Sellers, why?

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Sundancer

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Sundog
Why post an ad for an airplane and not include pictures?
Why post multiple exterior pic, but not a single interior or panel pic?
Why omit ALL avionics details? Blowing up blurry panel pics is not a suitable substitute.
Why ask $10K below market when the engine is run-out and requires a $35K investment?
Why call it "IFR" without an IFR GPS - yeah, I know, but it's 2022. . .
Why list an AP, then mention you don't know if it works or not?
Why brag "low time" on a 40 year old airplane - a couple hundred hours TTAFE is NOT a good thing!
Why call an engine mid-time that was last overhauled 25 years ago?
Why expect market after a top on an engine that's way past TBO?

In fairness, a couple sellers have been informative and forthcoming, and I know that scammers, nut cases, brokers, and tire kickers try their patience. But day-yum! Please, throw in a few pics, tell us what the black boxes are, and have some idea what the market value is when you post your asking price!

But some sellers are REAL touchy when you reach out for the omitted details - I'm not asking to date your wife, just want to know what's in the panel and the condition under the cowl. . .

Rant complete.
 
Pretty much that. And no one wants to write bad stuff.

Just saw a 172 listed in Canada saying they put it on owner’s maintenance recently, and it hasn’t flow but they ran up the engine regularly. Which I guess the person though it’s all good thing but man they are saying exactly the opposite of good key words.
 
Some of the nicest aircraft I've seen or owned have come from some of the worst ads. Most buyers just don't seem to want to take the time to sort out the good from the bad and expect the seller to do the work for them.
 
And "Garmin" - Sellers, Garmin makes a lot of stuff - tell us if it's a GPS, radio, transponder, whatever. Throw in the model number, and whether its WAAS or not. And I'm now a near-expert on true panel mounts versus the "portables" that are "velcroed" to a panel.
 
mondtster said:
Some of the nicest aircraft I've seen or owned have come from some of the worst ads. Most buyers just don't seem to want to take the time to sort out the good from the bad and expect the seller to do the work for them.
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I see a lot of good ads, and don't mind doing my due - but I expect the seller to describe the airplane in some reasonable detail - how do you sort 'em out otherwise? I've seen "Belchfire 200, pristine, low time, IFR." WTF do I do with that? Call the guy, I guess - who, on occasion, is annoyed I'm asking.
 
Some questions shall always remain unanswered :)
 
A couple of thoughts:
1) A guy who knows that the details you're asking for are bad news, so why go there? Yeah, stay away.
2) A guy who has checked out of the game, just wants the plane gone, doesn't care anymore, just somebody buy the plane already! Can be a great deal.
3) Lazy greedy guy, wants premium price for no work on his part. If he's lazy, you may be able to negotiate it some as he'd want least work.
 
I’ve sold four airplanes. If airplane pictures are free, airplane pictures get included. If it’s an upsell I just post the ad with the specs and anyone that is serious enough about the airplane to ask for pictures will get them via email dropbox or whatever. Call me cheap but I’m accepting the possibility of taking a loss on the plane already.
Don’t make it adversarial and you won’t feel like it’s adversarial.
Here’s another hint - you’re never going to get more than you asked for - you’ll probably get less so some people know they need to start out asking more than they’re willing to accept. Any ad is just a starting point in the negotiations.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Where’s my personal favorite: “Call for price” so I can use my Jedi like skills to get you to buy this airplane.
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"Call for price" is just a more subtle way of saying 'Serious inquires only'.

It's been discussed ad nauseum here, with many people insisting that they refuse to engage with such sellers.

The reality is they were never serious about wanting that particular airplane in the first place.

Whether you like the phrase or not, if you really want the airplane, you're gonna call....
 
Sundancer said:
I see a lot of good ads, and don't mind doing my due - but I expect the seller to describe the airplane in some reasonable detail - how do you sort 'em out otherwise? I've seen "Belchfire 200, pristine, low time, IFR." WTF do I do with that? Call the guy, I guess - who, on occasion, is annoyed I'm asking.
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Sometimes it can be hard to sort things out but talking to the owner on the phone usually helps decide if an aircraft is worth going to look at or not. In my experience, the bad ads are often placed by folks who are old and were accustomed to placing ads in the local newspaper where no photos were allowed and they paid by the word. Those guys may be a long term owner who has lovingly cared for their aircraft for decades. About 5 years ago I had one guy actually mail me physical photos of an airplane he was selling because he didn't have any way to send anything electronically or know how to.
 
