Self doubt or bad pilot?

bmacadoozle

bmacadoozle

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bmacadoozle
I am at the very end stage of my private, we’re starting to look at examiner availability but I am becoming far more doubtful that I am capable of passing a checkride currently. Multiple instructors have told me I fly good but my maneuvers still feel sloppy, much worse that a few months ago. But I cannot have a good ground lesson. Went through every section of preflight prep with my instructor and did pretty well, did a mock oral with a different instructor and it was a disaster. I was nervous and blanked on way too much of the questions being asked, weather specifically. Or the mock checkride instructor asked me stuff far more in depth then i’ve ever talked about with my cfi. I really don’t think i’m even gonna get signed off at this point and i’m disappointed in myself but at the same time I don’t know if I want to continue on.

Sorry for the long self pity post. I just need to get the thoughts out there and see if it makes any sense.
 
I would have to say your CFI is doing a poor job. If on a mock oral you have items that you have never discussed is a problem. Also you have to look at how much of the lack of knowledge falls on you? I have had students I can tell they never study, and if they aren't putting time in the books at home I don't sign them off.
 
TommyG said:
I would have to say your CFI is doing a poor job. If on a mock oral you have items that you have never discussed is a problem. Also you have to look at how much of the lack of knowledge falls on you? I have had students I can tell they never study, and if they aren't putting time in the books at home I don't sign them off.
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Yes I agree, I go home and study (probably two hours today on weather alone) then I go to the next lesson and forget a lot that I studied. I think it is a comprehension problem honestly. But yes it still does fall on me
 
How long have you been at it, how many hours? I think everyone gets some pre-game jitters. Your maneuvers don’t have to be perfect, just within the parameters. I assume you already took the written. How did you do? That should give you an idea of your deficiencies in your knowledge and what the DPE will likely ask you more about. I went through the ACS cover to cover and took notes on all the areas I couldn’t discuss competently prior to my check ride. It sounds like you just might need a little more time. Everyone is different. Some knock it out in 40-50 hours. Some may take 80 or more. I think I read the average is 67.
 
Motor6 said:
How long have you been at it, how many hours? I think everyone gets some pre-game jitters. Your maneuvers don’t have to be perfect, just within the parameters. I assume you already took the written. How did you do? That should give you an idea of your deficiencies in your knowledge and what the DPE will likely ask you more about. I went through the ACS cover to cover and took notes on all the areas I couldn’t discuss competently prior to my check ride. It sounds like you just might need a little more time. Everyone is different. Some knock it out in 40-50 hours. Some may take 80 or more. I think I read the average is 67.
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I have like 55 hours now. I got a 83 on my written and most of my questions I got wrong were about vor’s which is weird because they’re not that difficult. maybe it was trick answers idk
 
It will be easier the second time.

§ 61.49

Retesting after failure.

(a) An applicant for a knowledge or practical test who fails that test may reapply for the test only after the applicant has received:

(1) The necessary training from an authorized instructor who has determined that the applicant is proficient to pass the test; and

(2) An endorsement from an authorized instructor who gave the applicant the additional training.
 
Purchase the Mock PPL Oral product from King Schools and watch that at least 5 times all the way through. It is a literal recording of a mock checkride from start to finish, and my real checkride was probably 99% similar. I had zero surprises during the checkride, it was definitely worth it.
 
#1 - don't give up unless the flying part is what actually doesn't excite you any more. If you're just bumming because you don't feel prepared, aren't prepared, or your instructor needs to help you more... then just quit the pity party and get through it.

#2 - if you don't feel you are ready for the oral portion, keep studying and do plenty of practice testing. I used the Gleim materials as well as ordered the book "Private Pilot Oral Exam Guide", 12th Edition, by Michael D. Hayes. Those helped quite a bit. I also took my Oral/Check Ride within about 3 weeks of taking the written. Not sure how long ago the written was for you, but if it was a while, spend some time going back through things there too.

#3 - 55hrs isn't really a ton of hours. I got delayed with Covid, but I was flying every week beyond that and I didn't take my my checkride till I had almost 130hrs. I passed with flying colors but at that point I was beyond prepared (still had my doubts of course but that's normal). My point it, there's no magic number... 55hrs may be a little low for some and if that's your predicament... keep training and practicing. There's no rush to get the Checkride... You need to feel good about your own capability. The day after my checkride I had my wife in the plane with me and the following week my kids were up with me. I am very safety conscience and felt 100% confident there was no issue in doing so. Do you feel that way today? If not, like I said... maybe 55hrs is on the low side. Keep going. There's no magic number. I was at 130hrs when I got to my checkride and I have no problem telling the World I was WAAAAYYY beyond the 40hr minimum.
 
