to bed at a certain time seemed to help me.

Just got to get that Circadian Rhythm thing going.
 
Definitely don’t do the healthy thing and try and get help from a doctor. Then you would have to report it on your next medical application and the FaA would hold that against you for trying to do the right thing. Are you only having sleeping problems when you need to go to sleep/wake up at odd hours? If that’s the case then it’s not insomnia and it’s just your body not being able to shut itself off much earlier then your usual bed time. Take some melatonin an hour before you want to go to sleep and see if that helps.
 
Last edited:
Whoa, that was quick. Thank you all for the tips. I’ve been trying most of them.

I’ve changed my diet completely, work out every other day, avoid all screens an hour before sleep, melatonin 10mg, vitamin supplements, and the occasional otc Benadryl on my days off. I find that I can get 5-8 hours by sleeping at 2am and waking around noon. Trying to sleep earlier has me sleeping 4-5 hours and then bolting awake.

None of this is working unfortunately. This started a few months ago and it got progressively worse to the point where I had to call in from one trip because I wasn’t falling asleep on my overnights.

I guess I should ask, is it normal in this profession where we will have nights where we cannot sleep... period? Especially when we have to operate the next day? Before this I used to sleep like a baby, anywhere, anytime. It was just such a sudden turn of events and it’s frightening.
 
Commute the day prior or relocate to base.
 
This is very common in life, not just for pilots. Don’t get discouraged.

You might also try several hours of violent sex in the evening. Even if you still can’t sleep, you probably won’t care much. And at least it will give you something to do besides just lying there worrying about not sleeping.

:devil:
 
Reading the FARs.
Reading any chemistry text book (my roommate used to find me asleep at my desk with my head on my chem book)
One disadvantage of [mellow] music is that many people tend to start listening rather than letting it be background noise.
Have you tried a white-noise generator? You may be able to find an app for your phone.

As for the living conditions....check your internal airline email/whatever and see if you can find a roommate(s) and move out. Or the internal airport postings for possible roommates from other airlines or ground crew.
 
Can’t Sleep said:
Just need to rant/advice about a horrible situation.

27 year old FO working for a Regional Airline.

I sleep fine at home. Used to sleep fine on the job.

However, recently, for two straight trips, I haven’t been able to fall asleep.

The night before, try to fall asleep around 6pm to get up around 3am for my commute. Not a single hour of sleep.

Sleep is progressively getting worse and worse whenever there is a time. I’ve used up 3/4 of my sick calls this year and my sick bank is dried up.

I was trying to use this job to get out of enotionally/financially abusive household as well as about 30k in debt from being in said household, but it seems futile. Would I be able to qualify for supplemental disability? My company’s disability pays nowhere near enough to survive.

It’s hard enough to come to terms that more than likely I’ll never fly again. I’m just trying to avoid being broke and homeless...
Click to expand...

"Moderate sleep deprivation produces impairments in cognitive and motor performance equivalent to legally prescribed levels of alcohol intoxication" - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1739867/

Are you still flying with this condition? The outpouring of sympathy from this group is commendable. Yet, the guy who smoked pot once but never flew intoxicated was chased away as a villain. Go figure.
 
Have you tried drinking some Tart Cherry Juice? Has melatonin and other ingredients to help relax and is absorbed in the body better than melatonin supplements.
 
mryan75 said:
He wasn't chased away, he simply didn't like the answers he got.
Click to expand...

He was a law-breaking, lying cheat who shouldn't be allowed to fly. At least that was the general sentiment from responses. Yet, for this guy, everyone has recommendations from melatonin to cherry juice. I know, you are thinking that insomnia is not a self-induced impairment like smoking pot. Yes, there is something to that. Leaving aside the legality of it, the effect on pilot performance is pretty clear. Someone who didn't sleep last night will be more dangerous in the cockpit than someone who smoked pot once at a party in California last month.
 
The best approach IMHO is stay away from sleep meds, get regular exercise, don’t eat heavy meals for 2 hrs prior to bedtime and have regular sex, not necessarily with your wife, one good multivit per day and you will live forever. Humans are not designed for transcontinental and multiple time zone travel. When its time to sleep use a proven martial arts relaxation technique combined with a thorough step by step review of your favorite aircraft starting procedure/pre-taxi and pre takeoff checklist. You probably won’t make it much past fuel pump on/off. The martial arts relaxation technique involves sequential muscle group relaxation in an ordered fashion starting from head to toes. It’s worth a google. If that does not work for you. find something else to do for a living. I firmly believe you can train yourself to sleep.
 
