Seeking Accelerated Multi Engine Training

robertb

robertb

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robertb
Hello all,
I am looking to get a multi-engine add-on. For scheduling reasons, I would prefer to get it done in a 3 or 4 day span. I'm in San Diego, DPEs are in tough to schedule, and our marine layer is keeping us IFR quite a bit lately. Anyone have a place I can head for a little training trip and checkride? Southwestern states are preferred but traveling to another destination can be done too.

Any thoughts, info or feedback is appreciated!
 
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I’m in process of getting my multi add-on and I wouldn’t recommend rushing it. It’s a lot to learn and you will want to understand the concepts. For me, it’s a lot trying to do a morning and afternoon flight in a single day, I was going to do it one day but opted not too after the morning session. It was too much for me. I couldn’t imagine doing that for 3/4 days in a row, plus understanding the concepts and implementing them well enough to pass the checkride.

My thoughts.
 
i would get some multi time first just to get some familiarity with it. Then finish in an accelerated program if you want. On the east coast when I was looking in to it - D&J Aviation (orlando apopka airport - about 20 miles NW of orlando) - staff is excellent and run well. They have a scheduled DPE on site every friday after the monday to thursday sessions (you go 7am to 2pm), 3-4 hours flying and 2ish hours ground. All done in piper seminoles. Craft in Charleston also has accelerated multi classes. I believe they run theirs on Diamond. Hanover in Richmond runs an accelerated multi program on Tecnams. Im sure there are plenty of others but I ended up going to D&J. Absolutely loved it. DPE is super nice, tough but fair.
 
Thanks for the thoughts so far gang! I understand the concern regarding knocking it out quickly. I have some exposure to twins already and feel pretty good about focusing on the needed tasks. I just finished my commercial single and want to knock out the multi while the data in my head is still fresh. BTW - I had a blast doing the commercial stuff and really enjoyed it. It may have been a bit easier for me since it was in our own plane and I was very familiar with it. Hmmmm. Perhaps I need to by a 310 or Baron? ;)
 
I can recommend action air, but they are in Groton CT
 
I did mine at CRAFT in Charleston SC. They will schedule the DPE and then back schedule your training. It’s a DA-42 NG and they’re not the cheapest but it’s a professionally run outfit and good training.
 
I did mine in 7 hours over the course of two days, for a whopping $1400. It was $1700 last I checked (Edit: Holy crap it's up to $3500!). And you can say you flew with Tom Brady!

Traverse Air, in an Apache. It was very efficient training, every flight is essentially a mock checkride, just with more or less of a focus on various things. For example, early on a flight will have more of a focus on maneuvers and engine failures/restarts, while later on when you have that stuff down you might do more single engine approaches. But, it works well and the checkride feels like just another flight.

I didn't feel at all like I needed more than the two days. They send a training packet out beforehand, and you just study it on your own.
 
Search for Multi Engine rating. Call the schools and see about the DPE scheduling. Some have somewhat captive ones.
 
jsstevens said:
I did mine at CRAFT in Charleston SC. They will schedule the DPE and then back schedule your training. It’s a DA-42 NG and they’re not the cheapest but it’s a professionally run outfit and good training.
Click to expand...

I second CRAFT. Did my accelerated instrument with them a couple of weeks ago and going back on June 17th for my accelerated commercial. After that I will be going back a third time for my CFI. Very nice structured company.
 
edessa said:
I second CRAFT. Did my accelerated instrument with them a couple of weeks ago and going back on June 17th for my accelerated commercial. After that I will be going back a third time for my CFI. Very nice structured company.
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Likewise on IR and commercial. Highly recommended.
 
not sure if I went to the right CRAFT website or not, I think I did......so imma just leave this here for it to speak for itself

upload_2023-6-6_18-55-46.png

but people are vouching for it so who am I to think what I'm thinking right now.......
 
Is high performance based on total HP? So if you have 2x160hp engines that would require a HP endorsement? Is there any benefit to having the MEI give another complex and HP endorsement (even if you already have one)?
 
eman1200 said:
not sure if I went to the right CRAFT website or not, I think I did......so imma just leave this here for it to speak for itself

View attachment 117823

but people are vouching for it so who am I to think what I'm thinking right now.......
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It’s not the cheapest but it is a very well run organization with a good fleet of planes and good instructors. I’ve done IR, commercial and multi there. If money is the big driver this is probably not the school for you.