1000RR said:
#1 - don't give up unless the flying part is what actually doesn't excite you any more. If you're just bumming because you don't feel prepared, aren't prepared, or your instructor needs to help you more... then just quit the pity party and get through it.

#2 - if you don't feel you are ready for the oral portion, keep studying and do plenty of practice testing. I used the Gleim materials as well as ordered the book "Private Pilot Oral Exam Guide", 12th Edition, by Michael D. Hayes. Those helped quite a bit. I also took my Oral/Check Ride within about 3 weeks of taking the written. Not sure how long ago the written was for you, but if it was a while, spend some time going back through things there too.

#3 - 55hrs isn't really a ton of hours. I got delayed with Covid, but I was flying every week beyond that and I didn't take my my checkride till I had almost 130hrs. I passed with flying colors but at that point I was beyond prepared (still had my doubts of course but that's normal). My point it, there's no magic number... 55hrs may be a little low for some and if that's your predicament... keep training and practicing. There's no rush to get the Checkride... You need to feel good about your own capability. The day after my checkride I had my wife in the plane with me and the following week my kids were up with me. I am very safety conscience and felt 100% confident there was no issue in doing so. Do you feel that way today? If not, like I said... maybe 55hrs is on the low side. Keep going. There's no magic number. I was at 130hrs when I got to my checkride and I have no problem telling the World I was WAAAAYYY beyond the 40hr minimum.
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My experience was exactly like above. Only it took me about 100 hrs until my checkride which I passed first try. I was not a great pilot but the DPE said I flew safe.

I would NOT blame your CFI, this is all you, unless you paying the CFI for all your ground school, then is still all you. I could not to afford to pay a CFI for my ground school. I used Gleim for that.

The last 2 months of my training was work first, then all aviation 24/7. And I took off some work to finish training. I was a bull, I was going to get it done.

Study hard like you have been and you should be fine.

VOR navigation was the most confusing to me, now I hardly use it since they turned off so many VORs around me.
 
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bmacadoozle said:
I am at the very end stage of my private, we’re starting to look at examiner availability but I am becoming far more doubtful that I am capable of passing a checkride currently. Multiple instructors have told me I fly good but my maneuvers still feel sloppy, much worse that a few months ago. But I cannot have a good ground lesson. Went through every section of preflight prep with my instructor and did pretty well, did a mock oral with a different instructor and it was a disaster. I was nervous and blanked on way too much of the questions being asked, weather specifically. Or the mock checkride instructor asked me stuff far more in depth then i’ve ever talked about with my cfi. I really don’t think i’m even gonna get signed off at this point and i’m disappointed in myself but at the same time I don’t know if I want to continue on.

Sorry for the long self pity post. I just need to get the thoughts out there and see if it makes any sense.
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I could make this same post right now so I'm guessing this is normal. I'm done with everything and scored an 87 on my written. Not as good as I would have liked but I think it's ok. I've studied criss cross and sideways and still feel like I'm gunna fail somehow. My biggest fear is busting the 100foot challenge. I get to doing something and my right foot rest on the pedal and within seconds I'm turning and dropping without realizing. Somehow I put the wrong frequency in a couple days ago, mistook a 5 for a 2 and landed without telling anyone at a fairly busy uncontrolled airport. I thought my radio broke or the other plane that landed after me was at fault. Turns out I was....

So after all this I watched a video today that talks about all the errors pilots make at least once and all of that was on there.

So I guess what I am getting at is, I think we've both worked ourselves up a little too much over it and we need to relax a little. Everyone gets to this point and it's a good thing to care about being a good pilot. Rehearse it with someone if you can until you feel comfortable explaining it to anyone. I try to get my wife to ask me all kinds of questions. If I explain it to her then I can explain it to anyone lol.
 
Don't forget oral is "open book" - it's impossible to know everything. But you at least need to know where to look, and figuring that out will help you learn the content as well. Both my orals (PP and IR) seemed pretty easy, but I did well explaining my reasoning for the XC plan for both, why I picked the route, altitude, how I calculated fuel needed, weight and balance, weather etc.. I basically covered a significant chunk of what needed to be covered with DPE asking very few questions. The rest was pretty easy, got hung up on oxygen requirements.. did not have them memorized, went to FAR/AIM to get the exact stuff ( I knew >12k feet was where it started, but there's a bit more there).
Point being, use the ACS and the XC as a way to show you know the basics. Check weather every time you fly if that's a struggle. Have your CFI pop quiz you on stuff. You need to do the work, but it's very doable. Hang in there, most people feel like they'll never pass.
 