100% correct. If you sign on the dotted lone agreeing to be tested DON'T DO DOPE. And if you ever test positive it is entirely your responsibility.
 
mryan75 said:
It wasn't about being legal, it was about being a moron. He wants to be a commercial pilot, he has a job that subjects him to random drug testing, and he goes and smokes weed. That's just dumb. Sorry for pointing that out.
Click to expand...


Fair point. He may not have flown while stoned, but he likely flew while stupid.
 
Can’t Sleep said:
Whoa, that was quick. Thank you all for the tips. I’ve been trying most of them.
Click to expand...
If it turns out to be an emotional/psychological item (was for once way back in college...), try talking to a trained counselor.

One way to do this and avoid getting stuck into some diagnosis code database that is FAA discoverable, is to seek out someone in a local church. My brother is a "special needs" pastor at a North Atlanta based church, working on the ministries whose mission are to help folks with programs similar to talk therapy, addiction recovery, and "I'm stuck in neutral and need guidance to get out of the rut". It is confidential and for once or twice, no charge. When I asked about successes, he said he and his team have helped lots of people get back on productive track.

It could be that just talking with someone who knows how to guide the conversation might uncover the "block" and then release the backed up pressure that's keeping you from sleeping well. My college experience was this. Once I talked through what was getting me all wound up, I quickly re-stablized and felt much better.

As an example of what I'm trying to say, the older fogies here will remember the TV Series M*A*S*H and the episode where Hawkeye continuously sneezed. After he talked everything through with Sydney, the internal pressure released and he got past it.



This is a total SWAG at what might help you. But if as you say, all of the other ideas mentioned so far have yet to work, going to talk with someone about what's going on with you is worth a try and only costs you some of your time.
 
lsaway said:
Have you tried drinking some Tart Cherry Juice? Has melatonin and other ingredients to help relax and is absorbed in the body better than melatonin supplements.
Click to expand...
did not know this..... filing away for future use.
 
I talked to my own doc about not sleeping the day before yesterday. She advised me to learn how to meditate. Common stress always looks worse in the middle of the night and your ability to deal with it the next day is reduced when over tired. I need to learn to turn off the middle of the night thinking. Easier said than done, but I’ve never learned meditation and it seems to work for billions of other people. Yoga is supposed to help, too.
 
Stewartb said:
I need to learn to turn off the middle of the night thinking.
Click to expand...

I count backwards from some random 4 digit number. Slowly, rhythmically and controlled breathing, that seems to push other things out of my mind.
 
Stan Cooper said:
In addition to HF's advice, NO television or computer time for an hour before you hit the sack.
Click to expand...

Training our body to know it is sleep time is very important. Not only NO TV or electronics 1 hour before, but also never watch TV or use your electronics while in bed, or engage in conversation while in bed. This rhythm trains the mind that getting in bed is the "Alarm Clock" to sleep, which wakens the pineal gland to start its production & release of melatonin. All other activities that are done in bed are mixed signals that confuse the brain about the purpose of a bed.
 
“Mixed signals”

well, so much for procreation practice
 
I turn on the podcast version of NPR's "This American Life" on really low volume.
At first, it gives me words to think about (instead of whatever my brain is worked up about), but then after about 10 minutes, it's Ira Glaaaaaaaassssss..... zzzzzz.
Just be sure to avoid episodes about politics/military/police. Those can have yelling/explosions/sirens in them, that can wake you back up.

Edit: More seriously... from your description of the "abusive" situation at home, it sounds like if you can solve the root of the problem, the secondary effects should improve.
 
Last edited:
Well, I just can't believe it. Nobody mentioned caffeine, I even searched the thread for the word. When I was your age I drank a lot of coffee, soft drinks and who knows what else that had caffeine in it. I often had the same problem falling asleep. You can start by cutting that out completely, not just cutting back. These days, I can't stay awake for more than five minutes in a hot bath. It's worth a try. When I go to bed I close my eyes and try to remember all the pleasant things I saw, heard or sometimes even smelled that day. A cute Cardinal singing his heart out in the morning, a brilliant blue sky while walking my dog, a cool mist on my face in the still night air and I give thanks for them. Then I try to think of people I know who have health problems and could use some help and I ask for it. I'm asleep before I can finish the list almost every night.
 