And I’ll add, I went there to fly the DA-40 NG and DA-42 NG.
 
jsstevens said:
It’s not the cheapest but it is a very well run organization with a good fleet of planes and good instructors. I’ve done IR, commercial and multi there. If money is the big driver this is probably not the school for you.

And I’ll add, I went there to fly the DA-40 NG and DA-42 NG.
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it took me 6 hours to get my multi at a "very well run org with a good fleet of planes and good instructors" which included the checkride and it cost me less than half of that and that also included the checkride fee. so tack on another $7-1000 on top of their already absolutely insane fee and yeah, price is no doubt a concern lol. at their rate it would have cost me over $1500/hour. but I guess you were probably throwing lit $100 bills out the window on your way to your training at craft.

I'm just gonna throw this out there and be wrong if I'm wrong, but going to this place and paying that fee for multi is probably the worst possible route you can go that I'm aware of.
 
mandm said:
Is high performance based on total HP? So if you have 2x160hp engines that would require a HP endorsement?
Click to expand...
No.
(f) Additional training required for operating high-performance airplanes. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (f)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a high-performance airplane (an airplane with an engine of more than 200 horsepower), unless the person has - ...
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So you do not add the horsepower from all the engines together. Regardless of number of engines, high-performance from FAA perspective means at least one engine of 201 horsepower or greater.
 
eman1200 said:
it took me 6 hours to get my multi at a "very well run org with a good fleet of planes and good instructors" which included the checkride and it cost me less than half of that and that also included the checkride fee. so tack on another $7-1000 on top of their already absolutely insane fee and yeah, price is no doubt a concern lol. at their rate it would have cost me over $1500/hour. but I guess you were probably throwing lit $100 bills out the window on your way to your training at craft.

I'm just gonna throw this out there and be wrong if I'm wrong, but going to this place and paying that fee for multi is probably the worst possible route you can go that I'm aware of.
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Out of curiosity when did you do your training at the cost you paid?
 
edessa said:
Out of curiosity when did you do your training at the cost you paid?
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good question.....12/5-6 2020

but if u went to craft today as you were flying over NC you'd pass a half dozen places that are still in that price range.
 
When I was searching for a accelerated program, I called around the country to several training centers. I would say half never returned my calls/emails and the other half didn’t answer my questions to my satisfaction other than CRAFT. To me personally, cost was not the only driving factor in selecting a training facility.
Their IR and CPL courses were in line cost wise with what I was seeing around the country but the time was shorter than most and the quality of aircraft was better.
 
eman1200 said:
good question.....12/5-6 2020

but if u went to craft today as you were flying over NC you'd pass a half dozen places that are still in that price range.
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In your other message you sis yours was “$7-1000” less. I assume there’s a typo there and you meant $7,100 less? So your multi was $1,100? CRAFT was and is $8,200 for the add on (including instrument and commercial as needed).
 
jsstevens said:
In your other message you sis yours was “$7-1000” less. I assume there’s a typo there and you meant $7,100 less? So your multi was $1,100? CRAFT was and is $8,200 for the add on (including instrument and commercial as needed).
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No, I said the craft quoted price does not include the checkride fee which they state is between $700 - $1000, so tack that on in addition to their $8100 fee.
 
eman1200 said:
No, I said the craft quoted price does not include the checkride fee which they state is between $700 - $1000, so tack that on in addition to their $8100 fee.
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So how much was yours? The 7-1000 less confused me.
 
jsstevens said:
So how much was yours? The 7-1000 less confused me.
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Mine was 4K which included the checkride.

Shouldn’t be confusing. Craft states $8100 and then states that does not include checkride which costs $700-1000. So on top of their 8100, add 700-1000 on top of that. Easy math.
 
Ah. I misunderstood you to say yours was 7-1000 less than craft not that you were also adding in the Checkride. Got it.

Maybe I need some coffee. Anyway I’m satisfied with the value I received at CRAFT. Certainly do your own research and cost. I wound up with 10 hours dual by the time I finished. So ~$800 per hour. And a $700 DPE fee. To fly a nearly new DA-42NG.
 
That is a high price.

I looked around for a place to go to do my MEI, which would make all my other CFI ratings active. I was finding prices about 1/2 those quoted by Craft. At $400 per hour, that is 20 hours.
 
I was wrong, it took me 7 hours not 6.
 