If comprehension is an issue try a different method. Gleim books did wonders to help me.
 
bmacadoozle said:
I am at the very end stage of my private, we’re starting to look at examiner availability but I am becoming far more doubtful that I am capable of passing a checkride currently. Multiple instructors have told me I fly good but my maneuvers still feel sloppy, much worse that a few months ago. But I cannot have a good ground lesson. Went through every section of preflight prep with my instructor and did pretty well, did a mock oral with a different instructor and it was a disaster. I was nervous and blanked on way too much of the questions being asked, weather specifically. Or the mock checkride instructor asked me stuff far more in depth then i’ve ever talked about with my cfi. I really don’t think i’m even gonna get signed off at this point and i’m disappointed in myself but at the same time I don’t know if I want to continue on.

Sorry for the long self pity post. I just need to get the thoughts out there and see if it makes any sense.
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Just so you know, the average private pilot goes to the practical test with about 65 hours, a written test score of about 83-87%, and about 16 hours of self study for the oral.

you need more practice and study.
 
For the oral, you need to continue to study, for my instrument, it went about 9 months or something like that after a took the written before I was ready for my check ride. I kept studying after I passed the written, and taking the practice tests. You should do the same for your ppl.

I was at a focus group a few years ago, with about 25 other pilots, with varying experience, but all had more experience than me. One of the questions was how long after you got your ppl, did you become really comfortable getting in an airplane and going flying. The consensus was about 40 hours after passing the check ride. I was shocked, all these great pilots felt the same way I did. Just keep that in mind, apprehension and butterflies are normal for most pilots before a flight.

Finally, during my instrument training I hit a plateau. It went on for a while until my instructor kind of figured out what was going on. He told me perfection is great to strive for, but no one really gets there. He told me about a couple of his experiences where something he did wasn't perfect. He told me the most important thing to do is fix the issue then move on. This is important, for example, maybe you landed a little hard. Figure out what happened, then don't worry about it, move on. I stopped getting ticked at myself when things weren't perfect. We would debrief, go over any issues, then address them next lesson. Once I figured this out, my check ride came quickly.

The goal is not perfection, the goal is being safe, both in ability to fly the airplane and decision making. This is what the DPE will look for, not perfection, but safe, sane, proficient flying. Once you get the ppl it is not the end of the learning journey, but the beginning.

So lighten up, stop counting hours, you are no where near taking too long, you do you, give yourself a break. You are at the point where everything just starts clicking. It may take 5 hours, it may take 20 hours. Meanwhile, trust your instructor, if he says you fly well, you fly well. He'll correct you if he needs to, trust him.

Get out and fly, amp up the book work, but more importantly, keep taking practice tests. Review the material for the answers you get wrong.
 
So what’s the worst that will happen?

Maybe your instructors/school try to be difficult to prep you.

If they say you’re ready, just do it. (I just re-read...55 hours...what if it takes more? So what. Keep at it, you should improve.)
 
IMO, an 83 on a written is a poor score. There are just too many aids out there where if you put in the effort…. I would think mid 90’s is about right.
 
I think you're being a bit hard on yourself, and I think that's a think that is going to make you a good pilot. Agree w/ Kritchlow, 83 isn't great for a test, and I'm going to bet that you took that test when other people thought you were ok, but you had some doubts. So study more. It's not a bad thing to want to be comfortable with what you're doing before you take your checkride. The DFE will absolutely look at the sections you missed on the written and expect you to know them now. He/she is required to.

Do the air work until you're comfortable with it. I was rusty with turn about a point before mine, so I went up and did them for 1.5 hours. After 45 minutes I moved from one spot to the other, because I figured someone was going to report an airplane "stuck in the sky". To me it sounds like the issues you're struggling with are wrote memorization or practice. Both of those just take time. Spend the time. It's a different amount for every person.
 
Don’t make perfect the enemy of good. Relax, don’t try to cram it all in. 100%, the DPE can go into way more detail on any topic than you can. You aren’t expected to know all of it.
 
Kritchlow said:
IMO, an 83 on a written is a poor score. There are just too many aids out there where if you put in the effort…. I would think mid 90’s is about right.
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Maybe he studied to learn the material not feed an ego by memorizing 100% of the test questions. Just sayin'..
 
bmacadoozle said:
Went through every section of preflight prep with my instructor and did pretty well, did a mock oral with a different instructor and it was a disaster.
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Normal result. That's why you do them — so you get used to the different ways the same subjects can be assessed before the actual test. Do more of them and don't let your instructor tell you when you're ready. That's something only you will know. The ACS spells it out in black and white. If you know it like the back of your hand you can stay ahead of the examiner with no surprises.
 
bmacadoozle said:
Yes I agree, I go home and study (probably two hours today on weather alone) then I go to the next lesson and forget a lot that I studied. I think it is a comprehension problem honestly. But yes it still does fall on me
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How are you studying? What did that 2 hours consist of?
 