I have some ringing in my ears for years. Only when it’s super quiet does it get super loud. Silence at night when trying to sleep is not my friend. When it’s time for bed. Glasses come off- I can’t see tv with glasses off, and an episode of Seinfeld goes on. Combo of familiarity of the episode and noise to block the ringing- I’m out before the first set is done. Like clockwork. Unless it’s “the betrayal” I giggle the whole time. Routine is good.
+1 for caffeine mention. I can’t have a diet soda after 12pm and not be wired at night!!
Also any sugary snacks before bed- activates the brain.
 
yes on the caffeine....for me it's none after noon.

the other thing... a long time ago I read this idea related to left brain/right brain kinda stuff.
if you are lying awake thinking about something analytical (or words, facts, logic, etc.)...then engage your "art" side of your brain. think about colors or something artistic or spatial.
If you're stressing about something artistic, think about something analytical...counting sheep for example.

I've only had limited practice with this problem, but seems like it helps
 
dtuuri said:
Well, I just can't believe it. Nobody mentioned caffeine, I even searched the thread for the word. When I was your age I drank a lot of coffee, soft drinks and who knows what else that had caffeine in it. I often had the same problem falling asleep. You can start by cutting that out completely, not just cutting back. These days, I can't stay awake for more than five minutes in a hot bath. It's worth a try. When I go to bed I close my eyes and try to remember all the pleasant things I saw, heard or sometimes even smelled that day. A cute Cardinal singing his heart out in the morning, a brilliant blue sky while walking my dog, a cool mist on my face in the still night air and I give thanks for them. Then I try to think of people I know who have health problems and could use some help and I ask for it. I'm asleep before I can finish the list almost every night.
Click to expand...

Very true. When I was in my 20's I used to have a late night coffee and then go to sleep. Now, I can't drink coffee after 3pm. Tea seems to be ok even if it contains caffeine.
 
While your situation sounds more emotional/psychological, do take the posts about caffeine seriously. I've been a terrable sleeper most of my life, it got worse in my teen years and progressely got worse over the years. In hind sight, it corolated my intake of caffeine. Its a serious drug that can really mess with your chemistry of your brain. It's, plain and simple, and addictive drug. And its so easy to massively dose youself with caffeine nowdays, it in is many things you would not expect. And the amount of caffeine in everyday products has massively increased in the last 10 years. Getting 30-50 mg from a coke or coffee used to give people a buzz, now you get a single coffee drink or sports drink with 300 mg in it. Do that a few times a day on a regular schedule and your become massively chemicaly dependent on it and it messes with your brain. Do a serious calculation on how much caffeine your ingesting every day, make a plan to taper it down (don't do cold turkey) and get off it completly. I've havent had caffeine in over 5 years now, the best result was better, more restfull sleep within weeks of cutting caffeine out of my life. "But I need a cup of cofffee to get going in the morning!" you say. Yes, because your an addict.
 
My wife is watching some equestrian show at the moment. Have you considered watching a dressage competition? I’m finding it to be very effective at inducing sleep.....
 
One of my close friends (not a pilot) had severe sleep deprivation and tried the usual remedies mentioned here, but nothing worked. His PCP recommended the Stanford Sleep Medicine Center in Redwood City. He spent several overnight sessions hooked up to all kinds of sensors and was diagnosed with multiple issues affecting his sleep, including sleep apnea. After diagnosis and treatment, he now gets eight to ten hours of sound high quality sleep every night.

I'm sure there are specialized sleep clinics like Stanford at medical centers around the country, so I'm not suggesting Stanford specifically, but for difficult cases an individually tailored study at specialized facility may be worth the time and expense. Letting them know up front you're a professional pilot and there are drugs you are forbidden to take will help them come up with a plan that doesn't get you in trouble with the FAA.
 
Last edited:
dtuuri said:
Well, I just can't believe it. Nobody mentioned caffeine, I even searched the thread for the word. When I was your age I drank a lot of coffee, soft drinks and who knows what else that had caffeine in it. I often had the same problem falling asleep. You can start by cutting that out completely, not just cutting back. These days, I can't stay awake for more than five minutes in a hot bath. It's worth a try. When I go to bed I close my eyes and try to remember all the pleasant things I saw, heard or sometimes even smelled that day. A cute Cardinal singing his heart out in the morning, a brilliant blue sky while walking my dog, a cool mist on my face in the still night air and I give thanks for them. Then I try to think of people I know who have health problems and could use some help and I ask for it. I'm asleep before I can finish the list almost every night.
Click to expand...
Exactly what I was going to say. No caffeine, no alcohol, no stimulants of any kind. Get up early, be tired, go to sleep. Stress will also keep you awake, so chill. Meditate. Talk to someone.
 
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 365 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.
Back
Top