I had a bad experience with Groton. I ended up going with an independent MEI who was former military attack pilot.
 
Yep. "Fast" Eddie Lane. A friend and I went for our MEL on the same weekend. He tested with Eddie and had to re-take with very short notice a year later. He got a new rating instead which washed the sins away, but it was a real unpleasant situation all around.
 
https://www.lakesareaaviation.com/
KLXL Little Falls, MN

Jake has MEIs on staff and access to local DPEs with availability. I did my ME and CFII there and was happy with the service, but have no other reasons to recommend them as I'm not associated in any way. I believe they'll even arrange for a pickup from MSP if needed.
 
schmookeeg said:
Yep. "Fast" Eddie Lane. A friend and I went for our MEL on the same weekend. He tested with Eddie and had to re-take with very short notice a year later. He got a new rating instead which washed the sins away, but it was a real unpleasant situation all around.
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Yep, that's the one. A friend of mine took a ride with him and did the same thing (got another rating).

The saddest consequence of that, that I know of, was this: #18
 
I’m training in a PA30 Twin and it runs about $300/hr ($220/plane + $75/instructor + $8/fuel surcharge). Those accelerated programs include a certain amount of hours, I believe they have one for $3695 plus the checkride but it includes 9 hours, if you need more, you pay more. Multi’s have a lot of maintenance and scheduling DPE’s is not guaranteed (schedules, weather, etc).
 
mandm said:
scheduling DPE’s is not guaranteed (schedules, weather, etc).
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1) Look for a school that has a dedicated or priority for a DPE.
2) Schedule the training based on when the DPE can do the checkride. Basically schedule the checkride first, then plan the training to be just before that, with some slack for weather.
 
I just did some (tailwheel) training at Riggin Flight Service in Madison, South Dakota. The owner is a DPE and he maintains a fleet of Piper Apaches, specializes in accelerated training, and offers an affordable boarding house for long-term students. Friendly, small town 'part 61 cowboy' operation that attracts pilots from all over the place.
 
robertb said:
Hello all,
I am looking to get a multi-engine add-on. For scheduling reasons, I would prefer to get it done in a 3 or 4 day span. I'm in San Diego, DPEs are in tough to schedule, and our marine layer is keeping us IFR quite a bit lately. Anyone have a place I can head for a little training trip and checkride? Southwestern states are preferred but traveling to another destination can be done too.

Any thoughts, info or feedback is appreciated!
Click to expand...
I can recommend www.multi-engine.com
They provide a dedicated instructor, you get mock check rides from a former DPE, they have a full-time mechanic on site, you train in Tucson (almost always sunny), they schedule the Examiner when you register for the 3 day course.
 
robertb said:
Hello all,
I am looking to get a multi-engine add-on. For scheduling reasons, I would prefer to get it done in a 3 or 4 day span. I'm in San Diego, DPEs are in tough to schedule, and our marine layer is keeping us IFR quite a bit lately. Anyone have a place I can head for a little training trip and checkride? Southwestern states are preferred but traveling to another destination can be done too.

Any thoughts, info or feedback is appreciated!
Click to expand...
Dear Robert, I have a six seater Piper Seneca II up in the Inland Empire area. I just retired from my Corporate flying job and looking to do advanced Multi-Engine cross country training. Please keep me in mind if you want to fly to Mexico or any other fun place! I have a YouTube video at Capt.Robert”ThatGuy”Riter called Fly Mexico if you would like to watch it. Hope you got your multi engine rating! God Bless!
 
ColinD said:
I just did some (tailwheel) training at Riggin Flight Service in Madison, South Dakota. The owner is a DPE and he maintains a fleet of Piper Apaches, specializes in accelerated training, and offers an affordable boarding house for long-term students. Friendly, small town 'part 61 cowboy' operation that attracts pilots from all over the place.
Click to expand...
Dear Colin, That school sounds amazing! I am a retired corporate pilot that has flown as a bush pilot in Mexico for several years. I have a Piper Seneca II, six seater, turbo charged, and glass cockpit. Looking to train the next group of aviators to go into class B airports (LAS Vegas, San Diego, etc), do boarder crossings, and bush flying techniques for unimproved dirt runways. I have a video on YouTube at Capt.Robert”thatguy”Riter if you want to watch. Glad to see another aviator referring to us as “Cowboys!” I would only add “Stubborn, Dumb, and Brave Cowboys!” God Bless!
 
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