Some of my best deals have been from useless ads like that. I often get the "you're the only one who bothered calling" remark after the deal completes.

Let them shoot themselves in the foot with their shoddy marketing and bid what you would pay for a no-details no-pics plane. Make the number appropriate so you can only be surprised to the upside. For most of these rotten ads, the number will be quite low. You might get a 'yes'.

$0.02. Pics, logs, specs upon request. :D
 
Owner's conduct is far more important than the quality of the ad. I saw ads that were pretty decent but when I called, the owner was a total douce and I wouldn't have taken their plane if they gave it to me for free. On the flip side, I saw ads that were pretty basic, called and the owner was super nice, helpful and I ended up buying the plane. I've bought five planes so far and would go have a drink with any one of the five sellers I bought a plane from. Same goes the other way around - I sold four of the five planes I bought and still am in touch with everyone I sold a plane to.
 
Fearless Tower said:
"Call for price" is just a more subtle way of saying 'Serious inquires only'.

It's been discussed ad nauseum here, with many people insisting that they refuse to engage with such sellers.

The reality is they were never serious about wanting that particular airplane in the first place.

Whether you like the phrase or not, if you really want the airplane, you're gonna call....
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Nope, when I was looking I ignored those ads.
 
So when I sold my plane I disclosed everything I could in the ad, took pictures of every angle I knew of, and priced it maybe 5-10% over the expected sale price for negotiating room.

Had 3 solid and fair offers within about a day. Played no games had the whole process completed in maybe a week.

The good ones don’t stay listed for long, the experienced buyers recognize them and jump.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Exactly. You weren’t serious about those airplanes.

You’ve also likely never looked at jets.
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True. When I see that, I think what they mean is “if price matters, don’t bother with this one”
 
Fearless Tower said:
Whether you like the phrase or not, if you really want the airplane, you're gonna call....
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This is fair if it's a unique or particularly interesting example of a plane.

Otherwise if it's your typical 182 / Bonanza / Lance with a 530 and a hodgepodge panel then you're just turning off potential buyers. Why call the guy who won't disclose his price when there's a near identical plane listed right next to it with the price on there

If there are 3 similar 182 for sale, one at $150,000 one at $180,000 and one that says "call for price" I can guarantee which one's going to get the most attention and which the least
 
A twin Bonanza, Beech 18, beautiful V-tail, etc., sure "call for price" .. otherwise get over yourself and list the price. Clearly you know and have a number of what you want to sell it for, put that or put that + 10%..
 
guest user said:
A couple of thoughts:
1) A guy who knows that the details you're asking for are bad news, so why go there? Yeah, stay away.
2) A guy who has checked out of the game, just wants the plane gone, doesn't care anymore, just somebody buy the plane already! Can be a great deal.
3) Lazy greedy guy, wants premium price for no work on his part. If he's lazy, you may be able to negotiate it some as he'd want least work.
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A variation of number 2 happened to me when I sold my first plane in 1989. The thought of selling was so painful I basically said free to good home and was saved when my brother listed and sold it for me.
 
I'm just trying to imagine what a smashing success Zillow/Boat-Trader/Carvana/etc would have been if they used flowery descriptions instead of pictures, and traded transparent list prices in favor of "call our sellers for more!" :rolleyes:
A slam dunk business model, no doubt.

So if you're a personal seller and you don't include an asking price in your listing -- congratulations, you're the tire-kicker of sellers.

Either you haven't assigned a value in your head that you're willing to part with it for (maybe you aren't even sure you want to sell it at all), or you haven't done the research to discover the market value.
In any case your unpreparedness or laziness make the process more inefficient and annoying for everyone.

... And that is why I look forward to the day when Trade-A-Plane/boatTrader/etc won't even let you post without including a price :D
 
texasclouds said:
You are just a tire kicker, and I know what I got.
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It the opposite, what I call a reverse tire kicker: "just testing the waters".

Recently a saw an ad posted by someone here on a different forum. Nice pics but didn't post TT, engine or prop hours. Sort of important information
 
I've never understood why people will post pictures of the interior, but not take 2 minutes to clean it up a little. I'm talking about leaving water bottles laying around, old faded sectionals, headsets hanging on the yoke and other power cords draped all over, etc, just making a really cluttered look.
 
