Seneca down in KY.....

woodchucker

woodchucker

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woodchucker
Current info has 4 perished and a 7-year-old walking away.
 
Reports are the flight was from Key West to Mt Vernon, IL. Foreflight tells me that is 902nm and there are significant headwinds (at 6am) at all altitudes. That's outside the range of a Seneca, but it should just about have been able to make it to KY.

Someone please tell me this isn't another "a pilot running a perfectly good airplane out of fuel" crash.
 
Not good is right, especially if ran out of fuel. Rain and cloudy in the area at the time, according to reports.
 
The little girl who survived, was dressed in her Florida clothes and walked 3/4 mile through tough terrain bare footed, to knock on a strangers door. Tough little kid. My heart goes out to her.
 
MBDiagMan said:
The little girl who survived, was dressed in her Florida clothes and walked 3/4 mile through tough terrain bare footed, to knock on a strangers door. Tough little kid. My heart goes out to her.
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That is one tough resourceful little girl.
 
I saw a report of a stop in Tallahassee. I haven't looked at FA to confirm.
 
That changes fuel equation in a big way...those FA radar returns do not look so promising but they are hit it miss.
 
WSMV out of Nashville is doing a hack job on the story right now. Comparing the Seneca to the King Air or Queen Air... Good Gawd.
 
Terrible... Fuel shouldn't have been an issue, but icing could have been. Very sad for sure... Even with an engine out in cruise, shouldn't the seneca be able to make a safe landing?
 
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Oh yeah.. if you google N81291 on flight aware, it shows its last position was in a line of weather. So icing could be a factor, however, the pilot stated he was having engine trouble, so not sure how icing would play a role in that.
 
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Ryanb said:
Oh yeah.. if you google N81291 on flight aware, it shows its last position was in a line of weather. So icing could be a factor, however, the pilot stated he was having engine trouble, so not sure how icing would play a role in that.
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We'll wait for the NTSB report, but with respect to the above comment, don't forget that induction icing can occur before the wings ice. Even on a turbocharged aircraft.
 
wsuffa said:
don't forget that induction icing can occur before the wings ice. Even on a turbocharged aircraft.
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Oh thats true, I didn't realize that would cause a failure, being that the engine is so warm.
 
Ryanb said:
Oh thats true, I didn't realize that would cause a failure, being that the engine is so warm.
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I've got a turbocharged engine & can state first hand that induction icing is quite possible. I don't recall the particulars of the Seneca, but I do know that my plane iced up on the air filter.
 
And although alternate air is available, it might not have crossed the pilot's mind, easier to assume you have engine troubles.:dunno: I don't remember ever using the alt air switch/lever during a flight, so it might not be top of mind. Just a thought.

wsuffa said:
I've got a turbocharged engine & can state first hand that induction icing is quite possible. I don't recall the particulars of the Seneca, but I do know that my plane iced up on the air filter.
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Poor kid. There were reports today that she's "emotionally traumatized", and if that made it all the way to the press, she's not a happy camper at all.
 
was the seneca in cruise when they lost the engune? I am currently flying a turbocharged seneca ii and engine failure in cruise is a none issue. the plane holds altitude and airspeed pretty good. maybe there was icing of some sort involved in the accident chain. my heart goes out to the survivor.
 
denverpilot said:
Poor kid. There were reports today that she's "emotionally traumatized", and if that made it all the way to the press, she's not a happy camper at all.
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Yea I feel for that Kid. Ugh I hope and pray she has a deep support network.
 
N747JB said:
And although alternate air is available, it might not have crossed the pilot's mind, easier to assume you have engine troubles.:dunno: I don't remember ever using the alt air switch/lever during a flight, so it might not be top of mind. Just a thought.
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That's why training is important. And practice moreso.

Having had to use it myself, it's one of the first things I do (along with enriching mixture).
 
If one engine died due to induction icing and alt air was not used, I could see the plane drifting down OEI with contaminated wings.