Kritchlow said:
IMO, an 83 on a written is a poor score. There are just too many aids out there where if you put in the effort…. I would think mid 90’s is about right.
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I do too. I am reporting what the average scores from one testing location that does a fair amount of tests. Mid 80 scores are the average across all the certificates and test failures are very rare. Like less than 1%.
 
bmacadoozle said:
Yes I agree, I go home and study (probably two hours today on weather alone) then I go to the next lesson and forget a lot that I studied.
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You need to tie it in with a flight you plan to make. Suppose you learned how to decipher METARS today. Go look at a bunch of airports you might fly to someday and read the METARs for them. And again tomorrow. And next week. That's how you get experience, you go after it. Don't sit and wait for it to come to you.
 
dtuuri said:
Maybe he studied to learn the material not feed an ego by memorizing 100% of the test questions. Just sayin'..
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Either way, I stand by my statement. 83% is a poor grade.
 
Fly with other CFI's if you can, everyone has a different teaching style and way of explaining things, sometimes that is what it takes for you to "figure out" how to do a maneuver correctly. I had this issue with with landings, my CFI just could not communicate what I was doing wrong or how to fix it. 2 flights with a different CFI explaining it differently and bingo, it clicked. I was no where near ready at 55 hours, don't beat yourself up over that.
 
Keep at it. I failed my written twice and got it on the third try. A couple months later I passed my checkride with ease.

My biggest issue with the written was being taught to memorize the damn questions. It was a waste and did me in. Once I worked on learning the reason for the answers I did a lot better (Thanks Larry!). I wasn't exactly good at studying when I was 16 so having a couple of really good pilot friends to help was awesome as well, but I sadly reached out after I had failed the written and should have much sooner. If you can get together with other students in your flight school or with other pilots you know it can be a big help.
 
bfmetcalf said:
Keep at it. I failed my written twice and got it on the third try. A couple months later I passed my checkride with ease.

My biggest issue with the written was being taught to memorize the damn questions. It was a waste and did me in. Once I worked on learning the reason for the answers I did a lot better (Thanks Larry!). I wasn't exactly good at studying when I was 16 so having a couple of really good pilot friends to help was awesome as well, but I sadly reached out after I had failed the written and should have much sooner. If you can get together with other students in your flight school or with other pilots you know it can be a big help.
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I bet your talking about Larry Grin? If so he was my instructor also at the end of my training. I flew with 3 instructors before him. Great guy and was very patient with me! I made a lot of money for the flight school since I was there a long time. I passed my written first try but with only a 78% and the checkride first try also.

Then many hours later I still remember things that Larry taught me. I passed a 1000 hrs a while back and often think I'd love to have Larry back in my plane to show him how much I have improved. I still talk to him on the radio once in a while.
 
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Gary Ward said:
I bet your talking about Larry Grin? If so he was my instructor also at the end of my training. I flew with 3 instructors before him. Great guy and was very patient with me! I made a lot of money for the flight school since I was there a long time. I passed my written first try but with only a 78% and the checkride first try also.

Then many hours later I still remember things that Larry taught me. I passed a 1000 hrs a while back and often think I'd love to have Larry back in my plane to show him how much I have improved. I still talk to him on the radio once in a while.
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Larry's must be good guys. It was actually a guy named Larry Schlasinger. He wasn't my CFI, just a pilot in the area that took me under his wing and showed me a thing or 2. He was probably one of the main reasons I stuck with it. Along with a Tim Knutson who did what he could with me as well. Those 2 really opened flying up for me, along with others that let me fly their planes for gas and good conversation. GA is really a cool thing when you get to know people. I really need to get a network like that here in Cincinnati.
 
Back in the dinosaur age when I was in school, I think an 83% would have been a "B," all in all, not too bad. If you feel inadequate, just look around here and you will see a lot of areas where even experienced pilots, and some CFI's, disagree on the correct answer to a question. And the VOR questions on the FAA test are pretty tricky. I understand why the FAA test writers would have trouble coming up with written questions about VOR's since when you are flying, using VOR's is pretty simple.

As far as whether to give up or not, my main question is are you (mostly) having fun? If so, hang in there until you are comfortable with flying. When you get to that point, you will pass the checkride. DPE's are not monsters. They don't want to fail you.