My airplane ads have as many exterior and interior photos as I was allowed to put up. And jokes, too. Took a fun page from Bryan's toolkit.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Where’s my personal favorite: “Call for price” so I can use my Jedi like skills to get you to buy this airplane.
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Might be a bad move on my part, but I just blow past those - often those ads have the fewest details, too. Same for the ads without pictures.

Different attitudes, for various personalities. . .for a buyer looking for his first (and probably only) plane purchase good info is key. And if it isn't there? Another posting will come along soon - again, most of the sellers I've talk to are approachable and forthcoming. I've called on a few ads that were "sparse" because the price and airplane met my mission, and had good conversations. But I'm looking turn-key - good airplanes, but avionics were well past it, engine crowding TBO, etc. If that was in the AD someone looking for a good airframe to upgrade would be the audience - but not me. Po
sting the details would have saved us both some time and energy.
 
"Call for Price" - I'm trying to figure out what advantage a seller thinks he/she will have with that tactic. The only thing I can think of is that they hope the buyer can be sold on how great the plane is before the seller gives the price, hoping the plane is seen as worth the higher price. Or they only get potential buyers who by calling for a price are convincing themselves that this must be a better than average plane, otherwise why would they invest the effort to call.


To the OP's original question, it is probably the same people who make these bad airplane ads also sell their houses to Mark Spain. Don't know how to or don't want to clean up and market their plane/house. End up selling at a discount.
 
cowman said:
So when I sold my plane I disclosed everything I could in the ad, took pictures of every angle I knew of, and priced it maybe 5-10% over the expected sale price for negotiating room.
Had 3 solid and fair offers within about a day. Played no games had the whole process completed in maybe a week.
The good ones don’t stay listed for long, the experienced buyers recognize them and jump.
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I did the same. Placed ad at midnight, first call was 6 am my time, had 10 other serious buyers that sent contracts before noon (mine was a sweet Tiger) ... that first caller bought it and the others were disappointed. I had tons of photos and all the logs in PDF ...
 
LOL! Makes no sense to me. I have never really tried to sell an aircraft, but when that day comes I intend to post numerous pictures, logbook entries, anything I can think of. I also would welcome phone calls. Maybe you get a lot of non-serious tire kickers, but maybe some of those tire kickers have friends that are serious and will pass the info on...
 
I think another reason can be old guys who haven’t flown much in a long time, don’t really use the internet and honestly believe that dual 155s and an ADF are an excellent IFR panel.
 
What frustrates me though is when I try to sell something and spend a lot of time crafting a highly descriptive ad with lots of clear pictures, then immediately get a bunch of emails asking questions answered in the ad. It never fails.
 
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Jim K said:
What frustrates me though is when I try to sell something and spend a lot of time crafting a highly descriptive as with lots of clear pictures, then immediately get a bunch of emails asking questions answered in the ad. It never fails.
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Use a meme generator to overlay the description over the pictures. Those young guys <30 have too short an attention span to read the text box. Those old guys >40 have eyes that are going bad but won't admit it. Just be sure to be brief with the descriptions.
 
WDD said:
"Call for Price" - I'm trying to figure out what advantage a seller thinks he/she will have with that tactic.
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I ususaly start the call with; "so we don't waste each other's time what are you asking for the ________________?" Follow up question is "why are you selling it?" The conversation can go one of two ways from there.

Jim K said:
What frustrates me though is when I try to sell something and spend a lot of time crafting a highly descriptive as with lots of clear pictures, then immediately get a bunch of emails asking questions answered in the ad. It never fails.
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I had a situation like this and told the caller to go read the ad and call me back with some real questions.. Life is good when you're in a sellers markert. :)
 
Got the Comanche for 25% under market because too many of you were too scared/lazy to call. And for that, I thank you.

Technically the ad said make offer, not call, but the sentiment remains.
 
RussR said:
I've never understood why people will post pictures of the interior, but not take 2 minutes to clean it up a little. I'm talking about leaving water bottles laying around, old faded sectionals, headsets hanging on the yoke and other power cords draped all over, etc, just making a really cluttered look.
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Some people just genuinely don't know any better. You will see this as well in some RE listing photos.. most agents know to at least close the toilet seat lid but you'd be surprised the things that are left in photos
 
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