I read that her sister 9, who was killed was named "Piper". Sad....
 
He should have had the power to outclimb the ice (I would think) if he took that action quickly after he noticed it building.
 
dans2992 said:
He should have had the power to outclimb the ice (I would think) if he took that action quickly after he noticed it building.
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Wouldn't it be quite the opposite?

You would want to descend because of the warmer temps closer to the ground?

I'm not too sure, never flown in bad weather before. I'm sure someone will chime in!
 
FloridaPilot said:
Wouldn't it be quite the opposite?

You would want to descend because of the warmer temps closer to the ground?

I'm not too sure, never flown in bad weather before. I'm sure someone will chime in!
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I only fly VFR. If the ceiling is under 1000' I find an airport. Icing is rare without being in the clouds. I've picked up ice before and chose both up and down depending on the situation. Staying at the same altitude and heading is not a good idea, the least you should do is a 180 turn, but do something. :dunno:

The above might not be everyone's advice, but it is what has worked for me.
 
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FloridaPilot said:
Wouldn't it be quite the opposite?

You would want to descend because of the warmer temps closer to the ground?

I'm not too sure, never flown in bad weather before. I'm sure someone will chime in!
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Temperature inversions are often present in conditions of widespread area icing, which provides ice-free conditions at higher altitudes versus worse conditions at lower cruise altitudes.

In general though, spam cans are rather limited in their ability to climb once the pilot begins to recognize icing accumulation that bothers him enough to elect to climb in the first place.

I have a low threshold of tolerance for ice accumulation and will often cancel on a forecast if my already limited cruise altitude options are calling for any intensity of icing. As a southern flatland pilot I understand I have the luxury of such conservative decision-making since these scenarios are rare enough down here that it doesn't affect 95% of my scheduled flying days year round. For northern pilots though, this would obviously be a show stopper, which is why I live in the south in the first place, but I digress. The AOPA case study on the TBM 700 in NJ (available on youtube) galvanized my resolution to treat my piston flying as the critically power-limited endeavor that it is, and to shy away from pretending I can power myself out of even the most benign of weather related hazards.

As to the induction icing theory, I find it curious that one engine would experience a catastrophic occurrence of it and the other one doesn't so much as hiccup. :dunno:
 
The alternate air intake in the RV 10 airboxes are "automatic". It is a magnetic hinge arrangement that opens if the air filter plugs. I sure hope this accident is not caused by a plugged air filter.
 
AdamZ said:
Yea I feel for that Kid. Ugh I hope and pray she has a deep support network.
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Agreed....

The poor kid probably had to crawl past some pretty gruesome sights of her family to get out of the wreckage...:sad::sad::sad::sad::sad:...
 
You can't stop me!

This has been linked to above, but I think Sailor's shirt explains why she made it out alive...
 
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Bobanna said:
Exactly. A pilot's first priority in icing conditions is to get out of it. A climb may work, or maybe a descent. Absent a favorable result, a 180 is an important option that is too often discounted. Plowing ahead is definitely an options-reduction choice.
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I was in freezing rain once. I didn't notice any ice buildup except on the windshield. I was 15 minutes from my destination. I monitored my control surfaces and kept moving towards my destination with the intent to put it down at the closest airport or field if i noticed any substantial buildup.

On the ground I used my fingers to brush off what was a very thin layer of clear ice over my whole plane.
 
If you cant make it home due to weather, and you have to be home, land and rent a car until weather & time are on your side to go get your bird. $50 - $200 bucks for a rental car is cheap compared to probate and burial expenses. :dunno:
 
SmashTime said:
I was in freezing rain once. I didn't notice any ice buildup except on the windshield. I was 15 minutes from my destination. I monitored my control surfaces and kept moving towards my destination with the intent to put it down at the closest airport or field if i noticed any substantial buildup.

On the ground I used my fingers to brush off what was a very thin layer of clear ice over my whole plane.
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IOW, better lucky than good...;)
 
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