Most things worthwhile are not easy.
 
bmacadoozle said:
I got a 83 on my written and most of my questions I got wrong were about vor’s which is weird because they’re not that difficult. maybe it was trick answers idk
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The way they're presented in the exam and the study materials isn't very intuitive in the PPL or IFR but you can usually figure it out. It's a whole lot easier when you can spin the knob!
 
bmacadoozle said:
Multiple instructors have told me I fly good but my maneuvers still feel sloppy, much worse that a few months ago.
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...but are your actual maneuvers really sloppy? In my initial days I was very unsure about myself, especially with regard to landings. I was always afraid I was going to bend the plane. I never actually had a hard landing, but in my mind they all were. An hour before my first solo flight, I was able to ride with my CFI and one of his students who was going for an Instrument rating. The student was a nice man in his late 40s who had many hours before going for his Instrument rating. He wasn't a bad pilot by any means, but it also showed me that I was a lot better than I was giving myself credit for. My solo landings were smoother than the 300+ hour guy's. I wouldn't have ever known that if I hadn't gotten to see someone else land.

I was nervous and blanked on way too much of the questions being asked, weather specifically. Or the mock checkride instructor asked me stuff far more in depth then i’ve ever talked about with my cfi.
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First, remember that the point of the oral exam and checkride *IS NOT* to see if you can do things correctly. Instead it's to ensure that you can do things *safely*. Huge difference there. Obviously, you'll need to have certain things memorized, particularly emergency procedures. After that, as long as you know where to look that information up, you're good to go.

There isn't a single pilot out there who hasn't felt overwhelmed at some point (or many times) in their training. That's part of the journey.
 
@Palmpilot in post #33 has got it! Use the simulator written by luizmonteiro and you will learn about VORs quickly. Three Thumbs up! :thumbsup:
 
bmacadoozle said:
I am at the very end stage of my private, we’re starting to look at examiner availability but I am becoming far more doubtful that I am capable of passing a checkride currently. Multiple instructors have told me I fly good but my maneuvers still feel sloppy, much worse that a few months ago. But I cannot have a good ground lesson. Went through every section of preflight prep with my instructor and did pretty well, did a mock oral with a different instructor and it was a disaster. I was nervous and blanked on way too much of the questions being asked, weather specifically. Or the mock checkride instructor asked me stuff far more in depth then i’ve ever talked about with my cfi. I really don’t think i’m even gonna get signed off at this point and i’m disappointed in myself but at the same time I don’t know if I want to continue on.

Sorry for the long self pity post. I just need to get the thoughts out there and see if it makes any sense.
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I highly recommend you purchase ASA’s Private Pilot Oral Exam Guide. Very comprehensive and will prepare you for the oral.
Private Pilot Oral Exam Guide:...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1619544598?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
 
bmacadoozle said:
I am at the very end stage of my private, we’re starting to look at examiner availability but I am becoming far more doubtful that I am capable of passing a checkride currently. Multiple instructors have told me I fly good but my maneuvers still feel sloppy, much worse that a few months ago. But I cannot have a good ground lesson. Went through every section of preflight prep with my instructor and did pretty well, did a mock oral with a different instructor and it was a disaster. I was nervous and blanked on way too much of the questions being asked, weather specifically. Or the mock checkride instructor asked me stuff far more in depth then i’ve ever talked about with my cfi. I really don’t think i’m even gonna get signed off at this point and i’m disappointed in myself but at the same time I don’t know if I want to continue on.

Sorry for the long self pity post. I just need to get the thoughts out there and see if it makes any sense.
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I think I felt the same way. I was prepared to fly to my check ride 1.5 hours away and fly back with a bust, haha. I passed.
 
Palmpilot said:
Here's an online trainer that lets you spin the knob and see the results:

http://www.luizmonteiro.com/learning_vor_sim.aspx
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Yeah that still won't help when the test is a photo and the answer is a) turn clockwise b) turn counter clockwise etc. That has to be the most ridiculous question ever put on a test. Hopefully that one is gone now. d) turn it whichever way gets me to the number I'm trying to set!!!

There were enough 'trick' questions when I took it to count on throwing at least 2 questions out the window(that you knew the answer to).

The test center didn't help me out either, they gave me the wrong revision of the supplement, I didn't even have the right pictures to match the test questions. By the time I figured that out and that I wasn't crazy, I was an hour in and got to go back and review all my answers with the CORRECT pictures. Darn, why am I not seeing that town on the chart that they're asking about (BECAUSE ITS NOT THERE!) I'm not bitter still. :)
 
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