Setting Kohlsman to allow agl indication?

If you're in the same area, you're also using the same QFE, so... no difference?
If everyone is. Seems like it would be easy for someone to read the wrong altitude or get confused on what they dialed in and end up on a Smithsonian episode.
 
I used to do the same launching from a mountain. Might be 20 min or more before it turned into a positive number.

I was spoiled living in Albuquerque. We had to wait until 5 or 6 to fly the Sandias because the thermals were too violent earlier in the afternoon. Usually it took just seconds to find one and the ride up was on. On good days we would be more than 2,000' above launch.
 
FWIW dept: In the 60s and even 70s there were a lot of war surplus C-12 altimeters like this in trainers: Altimeter, Sensitive, Type C-12, 50,000 ft, US Army Air Force WWII – AeroAntique The little triangles you see above and below the zero rotated and were used in setting QFE ("zero setting system" then). Of course, we had no idea and they were a big mystery for a long time. One day I was introduced to an old gray beard CFI who used to work for American Airlines and asked him if he knew what they were. He did, but now I've forgotten what he said. So, I just spent more time than I should have researching this for my own amusement and in case anybody has one of these and is mystified by the triangles. Apparently, the pilot called the station agent to receive the station's pressure altitude and then set the triangles, via the setting knob, to the field's pressure altitude. Voila, QFE!
 
FWIW dept: In the 60s and even 70s there were a lot of war surplus C-12 altimeters like this in trainers: Altimeter, Sensitive, Type C-12, 50,000 ft, US Army Air Force WWII – AeroAntique The little triangles you see above and below the zero rotated and were used in setting QFE
I don't think that is correct.

My understanding is that the two small triangles show the offset to pressure altitude. They are both on "zero" now because the altimeter is set to 29.92". As you change the altimeter setting, those triangles will move to indicate the number of feet difference between your indicated altitude and pressure altitude.

QFE was calculated based on the landing field elevation and the field's altimeter setting. Each airport, since its field elevation doesn't change, would have a correction factor that would be applied to the current altimeter setting to give the setting for QFE. A table could be made with field elevation on one axis and altimeter setting on the other for quick lookup.
 
I think Russia was doing it not long ago, maybe still are? When used to the other way, seems a little bass-ackwards.

Russia definitely did it. So did most of the former SSR states. Almaty, Kazakhstan (very nice) used to be a regular stop for us between Asia and Europe. They did QFE meters below the Transition Altitude. Our FMSs and autopilots only work on QNH feet, so we had a chart that we would use to convert the QFE meter height given to us by ATC into QNH meters for the autopilot/FMS. It wasn't as bad as it sounds since there was usually just one altitude given to us below the TLvl. But, there are plenty of big mountains in that area, so in the weather, you'd always be double and triple checking your conversion... just in case.

I think the whole world should go to Standard above 180. No I don’t want to discuss the differences with 180 whether a low or high local altimeter setting.


Just use 180 everywhere, easy.
You can't just use FL180 everywhere. We don't even do that in the US.

I agree. As a 'murcan I find it odd that some countries have transition altitudes of 5000', 6000', etc... or sometimes transition alt (you mean transition level) is given by ATC (wTf?). So you end up with flight levels of FL80, FL100 .... bizzare.

18,000' everywhere! Murca!

For most of you all, it really doesn't matter. But there is a difference in Transition Altitude (TAlt) and Transition Level (TLvl). Transition Altitude is the highest altitude you can be assigned before going to QNE (29.92/1013). Climbing above the TAlt you'll set QNE. Transition Level is the lowest flight Level you'll be assigned on descent. Descending below the TLvl, you go from QNE to QNH (or QFE, but that's the exception).

Like mentioned above, in other countries the TAlts/TLvls are sometimes lower, and many times split. For example, in France, the TAlt is 5,000' QNH. So, on climbout passing 5,000' you'll set 1013 Hpa. The TLvl is "by ATC" and will come to you on the ATIS. Generally it's around FL060. So, on descent, once you pass FL060, you'll set the QNH.

Like I said above to @sourdough44, you can't always use the same TAlt/TLvl. It's a safety issue, and we don't even do that here in the States. The TAlt in the US is always 18,000, but the TLvl can be higher... much higher based on the local altimeter. The difference is that in the US, the controllers take care of that for us, and we don't have to worry about it.

So, if you're landing somewhere in a low pressure area, and the local altimeter is 28.90, the lowest flight level you can be given is FL195, essentially making the TLvl in the US FL195. The reason behind the split TAlt/TLvls in other countries and the US is because if you have a plane flying around at 17,500 with a really low QNH set and another airplane at FL180 with QNE set, they could be a conflict, so when the local altimeter is low, they have to raise the lowest FL to keep that traffic separated from traffic in the area using QNH. [See 14 CFR 91.121(b)]

To remember which one is which, in TAlt the "A" points up, so you use that one in the climb out, and in TLvl, the "v" points down, so you use that one on descent.
 
I have 2 altimeters now so I could do this with one and leave the other on MSL... but I won't. Seems like a good way to create confusion.

Totally agree on the "too much confusion" principle. Also, most of 'our' airplane altimeters only adjust from 28.1 to 31.0 inches, leaving a useable bandwidth, so to speak, of 2900 feet, so you can't set zero for higher elevation fields. (I think they make other altimeters with more range, but not common in our GA stuff.)
 
But there is a difference in Transition Altitude (TAlt) and Transition Level (TLvl). Transition Altitude is the highest altitude you can be assigned before going to QNE (29.92/1013). Climbing above the TAlt you'll set QNE. Transition Level is the lowest flight Level you'll be assigned on descent. Descending below the TLvl, you go from QNE to QNH (or QFE, but that's the exception).

Yep, I misspoke.

Example:

The MAX1F SID from Heathrow:
upload_2022-7-19_14-9-34.png
Trans alt: 6000 so that's where you would switch to standard.

The TANET1Z STAR to Heathrow:
upload_2022-7-19_14-12-40.png

Trans level: By ATC So they would assign the level at which you switch from standard.

Thanks for pointing that out. Procedures outside of the US are.... different. And there are so. many. SIDs. and. STARs. Jeez. Must be tough to pre-plan the arrival. Or do you get enough notice that it's not awful to punch in a new arrival?
 
Are you saying, in the picture, if you rotate the triangles to the ~300 ft. pressure altitude shown that the hands won't be at zero, i.e. the hands swap with the triangles?
I don't understand the question.

As you adjust the altimeter setting, the two triangles move to indicate the offset from pressure altitude. When 29.92" is set, they are both at the 12 o'clock position indicating zero offset.

I looked at page 69 of the pdf document, and page 69 as printed on the page, and both were talking about navigation, not altimetry.
 
Off with his head!!

:rofl: Nah I love learning about this stuff. I'll probably never have the opportunity to what guys like Sluggo and Kayoh and Larry and others on this forum do for a living. But it fascinates me. So any opportunity to learn how the pros do it is not an opportunity I'm gonna pass up. :D
 
Back
Top